997.1 prices starting to go up

997.1 prices starting to go up

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NS_London

Original Poster:

4 posts

10 months

Monday 10th May
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Dear all, sorry for the double entry, I thought I might have started a discussion in the wrong place the first time around.
It looks like prices for good example of early 997.1 C2S with app. 50/60k miles have increased by almost £5000 over the last 18 months. Am I correct? What is your view on the current price vs. future price, are the prices going to stabilize as they are today, or they will go down again resuming the depreciation curve?
I read in another forum a comment saying that the 997.1 will be eventually a £20,000 car in the future. Would you agree even for a well sorted, engine rebuild?
Thanks all.

shantybeater

1,025 posts

136 months

Monday 10th May
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No idea if they will end up a 20k car, in a way, wouldn’t it be a good thing? We can start enjoying cars rather than investing in them...

The price hike is way beyond 997’s, the whole sports car market is up, which I suspect is due to a mixture of spare cash from holidays/not going down the pub, to the whole YOLO philosophy coming out of the back of a deadly pandemic.

Once the furlough stops, and the impact really hits, I suspect we will see an adjustment.

Chemical Ali

571 posts

184 months

Monday 10th May
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Spot on. Spare cash being spent will run out after causing inflation which will raise interest rates which will cause these prices to come down. Be patient the reset is coming.

g7jhp

6,576 posts

205 months

Tuesday 11th May
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We've been here before.

The sad thing is 3.2 Carrera's, 964's etc were once cheap 911's now they're the same car just 3 or 4 times the price making them unaffordable for most, especially when you factor that most need money spent to bring them up to scratch.

Some will say it's good as it makes them worth spending money on. In my book it just makes them more expensive, you still have to spend money on them.

Get a 997.1 whilst they're affordable and drive it, it's not an investment and any upside may cover some of your running costs.

If you have one enjoy it and drive it whilst you can as more people are switching to EVs.

brake fader

90 posts

2 months

Tuesday 11th May
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I think the prices will stay the steadily on the the up with dealers also pushing up prices all the time, these cars along with the 996 are becoming classic and good ones being snapped up, time is now limited on manufacturing petrol cars this also affects the numbers of cars left, ford cortina's are passing hands for up to 10k for basic models and there were millions of those made,so a 911 will sit as a highly desirable asset in the future.I have 3 mates that have now bought a 996-997 in the last year for this reason as well as the sunday blast out of coarse.

nunpuncher

2,272 posts

92 months

Tuesday 11th May
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Very bottom of 997.1 prices 2 years ago was £20k. Its now c£23k. Inflation and a reflection of the car market in general. Prices of 997.2s, 996 and even 986 have all gone up along with everything else. If anything I would say that the 997.1 has seen one of the smallest increases in prices as a % of cost compared to some of the other cars.

If you like them and you want one to drive and enjoy then do it. Don't start thinking its an investment because it'll definitely cost you money to own one.

NS_London

Original Poster:

4 posts

10 months

Tuesday 11th May
quotequote all
Thank you all, interesting comments. I am not looking at making money in case I buy one, just trying to have a feel to where the prices could go back down again in the future, like £20k or less, to see what price I am happy to pay today.

Cheburator mk2

2,713 posts

166 months

Tuesday 11th May
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Just watched a 2005 (55) 997.1 S in Black, Grade 3 - means it's OK, but will need attention for small dings/scrapes or alloys - make £26.5k at BCA. Add fees in the region of £450 for most dealers.... 67k and 2 owners... So you think prices are going up? silly

olv

187 posts

182 months

Tuesday 11th May
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https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2006-porsche-9...

That one made £24k+6% yesterday which seems fair as a buyer and seller.

I still think that 997.1 prices will remain depressed for a while because people are too worried about the engines. 996s seem to be old enough now that either people seem to think that if the engine was going to have let go it would have done so by now or the cars are cheap enough that they're happy to take on the risk. 997s don't seem to have arrived there yet.

