718 Engine - This made me think...

[A1VDY]

Yeah, it might be a SLK but it's a 5.5 litre V8 with 420hp.....and that engine is light years ahead of a F6 Boxster engine never mind a F4.

Since you've looked at my garage you'll have also noticed that I've also had a Honda S2000 and that's one of the best 4 cylinder engines ever made, it revved to 9000 rpm and produced 240 hp in 1999, or 120 Hp per litre, something that Porsche has only just bettered with it's current GT3 engine. So why couldn't Porsche produce a World class 4 cylinder engine for the Cayster.

Withe the exception of the GT4/Spyder I have driven every 718 Boxster (and a Cayman GTS) on either road or track, and whilst it is a decent car the engine is a massive let down, it may have bags of power but it is totally forgettable in pretty much every way, the 2.5 has dreadful power delivery and both engines are agricultural to say the least.

My 981 Boxster was a decent car, but I found the whole Porsche experience underwhelming, from other owners, to my local dealerships to the actual car itself. I've never had a car with such soft paint before, alloy wheels that started to show road rash at 2 years and 7000 miles, plus the initial £65k price tag that thankfully I didn't pay.

I'm on my second R172 SLK55 and I absolutely love it, as for Porsche I don't think I'll have another thank you.

RR

[/quote]


The 5.5 merc V8 is a big heavy slow to rev boat anchor of an engine compared to a Porsche flat 6, there really is no comparison..

[Ultrafunkula]

I wonder if UEL manifold's would help make it sound more tuneful, like on the Subarus? I don't think an f4 could ever sound like an f6 but maybe it could be improved, I think the 718 base model will be a second hand performance bargain and would certainly be interested if the sound could be refined.

[Miopyk]

Well I picked my base 718 up yesterday and as it only had 16 miles on the clock I've not been to harsh with the accelerator so far.

First impressions are the engine note is quite subdued on start up but definitely has a Porsche sound initially before it settles on tickover. As the revs build it seems to sound a bit like a VW flat 4 from the 70s and then it comes over all Subaru. None of that could be described as unpleasant and in fact after a while you tend to forget its there so I guess the best description I could give it right now is that it is nondescript. I certainly don't get the agricultural bit at all but then I've never worked on a farm so what do I know.

Then as I got home and opened the door I heard the wife coming up the road in the Cayman and realised what was missing. Am I disappointed, no not at all. I really like the way it drives and feel its a step forwards from the 981in every other area and I guess that's the point. Sometimes progress has a downside and if you can embrace that then that's all that matters.

[718Gtipirelli]

Miopyk, the photos of your car look great on our WhatsApp group. Totally agree with your post. At low speeds the engine sounds loud and angry (mine is a pre GPF model) and no one I know has been anything but impressed

[Andyoz]

Miopyk said:

Well I picked my base 718 up yesterday and as it only had 16 miles on the clock I've not been to harsh with the accelerator so far.

First impressions are the engine note is quite subdued on start up but definitely has a Porsche sound initially before it settles on tickover. As the revs build it seems to sound a bit like a VW flat 4 from the 70s and then it comes over all Subaru. None of that could be described as unpleasant and in fact after a while you tend to forget its there so I guess the best description I could give it right now is that it is nondescript. I certainly don't get the agricultural bit at all but then I've never worked on a farm so what do I know.

Then as I got home and opened the door I heard the wife coming up the road in the Cayman and realised what was missing. Am I disappointed, no not at all. I really like the way it drives and feel its a step forwards from the 981in every other area and I guess that's the point. Sometimes progress has a downside and if you can embrace that then that's all that matters.

It still seems to me you have to 'get over' the engine noise to enjoy the car and that depends on the individual I guess.

I'll try to get a listen to one in the new year.

Edited by Andyoz on Sunday 22 December 18:47

[Fnumber1user]

718Gtipirelli said:

Miopyk, the photos of your car look great on our WhatsApp group. Totally agree with your post. At low speeds the engine sounds loud and angry (mine is a pre GPF model) and no one I know has been anything but impressed

Is the WA group available to anyone?

Re: engine noise, test drove a base model (but well optioned out) at PEC Silverstone and didn't find it in the least bit offensive. Was overwhelmed by the chassis though compared to 992S (not to take anything away from the 992, that had me hooked at the turn of the start switch). Definitely a drivers car.

Dilemma wise as am convinced F6's are on their way (April 2020 was what I'd heard, and £3k over current price on GTS).

I know one shouldn't dwell on residuals etc, but I see there's a potential for F4 market to be hit hard if, and it's a fairly big if, the new F6 has a broader appeal to Porsche customers/potential interested parties.

[PMacanGTS]

I watch the car guys videos on a regular basis, and while they chase eyeballs like most youtubers, I think their reviews are usually pretty balanced. These two are more Clarkson than Catchpole and might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but they’re clearly passionate about the cars. And their garage is pretty impressive, the pick of which, for me, is a GT3 Touring. They also have a thing for Ferrari, but that’s lost on me.

[anonymous-user]

Not for F6 owners

It’s all a bit of a myth really, the 718 actually sounds great in my view, but then I’ve only owned the 2.7 before and think that one was massively overrated, and a bit underpowered, despite the eternal bullst written about it on these forums. But what kind of person would prioritise sound over actual performance anyway? I guess Porsche owners are all badge snobs at heart, lol. Who cares how it drives, it’s what it looks (and sounds) like that counts !

Pull the SoundAktor fuse and also have a look a what a good tune could achieve, something like +70 PS in the base:

https://www.superchips.co.uk/search?make=27&fu...

With a good tune you could also easily bring the existing S up to the “holy grail” and soon to be incredibly expensive to buy 400bhp six cylinder GTS...

