Where are all the 997.1 GT3s
Discussion
ellesmereFNC said:
Hi, car i'm looking at today is a clubsport but has H&R coilovers...good thing or bad thing? I guess it might of been a trackway weapon, also has PCCB's which i'm a bit scared of...guess will just see how it looks and drives.
PCCB’s are great on road. They are a larger diameter steels, so even if (like me) you decide to switch out the discs for safe keeping and go with steel rotors, you have better stopping power on track.H&R less common/popular than KW but still a decent brand. Not sure I know too much about them though.
Digga said:
ellesmereFNC said:
Hi, car i'm looking at today is a clubsport but has H&R coilovers...good thing or bad thing? I guess it might of been a trackway weapon, also has PCCB's which i'm a bit scared of...guess will just see how it looks and drives.
PCCB’s are great on road. They are a larger diameter steels, so even if (like me) you decide to switch out the discs for safe keeping and go with steel rotors, you have better stopping power on track.H&R less common/popular than KW but still a decent brand. Not sure I know too much about them though.
I never had an issue with the stock Gen 1 997 suspension on the road, so if you don’t like the H&R’s, I’d revert to stock, or be prepared to open your wallet for an expensive upgrade.
IbanezDan said:
Get a pic! What’s the full spec? Colour?
I saw a cobalt blue clubsport back in 2019 I think it was with pccbs for sale at BMW sytner. Can’t be many around…
Didn't get a picture, it is a Cobalt blue car, clubsport, plastic dash and no, chrono, thought I recognised it and i was right it was / is the Ashgoods car that was up a few weeks ago, so a sort of dealer exchange thing. They also have a993 and 718 gt4.I saw a cobalt blue clubsport back in 2019 I think it was with pccbs for sale at BMW sytner. Can’t be many around…
For me it was set up too hard on the H&R's, very very firm, not that it tried to bounce you off the road just too much for a car to tour in which is what i'm after and I wouldn't want to start fiddling with the dampers.
search continues...but i think Cobalt is they way to go for me.
Digga said:
No need for that harshness.
FWIW, despite riding flatter and having better body control - dive and roll - Tractives are more compliant in the standard/ road PASM setting than the OEM Bilsteins.
Agree, for touring, you’d be better with stock suspension than track biased passive shocks.
Morning Marcus, hope you’re well ?FWIW, despite riding flatter and having better body control - dive and roll - Tractives are more compliant in the standard/ road PASM setting than the OEM Bilsteins.
Agree, for touring, you’d be better with stock suspension than track biased passive shocks.
Not suggesting to the contrary with regards to how compliant your Tractive set up is, but one has to ask how many miles had your old OE Bilsteins done ?
As a bit like the swap from 5 year old, 25,000 mile, almost down to the canvas PS2’s to brand new PS 4S, the difference is going to be massive, so perhaps the comparison is a little unfair.
I know on the three occasions I’ve fitted refurbished OE Bilsteins and new springs on my various 996 GT3’s, the stock set up is wonderfully compliant (especially when compared to the tired dampers that came off prior to refurbishment)
I think I’d be investing £1500-2000 in a fresh set of OE springs and an OE damper refurb if the car is primarily going to be used for touring purposes, rather than automatically chucking £7K ? at a full on Tractive set up.
(and that’s from someone who’s a damper fetishist !!
Slippydiff said:
Digga said:
No need for that harshness.
FWIW, despite riding flatter and having better body control - dive and roll - Tractives are more compliant in the standard/ road PASM setting than the OEM Bilsteins.
Agree, for touring, you’d be better with stock suspension than track biased passive shocks.
Morning Marcus, hope you’re well ?FWIW, despite riding flatter and having better body control - dive and roll - Tractives are more compliant in the standard/ road PASM setting than the OEM Bilsteins.
Agree, for touring, you’d be better with stock suspension than track biased passive shocks.
Not suggesting to the contrary with regards to how compliant your Tractive set up is, but one has to ask how many miles had your old OE Bilsteins done ?
As a bit like the swap from 5 year old, 25,000 mile, almost down to the canvas PS2’s to brand new PS 4S, the difference is going to be massive, so perhaps the comparison is a little unfair.
I know on the three occasions I’ve fitted refurbished OE Bilsteins and new springs on my various 996 GT3’s, the stock set up is wonderfully compliant (especially when compared to the tired dampers that came off prior to refurbishment)
I think I’d be investing £1500-2000 in a fresh set of OE springs and an OE damper refurb if the car is primarily going to be used for touring purposes, rather than automatically chucking £7K ? at a full on Tractive set up.
(and that’s from someone who’s a damper fetishist !!
Tractives are staggering, but for road the OE setup is very, very good. A friend who’s worked on (ordinary) road car chassis setup rode in it (stock) and commented how nicely a 997 GT3 works on road.