I still think that with patience and canny buying you can get a really nice one for low £20s. It would have to be an absolute minter with reputable engine rebuild to pay anything approaching £30k.

Cheburator mk2

2,713 posts

166 months

Tuesday 11th May
quotequote all
olv said:
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2006-porsche-9...

That one made £24k+6% yesterday which seems fair as a buyer and seller.

I still think that 997.1 prices will remain depressed for a while because people are too worried about the engines. 996s seem to be old enough now that either people seem to think that if the engine was going to have let go it would have done so by now or the cars are cheap enough that they're happy to take on the risk. 997s don't seem to have arrived there yet.

I still think that with patience and canny buying you can get a really nice one for low £20s. It would have to be an absolute minter with reputable engine rebuild to pay anything approaching £30k.
Under nornal circumstances, i would agree with your sound logic, but it doesn't add up at present. Most Porsches that went through BCA today made very strong money. Well above CAP (Glass) clean. This is at an online auction, which stacks them high and sells them... expensive... If a dealer is paying £26k+ for a 2005 2S which needs work to make it presentable for sale, how do you expect to find a decent one for low 20s? Bear in mind, the dealer is buying it unseen with no comeback to BCA with regards to scored bores etc... The inflation in sports car prices due to pent up demand, savings and lack of decent stock is crazy.

Before you shoot me down, I am not a dealer... And yes, I would not mind to add a 997.1 S to my small stable - I like the purity of the design and at low 20s the cars were an absolute steal...


ArchiesDad

158 posts

13 months

Wednesday 12th May
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I’d say £5K was a fairly accurate guesstimate !

A mate of mine offered me £30k for mine 12 months ago, slightly over what he thought it was worth because of spec, colour and options added by the previous owner new.

I spoke to him last week and he asked if £35K would buy it ? I have to admit I’m tempted but the hole it left wouldn’t be filled with anything other than a GT3 again in 997.1 guise. Is it twice the car at £75K...... me personally I think it is ! Ceramics, carbon buckets a cage and the Metzger !

Looking at comparable cars there’s a few at £32,500 that need a few bits to bring them up to mine. Some around £35K

He’s just sold his house and it went over the asking by exactly £35,000, so as everyone has said so far in the thread. Everything’s going up ! The furlough debate is as ill conceived as the self destructing IMS, the leaky RMS and the dreaded Bore scoring debate ! It affects some but not everyone, I’ve not been on furlough no ones given me any money thro the pandemic as I’ve just been at work and my engines not eaten itself !

By the hight of summer all the best examples will be gone and the rubbish ones left on the shelf and written off examples put back on the road will re emerge and they’ll be wanting top dollar.

macky17

2,060 posts

156 months

Wednesday 12th May
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Just bought a minty mint 2008 manual c2s with 50k and aero for 32k. Too high/low? Dunno. I doubt it will lose much. I will be driving the heck out of it either way.

AyBee

9,488 posts

169 months

Wednesday 12th May
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Cheburator mk2 said:
olv said:
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2006-porsche-9...

That one made £24k+6% yesterday which seems fair as a buyer and seller.

I still think that 997.1 prices will remain depressed for a while because people are too worried about the engines. 996s seem to be old enough now that either people seem to think that if the engine was going to have let go it would have done so by now or the cars are cheap enough that they're happy to take on the risk. 997s don't seem to have arrived there yet.

I still think that with patience and canny buying you can get a really nice one for low £20s. It would have to be an absolute minter with reputable engine rebuild to pay anything approaching £30k.
Under nornal circumstances, i would agree with your sound logic, but it doesn't add up at present. Most Porsches that went through BCA today made very strong money. Well above CAP (Glass) clean. This is at an online auction, which stacks them high and sells them... expensive... If a dealer is paying £26k+ for a 2005 2S which needs work to make it presentable for sale, how do you expect to find a decent one for low 20s? Bear in mind, the dealer is buying it unseen with no comeback to BCA with regards to scored bores etc... The inflation in sports car prices due to pent up demand, savings and lack of decent stock is crazy.

