991.1 GT3 - Advice on purchase

991.1 GT3 - Advice on purchase

Author
Discussion

throt

2,949 posts

152 months

Sunday 28th August
quotequote all
GT4RS said:
Spot on Grantstown, some of these older GT cars have a massive amount of owners, many in a short period of time. I’m lead to believe an OPC can only sell a used car if it has a certain amount of owners.

I personally wouldn’t consider a car with a high number of owners, one or two owners is the max for me personally.
It's weird, but do the one owner GT3's fetch a premium over multiple owned ones, it appears to not make much difference. Years back it would heavily effect the residual value.

But, yes, one owner cars will surely sell faster and better.

Deansfield

183 posts

86 months

Sunday 28th August
quotequote all
I also would rather have low mileage / owners car
BUT my first GT3 (996gen 2 )had 6 previous owners and was in wonderful condition, full opc history
Remember many owners are well off and change cars often, also the flippers in later models

Sport_Turismo_GTS

316 posts

11 months

Sunday 28th August
quotequote all
throt said:
It's weird, but do the one owner GT3's fetch a premium over multiple owned ones, it appears to not make much difference. Years back it would heavily effect the residual value.

But, yes, one owner cars will surely sell faster and better.
Last year when I sold my 20k mile, single owner 2014 991.1 GT3 to my OPC, it was one of the few one owner cars available for sale (or so they told me).

cowboyengineer

1,214 posts

96 months

Sunday 28th August
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I bought mine at 2 years old with 1100 miles on the clock. I was the 4th owner. Kept it for 18 months and sold it with 22000 miles on the clock. The guy who bought it did 5k in it and sold it. So that will now be at least a 6 owner car. You can ignore the first three owners as they were flippers

GT4RS

3,025 posts

179 months

Sunday 28th August
quotequote all
throt said:
GT4RS said:
Spot on Grantstown, some of these older GT cars have a massive amount of owners, many in a short period of time. I’m lead to believe an OPC can only sell a used car if it has a certain amount of owners.

I personally wouldn’t consider a car with a high number of owners, one or two owners is the max for me personally.
It's weird, but do the one owner GT3's fetch a premium over multiple owned ones, it appears to not make much difference. Years back it would heavily effect the residual value.

But, yes, one owner cars will surely sell faster and better.
I’m not sure a 2 owner car will sell for more than a 6 owner car, but it will definitely make selling process easier when the buyers start asking a million and one questions. A dealer will also use this to chip you on a px.

Like I say I personally wouldn’t buy a car with a lot of owners even if the first 4 were in a short period of time.

Each to their own I guess.

Gibbo205

2,974 posts

189 months

Monday 29th August
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Finance pending my five owner car including me sold yesterday, first guy to view it, he was totally blown away by it.

I purchased it for same reasons, condition, whether it is 1 owner or 10 owners I buy on condition and service history, supercars can swap hands often and regular as people try different cars or are just scratching an itch. As long as the condition is spot on for me its more important than mileage and amount of owners.

It is even still on its original engine, maybe its had an easy life which I think it has as I know owner 3 and 4 never tracked it, when I had a recent alignment the guy doing it noted how it had not been done before so it probably has done no track work previous to me or like me I don't abuse it on track, 1-2 laps warm up, no more than 15 minutes per session and 2+ laps cooling down.

The next owner of mine was not concerned about original engine, his response one it has warranty and he shall continue to extend it so when it does let go Porsche can drop a new motor in it, which was exactly my attitude as well. smile

bosshog

1,436 posts

258 months

Monday 29th August
quotequote all
I was looking at 991.1 gt3 from an OPC. When I enquired about the engine 10 year warranty , contrary to what folks are saying here. The OPC said the specific fix/new engine warranty will expire. You would then be under the (3rd party) standard Porsche extended warranty . How the extended warranty would view engine issues depends if they think it’s wear and tear or track use etc and definitely wouldn’t be dropping ina brand new engine possibly- no one has yet to try and claim.
Just food for thought.
I went with a GT4 in the end and love the mid engine setup

Gibbo205

2,974 posts

189 months

Monday 29th August
quotequote all
bosshog said:
I was looking at 991.1 gt3 from an OPC. When I enquired about the engine 10 year warranty , contrary to what folks are saying here. The OPC said the specific fix/new engine warranty will expire. You would then be under the (3rd party) standard Porsche extended warranty . How the extended warranty would view engine issues depends if they think it’s wear and tear or track use etc and definitely wouldn’t be dropping ina brand new engine possibly- no one has yet to try and claim.
Just food for thought.
I went with a GT4 in the end and love the mid engine setup
The 991.1 RS has the same engine issues and has no 10yr goodwill warranty and as such the claims are made under the extended third party warranty and there have been no issues with claims, I know a few gen 1 RS cars running replacement G series engines which were claimed for under extended warranty.

