GT3 prices going up
Discussion
ChrisW. said:
Which puts more pressure on 991.1 GT3's ... although the Porsche extended warranty can be maintained to 15 years ...
That’s only 4 years left for the early ones, potential expensive fix after that.I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.
Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 17th January 12:05
Youforreal. said:
That’s only 4 years left for the early ones, potential expensive fix after that.
I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.
I think they will ultimately be worth less than 20 year old 996/7 GT3's ...a car without known engine issues.I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.
Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 17th January 12:05
Compare that to a 15 year old car with known engine issues.
The 991.1 no longer has age on it's side.
Andyoz said:
Youforreal. said:
That’s only 4 years left for the early ones, potential expensive fix after that.
I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.
I think they will ultimately be worth less than 20 year old 996/7 GT3's ...a car without known engine issues.I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.
Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 17th January 12:05
Compare that to a 15 year old car with known engine issues.
The 991.1 no longer has age on it's side.
FrancisA said:
Andyoz said:
Youforreal. said:
That’s only 4 years left for the early ones, potential expensive fix after that.
I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.
I think they will ultimately be worth less than 20 year old 996/7 GT3's ...a car without known engine issues.I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.
Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 17th January 12:05
Compare that to a 15 year old car with known engine issues.
The 991.1 no longer has age on it's side.
But might this be possible ? Maybe worth an ask ??
ChrisW. said:
FrancisA said:
Andyoz said:
Youforreal. said:
That’s only 4 years left for the early ones, potential expensive fix after that.
I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.
I think they will ultimately be worth less than 20 year old 996/7 GT3's ...a car without known engine issues.I can see them being pushed down to the 60k mark at that point not because they are only worth that but because of the issues that particular generation has had.
Edited by Youforreal. on Friday 17th January 12:05
Compare that to a 15 year old car with known engine issues.
The 991.1 no longer has age on it's side.
But might this be possible ? Maybe worth an ask ??
Brighton Speed said:
Purely from the business angle of Hartech, I'd imagine this is exactly what they're researching right now, as this is their potential next big market. So yes, have a chat, and if that's the case buy the dip and you probably can't go wrong.
Are there enough 991.1 GT3s in the UK, or being driven regularly, to make it a big market?Discombobulate said:
Brighton Speed said:
Purely from the business angle of Hartech, I'd imagine this is exactly what they're researching right now, as this is their potential next big market. So yes, have a chat, and if that's the case buy the dip and you probably can't go wrong.
Are there enough 991.1 GT3s in the UK, or being driven regularly, to make it a big market?Discombobulate said:
Brighton Speed said:
Purely from the business angle of Hartech, I'd imagine this is exactly what they're researching right now, as this is their potential next big market. So yes, have a chat, and if that's the case buy the dip and you probably can't go wrong.
Are there enough 991.1 GT3s in the UK, or being driven regularly, to make it a big market?There are 1000's or 10000's of vanilla 9x6 and 9x7 cars. That's a big market.
I tend to agree. Most 996 / 997.1 owners are going for power/capacity upgrades for their £15k ish ... GT3 owners stay the same (or slightly less) for £25k ?
How many secondhand 991.2 engines and ECU's could be found ? And would that be an option ?
How many 991.1 GT3's are actually going to need engine replacements when regular oil changes and extra care when cool may be the answer ?
But at what price level is the risk / fear worth taking a chance ??
Could a tuned / stroked 981 engine be made to work ? DeMan ?
How many secondhand 991.2 engines and ECU's could be found ? And would that be an option ?
How many 991.1 GT3's are actually going to need engine replacements when regular oil changes and extra care when cool may be the answer ?
But at what price level is the risk / fear worth taking a chance ??
Could a tuned / stroked 981 engine be made to work ? DeMan ?
Edited by ChrisW. on Friday 17th January 22:28
Tinkering with engines is getting extremely costly. All these GT engines have petty expensive parts; not least titanium con rods. IIRC a single piston and liner off a Mezger is circa £2,000. Varicam adjusters about £1,100 each.
On a Mezger, when you open it up and throw ‘X’ components in, you get ‘Y’ results.
With the 991.1 engine, even in G revision, that’s simply not something that’s easy to discern.
On a Mezger, when you open it up and throw ‘X’ components in, you get ‘Y’ results.
With the 991.1 engine, even in G revision, that’s simply not something that’s easy to discern.
Digga said:
Tinkering with engines is getting extremely costly. All these GT engines have petty expensive parts; not least titanium con rods. IIRC a single piston and liner off a Mezger is circa £2,000. Varicam adjusters about £1,100 each.