The beauty of Tractives is the added tunabilty but on road the costs stretch the benefits.
ellesmereFNC said:
Didn't get a picture, it is a Cobalt blue car, clubsport, plastic dash and no, chrono, thought I recognised it and i was right it was / is the Ashgoods car that was up a few weeks ago, so a sort of dealer exchange thing. They also have a 993 and 718 gt4.
For me it was set up too hard on the H&R's, very very firm, not that it tried to bounce you off the road just too much for a car to tour in which is what i'm after and I wouldn't want to start fiddling with the dampers.
search continues...but i think Cobalt is they way to go for me.
Love Cobalt! Where has the car been moved too from Ashgood? For me it was set up too hard on the H&R's, very very firm, not that it tried to bounce you off the road just too much for a car to tour in which is what i'm after and I wouldn't want to start fiddling with the dampers.
search continues...but i think Cobalt is they way to go for me.
ellesmereFNC said:
Didn't get a picture, it is a Cobalt blue car, clubsport, plastic dash and no, chrono, thought I recognised it and i was right it was / is the Ashgoods car that was up a few weeks ago, so a sort of dealer exchange thing. They also have a993 and 718 gt4.
For me it was set up too hard on the H&R's, very very firm, not that it tried to bounce you off the road just too much for a car to tour in which is what i'm after and I wouldn't want to start fiddling with the dampers.
search continues...but i think Cobalt is they way to go for me.
If the rest of the car is good, I would go for it. Coilovers are easy fix. Might even be just the current settings! For me it was set up too hard on the H&R's, very very firm, not that it tried to bounce you off the road just too much for a car to tour in which is what i'm after and I wouldn't want to start fiddling with the dampers.
search continues...but i think Cobalt is they way to go for me.
There aren’t many 997 GT3s to start with, even fewer to choose from after discounting cars with ‘stories’ , and being specific about colour / specs etc
Unless you are looking for one without cage (for touring)?
BrotherMouzone said:
If the rest of the car is good, I would go for it. Coilovers are easy fix. Might even be just the current settings!
There aren’t many 997 GT3s to start with, even fewer to choose from after discounting cars with ‘stories’ , and being specific about colour / specs etc
Unless you are looking for one without cage (for touring)?
As I said before, you can remove the cage and swap out the seats. The added benefit then is you have something far more saleable down the line. There aren’t many 997 GT3s to start with, even fewer to choose from after discounting cars with ‘stories’ , and being specific about colour / specs etc
Unless you are looking for one without cage (for touring)?
No sport chrono - bonus to me, it’s ugly and useless. Plastic dash, ok not as nice as a leather capped dash but it’s a GT3…
Honestly, I think if you want something more compliant I think you’re looking for the wrong car. GTS or stick with the GT4…
IbanezDan said:
As I said before, you can remove the cage and swap out the seats. The added benefit then is you have something far more saleable down the line.
No sport chrono - bonus to me, it’s ugly and useless. Plastic dash, ok not as nice as a leather capped dash but it’s a GT3…
Honestly, I think if you want something more compliant I think you’re looking for the wrong car. GTS or stick with the GT4…
I stopped short of saying that in the post I made earlier today ... but that’s pretty much what I thought.No sport chrono - bonus to me, it’s ugly and useless. Plastic dash, ok not as nice as a leather capped dash but it’s a GT3…
Honestly, I think if you want something more compliant I think you’re looking for the wrong car. GTS or stick with the GT4…
Alternatively I’d be knocking on the CSR Skunkworks at RPM Technik and asking them about building a 997 based CSR project. I can confirm they’re really rather good ...
Slippydiff said:
I stopped short of saying that in the post I made earlier today ... but that’s pretty much what I thought.
Alternatively I’d be knocking on the CSR Skunkworks at RPM Technik and asking them about building a 997 based CSR project. I can confirm they’re really rather good ...
When I started thinking about what I was going to get this was my first choice, 997.1 hopefully a cheap one that needed a engine rebuild and have a Hartech 4.1 done, respray something nice, full suspension refresh with Ohlins or KW. I wondered how close to a GT3 you’d get, I’m sure dynamically on the road pretty close…. But it’s never going to be a Mezger is it? Alternatively I’d be knocking on the CSR Skunkworks at RPM Technik and asking them about building a 997 based CSR project. I can confirm they’re really rather good ...
But for £50k you could build something quite special
Da Original Whyayedee said:
Slippydiff said:
I stopped short of saying that in the post I made earlier today ... but that’s pretty much what I thought.
Alternatively I’d be knocking on the CSR Skunkworks at RPM Technik and asking them about building a 997 based CSR project. I can confirm they’re really rather good ...