Stop trying to create a fear which does not exist, Porsche extended warranty covers the engine.

Shaoxter

3,696 posts

106 months

Monday 29th August
quotequote all
1. I would avoid any E engined cars, yes the later ones can still fail but I think the risk is significantly decreased.

2. GT3s always keep their money well. If you're lucky you might even make a profit (they were down to 80k at one point) but that ship has most likely sailed.

3. I would strongly recommend one with lift if you're going into London. Ride will be firmer than your current car but still perfectly useable. Cup2s aren't great in the wet/cold so if you're using it all year round you might want to get a spare set of wheels/tyres.

4. Definitely feels bigger, although you do get used to it. I much prefer the size and shape of the 997 tbh.

As some people have alluded to already, do not think the driving experience will be anything like your GTS. You will sacrifice a bit of usability and in return you get 9k rpm and a much more focused driving experience.

bosshog

1,436 posts

258 months

Monday 29th August
quotequote all
Gibbo205 said:
The 991.1 RS has the same engine issues and has no 10yr goodwill warranty and as such the claims are made under the extended third party warranty and there have been no issues with claims, I know a few gen 1 RS cars running replacement G series engines which were claimed for under extended warranty.

Stop trying to create a fear which does not exist, Porsche extended warranty covers the engine.
I’m not trying to create a ‘fear’ lol. Just sharing what I found out and I do t think it’s incorrect in terms of the 10 year warranty. I had no idea about the RS and that’s really good news so should put the OP mind at rest on this aspect. Had the OPC told me about the RS claims on the extended warranty I might had brought the 991.1

Edited by bosshog on Monday 29th August 21:38

av185

16,339 posts

109 months

Monday 29th August
quotequote all
Just a few salient points to add to other posters remarks some who have also owned a 991.1 GT3 amongst other GT3s including myself btw.

Lift is essential in London. Any 991 GT3 without lift is also worth around £2k less and harder to sell too.

Heated seats were available with all comfort seat options and the only bucket seat option the older folding buckets.

Low owner cars obviously sell for more money and any GT3 buyer who knows their market whether trade or retail will confirm this. Many buyers will not touch cars in excess of 3 owners including myself. There are a number of 991.2 GT3s around with in excess of 6 owners also 981 GT4s and Spyders together with 991.1 GT3s with similar number of owners and these cars ARE difficult sells. Private sales of 1 owner GT3s are distinctly sort after.

If you buy a car with an original engine and if it is a post May 2014 car chances are it could well have had a newer factory upgraded engine on the production line as was the case with my car which was delivered in October 2014. My OPC arranged a certificate to confirm this and upon sale the buyers paid a premium ££ for it because not just because it was 1 owner but it hadn't been sitting around outside an OPC awaiting the engine swap as was the case with 2013 and early 2014 cars a number of whichvwere damaged. Good certification to have with the cars history.

The GTS is no comparison whatsoever with the GT3 and is not meant to be.

If you buy the right car you will have relatively inexpensive motoring for such a capable car as the 991.1 GT3. The huge price gap between this and the 991.2 thereafter the 992 GT3 will ensure this as residuals between models are closely interlinked. Bear in mind the 992 GT3 is now £136k basic so 36% more expensive than the 991.1 with imminent price rises likely, these cars whilst having eased a bit are still selling for £225k plus, spec dependent, production is now severely restricted and residuals are therefore solid and guaranteed for many years to come all of which will reflect positively on the 991.1.

GT4RS

3,025 posts

179 months

Monday 29th August
quotequote all
av185 said:
Just a few salient points to add to other posters remarks some who have also owned a 991.1 GT3 amongst other GT3s including myself btw.

Lift is essential in London. Any 991 GT3 without lift is also worth around £2k less and harder to sell too.

Heated seats were available with all comfort seat options and the only bucket seat option the older folding buckets.

Low owner cars obviously sell for more money and any GT3 buyer who knows their market whether trade or retail will confirm this. Many buyers will not touch cars in excess of 3 owners including myself. There are a number of 991.2 GT3s around with in excess of 6 owners also 981 GT4s and Spyders together with 991.1 GT3s with similar number of owners and these cars ARE difficult sells. Private sales of 1 owner GT3s are distinctly sort after.

If you buy a car with an original engine and if it is a post May 2014 car chances are it could well have had a newer factory upgraded engine on the production line as was the case with my car which was delivered in October 2014. My OPC arranged a certificate to confirm this and upon sale the buyers paid a premium ££ for it because not just because it was 1 owner but it hadn't been sitting around outside an OPC awaiting the engine swap as was the case with 2013 and early 2014 cars a number of whichvwere damaged. Good certification to have with the cars history.