On a Mezger, when you open it up and throw ‘X’ components in, you get ‘Y’ results.
With the 991.1 engine, even in G revision, that’s simply not something that’s easy to discern.
Yes, I just think it's a massive jump for say Hartech to go from fixing 'consumer' Porsche engines to Motorsport ones. Is a rock solid fix for the 991.1 GT3 engine even possible....Porsche themselves didn't seem to get there totally (until the .2) and they have the corporate power to back it all while they tried.On a Mezger, when you open it up and throw ‘X’ components in, you get ‘Y’ results.
With the 991.1 engine, even in G revision, that’s simply not something that’s easy to discern.
Would Hartech be prepared to expose themselves to that liability.
Be interesting knowing if my October 2014 991.1 GT3 is still on the original engine. It benefited from a revised factory engine on the production line being stored for a few months until the new ones arrived.
I ran it in religiously no short runs quality fuel etc and sold it in late 2015.
DE64 MJX.
Porsche issued an additional 12 months warranty in addition to the standard 2 year warranty at that time as part of the overall compensation package owners received comprising a quality new unlimited mileage loaner (Cayman GTS PDK for c6 months) and £1500 a month for those with delivered cars.
I ran it in religiously no short runs quality fuel etc and sold it in late 2015.
DE64 MJX.
Porsche issued an additional 12 months warranty in addition to the standard 2 year warranty at that time as part of the overall compensation package owners received comprising a quality new unlimited mileage loaner (Cayman GTS PDK for c6 months) and £1500 a month for those with delivered cars.
Andyoz said:
Digga said:
Tinkering with engines is getting extremely costly. All these GT engines have petty expensive parts; not least titanium con rods. IIRC a single piston and liner off a Mezger is circa £2,000. Varicam adjusters about £1,100 each.
On a Mezger, when you open it up and throw ‘X’ components in, you get ‘Y’ results.
With the 991.1 engine, even in G revision, that’s simply not something that’s easy to discern.
Yes, I just think it's a massive jump for say Hartech to go from fixing 'consumer' Porsche engines to Motorsport ones. Is a rock solid fix for the 991.1 GT3 engine even possible....Porsche themselves didn't seem to get there totally (until the .2) and they have the corporate power to back it all while they tried.On a Mezger, when you open it up and throw ‘X’ components in, you get ‘Y’ results.
With the 991.1 engine, even in G revision, that’s simply not something that’s easy to discern.
Would Hartech be prepared to expose themselves to that liability.
I do wonder if Hartech need to branch out or look to alternatives before the 996 and 997 market gets thinner. I've read some pieces about them working on higher capacity 991.1 engine options but that's about it. Once Porsche switched to turbo it's a very different ballgame of generally just adding boost.
ATM said:
I watched a Matt Armstrong rebuilding a new gt3rs and he purchased a replacement block from Porsche for 8 grand. That's just the bare block casing or is it in 2 pieces so 1 for each bank.
Yes, that’s right, so £16k for a pair of blocks; 3 cylinders in each. No liners or pistons included in that.The MITIGATION for 991.1 GT3 engines is routine inspections of finger followers and camshaft’s, as IRRESPECTIVE of revision, the wear will eventually show up. It’s just what it is.
The reason for it is down to the architecture, the mechanics of the valve-train and the oiling system which was properly revised in the .2.
It’s not necessarily a curse… you just have to keep ahead of it.
Even the CGT has this type issue, but thats because it’s a race car engine… routine inspections required at set intervals.
I personally don't think any engine builder in their right mind would take on 991.1 GT3 engine rebuilds unless they make customers sign waivers… you’d get no guarantee, and no warranty. Builders wont want to be liable and customers want protection.
Therefore it wont happen, If it dies it dies.
The FIX… some shops worldwide are looking at .2 GT3 engine swaps. This would work out more effective than .1 engine rebuild.
The reason for it is down to the architecture, the mechanics of the valve-train and the oiling system which was properly revised in the .2.
It’s not necessarily a curse… you just have to keep ahead of it.
Even the CGT has this type issue, but thats because it’s a race car engine… routine inspections required at set intervals.
I personally don't think any engine builder in their right mind would take on 991.1 GT3 engine rebuilds unless they make customers sign waivers… you’d get no guarantee, and no warranty. Builders wont want to be liable and customers want protection.
Therefore it wont happen, If it dies it dies.
The FIX… some shops worldwide are looking at .2 GT3 engine swaps. This would work out more effective than .1 engine rebuild.
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