When I started thinking about what I was going to get this was my first choice, 997.1 hopefully a cheap one that needed a engine rebuild and have a Hartech 4.1 done, respray something nice, full suspension refresh with Ohlins or KW. I wondered how close to a GT3 you’d get, I’m sure dynamically on the road pretty close…. But it’s never going to be a Mezger is it? Alternatively I’d be knocking on the CSR Skunkworks at RPM Technik and asking them about building a 997 based CSR project. I can confirm they’re really rather good ...
But for £50k you could build something quite special
Sure they’re chock full of character all through the rev range, but unless you’re a trackday junkie or have the right roads to play on, the Mezger’s “charm” can wear thin.
I’ve tried most flavours, both N/A and Turbo, and whilst there’s no doubting they’re a brilliant piece of engineering, the replacement has moved the game on ...
Slippydiff said:
Da Original Whyayedee said:
Slippydiff said:
I stopped short of saying that in the post I made earlier today ... but that’s pretty much what I thought.
Alternatively I’d be knocking on the CSR Skunkworks at RPM Technik and asking them about building a 997 based CSR project. I can confirm they’re really rather good ...
When I started thinking about what I was going to get this was my first choice, 997.1 hopefully a cheap one that needed a engine rebuild and have a Hartech 4.1 done, respray something nice, full suspension refresh with Ohlins or KW. I wondered how close to a GT3 you’d get, I’m sure dynamically on the road pretty close…. But it’s never going to be a Mezger is it? Alternatively I’d be knocking on the CSR Skunkworks at RPM Technik and asking them about building a 997 based CSR project. I can confirm they’re really rather good ...
But for £50k you could build something quite special
Sure they’re chock full of character all through the rev range, but unless you’re a trackday junkie or have the right roads to play on, the Mezger’s “charm” can wear thin.
I’ve tried most flavours, both N/A and Turbo, and whilst there’s no doubting they’re a brilliant piece of engineering, the replacement has moved the game on ...
However, it not got much torque and really wants revs. There are a lot of people who feel they use their cars on the road, but there’s just no way to actually get the full experience without going on track, because you just cannot be 4,000 rpm minimum on any public road. Watch an on track video of any well driven 996/7 GT3 or RS and you can see this.
Digga said:
Slippydiff said:
Da Original Whyayedee said:
Slippydiff said:
I stopped short of saying that in the post I made earlier today ... but that’s pretty much what I thought.
Alternatively I’d be knocking on the CSR Skunkworks at RPM Technik and asking them about building a 997 based CSR project. I can confirm they’re really rather good ...
When I started thinking about what I was going to get this was my first choice, 997.1 hopefully a cheap one that needed a engine rebuild and have a Hartech 4.1 done, respray something nice, full suspension refresh with Ohlins or KW. I wondered how close to a GT3 you’d get, I’m sure dynamically on the road pretty close…. But it’s never going to be a Mezger is it? Alternatively I’d be knocking on the CSR Skunkworks at RPM Technik and asking them about building a 997 based CSR project. I can confirm they’re really rather good ...
But for £50k you could build something quite special
Sure they’re chock full of character all through the rev range, but unless you’re a trackday junkie or have the right roads to play on, the Mezger’s “charm” can wear thin.
I’ve tried most flavours, both N/A and Turbo, and whilst there’s no doubting they’re a brilliant piece of engineering, the replacement has moved the game on ...
However, it not got much torque and really wants revs. There are a lot of people who feel they use their cars on the road, but there’s just no way to actually get the full experience without going on track, because you just cannot be 4,000 rpm minimum on any public road. Watch an on track video of any well driven 996/7 GT3 or RS and you can see this.
The thing with 4,000 rpm plus, on public roads, is the speed that accompanies it.
With the best will in the world, public roads are more ‘random’ than a circuit. The variables greater; spilled diesel, horse muck, a newly blown out pothole, escaped livestock, middle aged bellends in Lycra….
With the best will in the world, public roads are more ‘random’ than a circuit. The variables greater; spilled diesel, horse muck, a newly blown out pothole, escaped livestock, middle aged bellends in Lycra….
Digga said:
The thing with 4,000 rpm plus, on public roads, is the speed that accompanies it.
With the best will in the world, public roads are more ‘random’ than a circuit. The variables greater; spilled diesel, horse muck, a newly blown out pothole, escaped livestock, middle aged bellends in Lycra….
Perfect summation M !!With the best will in the world, public roads are more ‘random’ than a circuit. The variables greater; spilled diesel, horse muck, a newly blown out pothole, escaped livestock, middle aged bellends in Lycra….
I agree, the Mezger is perfectly capable of road use, and on the right roads (over to you AndyOz) it’s a thing of wonderment, but the rest of the time, unless on track, it’s really rather wasted. I grant you it’s chock full of character, and all the better for it, but ultimately it is a detuned race engine that was made nicely streetable for those that choose that as it’s modus operandi.
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