The GTS is no comparison whatsoever with the GT3 and is not meant to be.

If you buy the right car you will have relatively inexpensive motoring for such a capable car as the 991.1 GT3. The huge price gap between this and the 991.2 thereafter the 992 GT3 will ensure this as residuals between models are closely interlinked. Bear in mind the 992 GT3 is now £136k basic so 36% more expensive than the 991.1 with imminent price rises likely, these cars whilst having eased a bit are still selling for £225k plus, spec dependent, production is now severely restricted and residuals are therefore solid and guaranteed for many years to come all of which will reflect positively on the 991.1.
What’s odd is asking prices of 991.1 gt3 and 991.2 gt3 seem to be getting closer. It wasn’t that long ago 95k got you a great 991.1 gt3. Now good spec low mile, low owner cars are 110k. Nice 991.2 gt3 have dropped and now can be had for £150k or less. To me the gap is to small as the 991.2 gt3 is a better car and doesn’t have the worry of the engine quality. Current 991.1 gt3 pricing doesn’t make sense.


GT4RS

3,025 posts

179 months

Monday 29th August
quotequote all
Gibbo205 said:
bosshog said:
I was looking at 991.1 gt3 from an OPC. When I enquired about the engine 10 year warranty , contrary to what folks are saying here. The OPC said the specific fix/new engine warranty will expire. You would then be under the (3rd party) standard Porsche extended warranty . How the extended warranty would view engine issues depends if they think it’s wear and tear or track use etc and definitely wouldn’t be dropping ina brand new engine possibly- no one has yet to try and claim.
Just food for thought.
I went with a GT4 in the end and love the mid engine setup
The 991.1 RS has the same engine issues and has no 10yr goodwill warranty and as such the claims are made under the extended third party warranty and there have been no issues with claims, I know a few gen 1 RS cars running replacement G series engines which were claimed for under extended warranty.

Stop trying to create a fear which does not exist, Porsche extended warranty covers the engine.
Are you 100% sure the 991.1 gt3 rs has the same issues?

I’m lead to believe it’s an updated engine, or am I incorrect?

av185

16,339 posts

109 months

Tuesday 30th August
quotequote all
GT4RS said:
av185 said:
Just a few salient points to add to other posters remarks some who have also owned a 991.1 GT3 amongst other GT3s including myself btw.

Lift is essential in London. Any 991 GT3 without lift is also worth around £2k less and harder to sell too.

Heated seats were available with all comfort seat options and the only bucket seat option the older folding buckets.

Low owner cars obviously sell for more money and any GT3 buyer who knows their market whether trade or retail will confirm this. Many buyers will not touch cars in excess of 3 owners including myself. There are a number of 991.2 GT3s around with in excess of 6 owners also 981 GT4s and Spyders together with 991.1 GT3s with similar number of owners and these cars ARE difficult sells. Private sales of 1 owner GT3s are distinctly sort after.

If you buy a car with an original engine and if it is a post May 2014 car chances are it could well have had a newer factory upgraded engine on the production line as was the case with my car which was delivered in October 2014. My OPC arranged a certificate to confirm this and upon sale the buyers paid a premium ££ for it because not just because it was 1 owner but it hadn't been sitting around outside an OPC awaiting the engine swap as was the case with 2013 and early 2014 cars a number of whichvwere damaged. Good certification to have with the cars history.

The GTS is no comparison whatsoever with the GT3 and is not meant to be.

If you buy the right car you will have relatively inexpensive motoring for such a capable car as the 991.1 GT3. The huge price gap between this and the 991.2 thereafter the 992 GT3 will ensure this as residuals between models are closely interlinked. Bear in mind the 992 GT3 is now £136k basic so 36% more expensive than the 991.1 with imminent price rises likely, these cars whilst having eased a bit are still selling for £225k plus, spec dependent, production is now severely restricted and residuals are therefore solid and guaranteed for many years to come all of which will reflect positively on the 991.1.
What’s odd is asking prices of 991.1 gt3 and 991.2 gt3 seem to be getting closer. It wasn’t that long ago 95k got you a great 991.1 gt3. Now good spec low mile, low owner cars are 110k. Nice 991.2 gt3 have dropped and now can be had for £150k or less. To me the gap is to small as the 991.2 gt3 is a better car and doesn’t have the worry of the engine quality. Current 991.1 gt3 pricing doesn’t make sense.
Both have risen in price latterly along with other desirable cars and the 991.2 GT3 is still 50% more expensive than the 'equivalent' gen 1 reflecting how Porsche moved the game on with the gen 2 and not just with the far better engine. Also don't forget most gen 2s are half the age of gen 1s which is obviously also reflected in the price.

