PCNA Centrelock recall

PCNA Centrelock recall

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Discussion

ChrisW.

7,374 posts

266 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
What has it cost you in 50 days ?

What would £20 per day buy you ? A bike ?

How about something that is worth a lot more to you than it costs them ? A number of free services ??

av185

20,191 posts

138 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
Quite.

Frankly £20 a day is derisory.

alscar

5,945 posts

224 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
Depends what you think being off the road for 50 days has actually “cost “ you and what is reasonable to expect ?
For instance if financed and interest has cost you say £822 over that period ( assumed £75k loan at say 8% ) it’s a start.
If no finance then assume opportunity cost lost instead also at 8%.
You could also add prorata Insurance cost ?
That probably gets you to around the £1,000 in total.




ChrisW.

7,374 posts

266 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
alscar said:
Depends what you think being off the road for 50 days has actually “cost “ you and what is reasonable to expect ?
For instance if financed and interest has cost you say £822 over that period ( assumed £75k loan at say 8% ) it’s a start.
If no finance then assume opportunity cost lost instead also at 8%.
You could also add prorata Insurance cost ?
That probably gets you to around the £1,000 in total.
Well your rate of interest is less than Porsche' APR, you haven't included depreciation (£1000+ ?), in exchange for lack of use the amount borrowed should be the value of the car rather than expecting the freebie of the owners capital (£1500+?), insurance could have been £300+, ... so I think you are easily at £3000. Hence I suggested that OPC's could give value ... a cost less to them and a value much more to the customer. Plus other costs ... RFL, 1/12th of a service, a portion of the warranty value, etc.
This is not rocket science ...




Edited by ChrisW. on Friday 31st January 15:57

alscar

5,945 posts

224 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
ChrisW. said:
alscar said:
Depends what you think being off the road for 50 days has actually “cost “ you and what is reasonable to expect ?
For instance if financed and interest has cost you say £822 over that period ( assumed £75k loan at say 8% ) it’s a start.
If no finance then assume opportunity cost lost instead also at 8%.
You could also add prorata Insurance cost ?
That probably gets you to around the £1,000 in total.
Well your rate of interest is less than Porsche' APR, you haven't included depreciation (£1000+ ?), in exchange for lack of use the amount borrowed should be the value of the car rather than expecting the freebie of the owners capital (£1500+?), insurance could have been £300+, ... so I think you are easily at £3000. Hence I suggested that OPC's could give value ... a cost less to them and a value much more to the customer. Plus other costs ... RFL, 1/12th of a service etc.
This is not rocket science ...
My numbers were purely as an example.
It would be silly to try and include depreciation.
It’s not like Porsche haven’t sorted what is effectively a recall.
I also have ignored the worth of any loan car.
Absolutely don’t disagree with your suggestion but the “compensation “ amount total will also depend on the individuals ability to negotiate and their “ worth “ to the dealer.


ChrisW.

7,374 posts

266 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
Apologies if I came across as being sharp ... everybody will have their own value and therefore view, ... it's the OPC's that I can't understand.

What is their margin on good service / servicing / earlier access to a new car if available ... etc ? £1000 for 50 days potential use of a Porsche less costs is ... in my view incompetent.

There is so much that is good about Porsche cars ... surely the OPC's can do better.

Edited by ChrisW. on Thursday 30th January 10:11

RichT001

70 posts

4 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
Just send this to your dealer, and ask them how they got to £20 per day. Forget depreciation and all that other nonsense, the figure below is how much they value the car at per day.


av185

20,191 posts

138 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
Most recalls do not result in a stop drive though which is the crux here and differentiates the rate of compensation payable.

Depreciation is entirely relevant and as such Porsche paid a fair monthly rate to 991 GT3 owners for the period off road when our cars could not be used following the stop drive order.

samnic1085

32 posts

81 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
alscar said:
Depends what you think being off the road for 50 days has actually “cost “ you and what is reasonable to expect ?
For instance if financed and interest has cost you say £822 over that period ( assumed £75k loan at say 8% ) it’s a start.
If no finance then assume opportunity cost lost instead also at 8%.
You could also add prorata Insurance cost ?
That probably gets you to around the £1,000 in total.

did you accept the £1000 ?

samnic1085

32 posts

81 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
Roger Gerbil said:
I have been offered £1000 for 50 days off the road .