Before you shoot me down, I am not a dealer... And yes, I would not mind to add a 997.1 S to my small stable - I like the purity of the design and at low 20s the cars were an absolute steal...
What staggers me about this, is that were I to have a bore scored 911, the simplest way to get rid of it, would be to do a WBAC or trade in against another car. Where is that car then likely to end up? Yep, BCA...

Audis5b9

322 posts

39 months

Thursday 13th May
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AyBee said:
What staggers me about this, is that were I to have a bore scored 911, the simplest way to get rid of it, would be to do a WBAC or trade in against another car. Where is that car then likely to end up? Yep, BCA...
If a car has had bore scoring, then an engine rebuild, how will the value sit afterwards?

Is there a risk of it happening again? Whats the cause (sorry 997 newbie...)

Magnum 475

2,409 posts

99 months

Friday 14th May
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Audis5b9 said:
If a car has had bore scoring, then an engine rebuild, how will the value sit afterwards?

Is there a risk of it happening again? Whats the cause (sorry 997 newbie...)
Risk of happening again? Depends on who did the rebuild and what was done. 6 new liners / pistons from Hartech and a closed deck added, no risk at all. Dodgy Dave's back-street engine rebuilder who's shoved some random cylinder liner in - good luck (you're going to need it).

If it's had the full Hartech rebuild, it's not going to score its bores.

Cause: complicated, but can be summarised as the later engines having plastic coating on the pistons that breaks down and pulls chunks of silcon(?) out of the cylinder walls, that then scratch the bores. Earlier engines used a ferrous coating on the pistons and didn't have this problem.


ArchiesDad

158 posts

13 months

Wednesday 19th May
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Just to add some figures on this, I WBAC’d mine in May 2019 as I was insuring it. I screen shotted the quote, £19.745
Well below what I thought it was worth at the time as I paid £30k for it.

Fast forward to to day 19th May 2021 WBAC quote £28.445.
If that’s a what they are willing to pay for it presumably a dealer will purchase from BCA and pay fees then add a warranty and want to make a profit.

Interestingly I paid £22,500 in November 2019 for a Tiguan R Line Bi-Turbo 240 BHP
Two years later having had 2 free services and and two free MOT’s I’ve just been given a quote of £23,850 ?
So it would appear that everything’s going up. Little point selling as with houses, mines gone up a fair bit since I’ve owned it but so has everyone else’s !




YoungMD

323 posts

87 months

Tuesday 25th May
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So I paid £20k for my 997.1 C2S in 2015, private purchase but seem to remember many being around that Mark then. They have then seemed to stay that price ever since with a fee dropping below the 20k with high miles a couple of years ago....

It's now a bit of a shocker that they actually seem to be rising, at a historic classics auction a low miles 20k one sold for over £45k what with all the engine drama talk I never thought that would happen.

Anyway I can report they are fantastic cars......

jonny996

2,332 posts

184 months

Tuesday 25th May
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i remember reading the exact same thread a couple of years ago about the 996, regardless of purchase price there was a school of thought that you needed £20K to get a good one, be it buy at £20K or buy at £15K & spend £5K.
Since then the 996 seems to gaining a bit more classic status over cheap 911 status that it had.
I am not sure if Porsche has officially named the 997 as a classic yet (it has 996) but I cant see the prices dropping any time soon & the price difference between a good one & a not so good one only growing.
IMHO I still see a good 997.1 being £5-8K over a good 996 & I say that as a 996 enthusiast

olv

187 posts

182 months

Friday 28th May
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https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-87---2005-...

<£17k for a sub-100k mile, running 997S.

ArchiesDad

158 posts

13 months

Saturday 29th May
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That’s a cheap car, Sport Design steering wheel, Chrono and manual !

I put into We Buy any Car that reg, 85.000 miles FSH & 4 owners it came up with £22.5K

Seems there’s a gap in the market here ?
6K profit for driving to a site to hand over the car, keys and log book ?