As with all Porsche GTs the different gen cars are closely interlinked price wise and many buyers have chosen the gen 2 GT3 with its superb manual gearbox option over the PDK 991.1 Gt3 RS the former having the far superior engine with a proper 9k rev limit unlike the lower revving RS engine which has also been problematic along with the gen 1 GT3. Porsche could well have reduced the rev limit on the RS due to the engine issues.

As ever the best spec lowest owner mileage and provenance cars will always sell for the best money whether gen 1 or gen 2.

Gibbo205

2,974 posts

189 months

Tuesday 30th August
quotequote all
GT4RS said:
Are you 100% sure the 991.1 gt3 rs has the same issues?

I’m lead to believe it’s an updated engine, or am I incorrect?
Yes it’s an updated engine with also reduced redline of 8800rpm in first and second gear and then 8500rpm in third gear onwards.

Unfortunately the engine still fails in a similar fashion to the regular GT3. I know a few RS owners and two of them both had engine failure which was covered by their extended warranties.

When I started looking for an RS around half the cars I enquired about had all had replacement engines under extended warranty because the changes Porsche made did not solve the issue and thus it’s still an issue. Their is no 10yr goodwill warranty on the RS officially but I’m sure if someone had an issue Porsche would step up but for peace of mind the extended warranty will mean a customer has no issues claiming.

I also know of one person who had an early E series GT3 go bang which Porsche replaced with an F series which also went bang and is now on a G series and so far so good.

991.2 onwards seems trouble free and hence the 40-60k premium.

TDT

3,696 posts

101 months

Tuesday 30th August
quotequote all
Just to say…. Gen 2 engines have been starting to fail now with miles… I’ve heard/seen of 2 within the last 2 weeks.
One in GT3, one in 3RSWP. Warranty protected cars…. So brand new engines fitted.

These things are made by men… so will fail.

That_White_GT3

243 posts

153 months

Tuesday 30th August
quotequote all
Buy on good condition and well looked after over low miles/1 owner cars, make sure it has full OPC history or this could/will affect any engine warranty claim should that rise in the future. As mentioned above the amount of owners really doesn't make a much of a difference as these cars change hands quicker than a 'normal' car. Engine talk is generally spoken by people who dont or never have owned a 911.1 - mine is still on the original engine and warranty will be extended as soon as the 10 year lapses. I wouldn't want to run one without but seeing as i am going to have a warranty i am not concerned.


IREvans

736 posts

104 months

Tuesday 30th August
quotequote all
That_White_GT3 said:
Buy on good condition and well looked after over low miles/1 owner cars, make sure it has full OPC history or this could/will affect any engine warranty claim should that rise in the future. As mentioned above the amount of owners really doesn't make a much of a difference as these cars change hands quicker than a 'normal' car. Engine talk is generally spoken by people who dont or never have owned a 911.1 - mine is still on the original engine and warranty will be extended as soon as the 10 year lapses. I wouldn't want to run one without but seeing as i am going to have a warranty i am not concerned.

I agree with everything you say.

I’ve never really understood the obsession with number of owners, and certainly wouldn’t pay a premium for a low ownership car. If anything, a change of owner on a car from a dealer means it’s gone through an inspection and any faults remedied, in addition to any scheduled maintenance that will have been done.


Gibbo205

2,974 posts

189 months

Tuesday 30th August
quotequote all
IREvans said:
I agree with everything you say.

I’ve never really understood the obsession with number of owners, and certainly wouldn’t pay a premium for a low ownership car. If anything, a change of owner on a car from a dealer means it’s gone through an inspection and any faults remedied, in addition to any scheduled maintenance that will have been done.
This is my thinking too, I buy a car on quality and service history.

My Boxster Spyder I am like the 11th owner, the advantages of this is that previous owners have spent money on additional items such as Porsche short shifter, GT3 brake cooling ducts and additional servicing.

The car has not put a foot wrong and it is in superb condition, the reason I purchased it, but high amount of owners does put potential buyers off, the bonus is that it meant I was able to get not only a superb car but one of the best specification on the market and nothing better has come up for sale since I got it.

dibblecorse

Original Poster:

6,417 posts

174 months

Tuesday 30th August
quotequote all
Well, what can I say, I'm humbled by the responses and the information, also spoke at length with my favoured Indie and they now know what I am potentially after, so its a waiting game, its a first world problem and I am not chomping at the bit to get out of my GTS ...

He has recommended I go drive one or at least get out for a decent passenger run in one, so if anyone near Reading fancies blunting their cars performance by letting me park my backside in the passenger seat that would be appreciated and coffee and cake would be on me.