Thoughts?
did you have a hire car?

alscar

5,945 posts

224 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
ChrisW. said:
Apologies if I came across as being sharp ... everybody will have their own value and therefore view, ... it's the OPC's that I can't understand.

What is their margin on good service / servicing / earlier access to a new car if available ... etc ? £1000 for 50 days potential use of a Porsche less costs is ... in my view incompetent.

There is so much that is good about Porsche cars ... surely the OPC's can do better.

Edited by ChrisW. on Thursday 30th January 10:11
Absolutely no need to apologise.
OPC’s have for many years “ not needed “ to do better so when events like this happen it’s alien to them in terms of customer care.

alscar

5,945 posts

224 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
av185 said:
Most recalls do not result in a stop drive though which is the crux here and differentiates the rate of compensation payable.

Depreciation is entirely relevant and as such Porsche paid a fair monthly rate to 991 GT3 owners for the period off road when our cars could not be used following the stop drive order.
Different circumstances though.
Ultimately it would be hard to say on the CL recall that your car fixed today is worth any different to what is was always going to be worth.

alscar

5,945 posts

224 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
samnic1085 said:
I have no skin in the game but given the same circumstances would be inclined to do so providing the number was at or close to what my previous suggestion gives as a real world answer using real numbers.
Chris is probably correct that my numbers are on the light side so maybe £1,500 might be closer in pure cash terms.
Negotiation is all about both sides ending up happy.



av185

20,191 posts

138 months

Thursday 30th January
quotequote all
alscar said:
av185 said:
Most recalls do not result in a stop drive though which is the crux here and differentiates the rate of compensation payable.

Depreciation is entirely relevant and as such Porsche paid a fair monthly rate to 991 GT3 owners for the period off road when our cars could not be used following the stop drive order.
Different circumstances though.
Ultimately it would be hard to say on the CL recall that your car fixed today is worth any different to what is was always going to be worth.
No thats not the point of the compensation and neither was it the point in the case of the 991 GT3 engine issues compensation.

The monthly compensation amount would include an element covering natural depreciation which is what we are concerned with here and nothing to do with any depreciation caused by this specific issue long term.

It also should include finance cost/opportunity cost of capital and a 'disturbance' element to compensate for loss of use depending on the period off road which may be partly reimbursed by whether a loaner/quality of loaner being provided by the OPC.

Roger Gerbil

3,661 posts

247 months

Friday 31st January
quotequote all
samnic1085 said:
did you have a hire car?
No hire car, elected to save them money.

Car is not financed either.





ChrisW.

7,374 posts

266 months

Friday 31st January
quotequote all
So the OPC wants to value your money (after tax) at less than they would value their money (before tax) ...

Might they offer any incentives for you to make it easy for them ?

Or is this a big company challenge in the sense of "what are you going to (can you) do about it ?"

I guess this is why Americans are so quick to run to Class Actions ... but it's guaranteed to sour a relationship having to fight.


av185

20,191 posts

138 months

Friday 31st January
quotequote all
ChrisW. said:
So the OPC wants to value your money (after tax) at less than they would value their money (before tax) ...

Might they offer any incentives for you to make it easy for them ?

Or is this a big company challenge in the sense of "what are you going to (can you) do about it ?"

I guess this is why Americans are so quick to run to Class Actions ... but it's guaranteed to sour a relationship having to fight.
Although Porsche didn't 'blacklist' us following our UK class action they backed down and coughed up ££ because they literally had no choice.

ChrisW.

7,374 posts

266 months

Friday 31st January
quotequote all
Well, if eggs need to be broken ....


TDT

5,786 posts

130 months

Friday 31st January
quotequote all
Personally don't understand why people think they are entitled to that.

guyvert1

2,057 posts

253 months

Friday 31st January
quotequote all
TDT said:
Personally don't understand why people think they are entitled to that.
Because so many raised to be entitled ?