And the gains from remapping an NA engine? Forget it. But then all Porsches are kept stock for warranty purposes, right??

[Andyoz]

PMacanGTS said:

I watch the car guys videos on a regular basis, and while they chase eyeballs like most youtubers, I think their reviews are usually pretty balanced. These two are more Clarkson than Catchpole and might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but they’re clearly passionate about the cars. And their garage is pretty impressive, the pick of which, for me, is a GT3 Touring. They also have a thing for Ferrari, but that’s lost on me.

Yes, I've gone back and watched a lot of their videos.

One of them sold a company and is obviously properly cashed up. Seems a self made guy too and the thing I like is he drives the hell out of the 15+ cars in his garage. He puts 10's of thousands of miles on his Ferrari including an F40.

He's got a lovely 930 Turbo and he gives that a good whack as well. Respect him for that and he's clearly passionate about Porsche.

The 2nd gear demo of turbo lag was a low blow though and they lost a bit of cred with me in that one though.

[JasonSteel]

Schmed said:

But what kind of person would prioritise sound over actual performance anyway?

anyone that likes cars?

[Miopyk]

Andyoz said:

Miopyk said:

Well I picked my base 718 up yesterday and as it only had 16 miles on the clock I've not been to harsh with the accelerator so far.

First impressions are the engine note is quite subdued on start up but definitely has a Porsche sound initially before it settles on tickover. As the revs build it seems to sound a bit like a VW flat 4 from the 70s and then it comes over all Subaru. None of that could be described as unpleasant and in fact after a while you tend to forget its there so I guess the best description I could give it right now is that it is nondescript. I certainly don't get the agricultural bit at all but then I've never worked on a farm so what do I know.

Then as I got home and opened the door I heard the wife coming up the road in the Cayman and realised what was missing. Am I disappointed, no not at all. I really like the way it drives and feel its a step forwards from the 981in every other area and I guess that's the point. Sometimes progress has a downside and if you can embrace that then that's all that matters.

It still seems to me you have to 'get over' the engine noise to enjoy the car and that depends on the individual I guess.

I'll try to get a listen to one in the new year.

Edited by Andyoz on Sunday 22 December 18:47

I think so yes, if you accept it for what is does you'll suddenly realise it does it all very well and probably better that the equivalent 981. You just have to get through the emotional traditions (wall) that the diehards have built without realising there are benefits on the other side that are actually really attractive.

[Andyoz]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Why does Porsche continue to handicap the Boxster/Cayman.
The market for smaller/nimble cars must be really dead. A darty Cayman with more modern version of the original 3.4 would have sat nicely below the 911 (more fuel efficenct, revvy, etc).
Obviously marketing and engineering forces at play here that's way beyond our knowledge.

[Miopyk]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I can appreciate that and at the end of the day you like what you like, or not.

The funny thing is putting the noise issue aside I feel like the power delivery from our 2.7 Cayman and the 2.0 718 Boxster is not that dissimilar. They both seem to suffer poor pick up below 2500-3000 RPM but once past that they both sing albeit with slightly different voices. Aside from that although they are essentially the same basic chassis the 718 just feels better to drive, more planted, but that could just be the 4 year gap in age.

[Andyoz]

Yeah, I don't understand the whole power competition thing. I'm obviously in the minority.

I know a medium weight car with about 300hp is more than enough for me and it will take me alot of learning to get anywhere near its real limits.

Shame,, as the Cayman is such a special thing that just makes you want to be a better driver.

[Andyoz]

PMacanGTS said:

I watch the car guys videos on a regular basis, and while they chase eyeballs like most youtubers, I think their reviews are usually pretty balanced. These two are more Clarkson than Catchpole and might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but they’re clearly passionate about the cars. And their garage is pretty impressive, the pick of which, for me, is a GT3 Touring. They also have a thing for Ferrari, but that’s lost on me.

Damian's story about buying his F40 is entertaining.

https://youtu.be/W0um3PqsHls

[Slippydiff]

Ultrafunkula said:

I wonder if UEL manifold's would help make it sound more tuneful, like on the Subarus? I don't think an f4 could ever sound like an f6 but maybe it could be improved, I think the 718 base model will be a second hand performance bargain and would certainly be interested if the sound could be refined.

The 718 already uses unequal length manifolds, and therein lies the problem.
Some decently fabricated equal length manifolds and a good tune to bring the boost in earlier, in a more linear/progressive manner would probably make a big difference to how the F4T cars drive.
I think there’s an assumption that Stuttgart always map all their cars perfectly, my experiences when having my 996 GT2 mapped indicated otherwise ...

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Get a room.

Meanwhile, the other big selling mid-engine car for "mainstream punters" will be coming to UK with the better part of 500 bhp,
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/chevrol...

[bcr5784]

rockin said:

Get a room.

Meanwhile, the other big selling mid-engine car for "mainstream punters" will be coming to UK with the better part of 500 bhp,
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/chevrol...

LHD only though.

[HighwayStar]

Schmed said:

Not for F6 owners

It’s all a bit of a myth really, the 718 actually sounds great in my view, but then I’ve only owned the 2.7 before and think that one was massively overrated, and a bit underpowered, despite the eternal bullst written about it on these forums. But what kind of person would prioritise sound over actual performance anyway? I guess Porsche owners are all badge snobs at heart, lol. Who cares how it drives, it’s what it looks (and sounds) like that counts !

Pull the SoundAktor fuse and also have a look a what a good tune could achieve, something like +70 PS in the base:

https://www.superchips.co.uk/search?make=27&fu...

With a good tune you could also easily bring the existing S up to the “holy grail” and soon to be incredibly expensive to buy 400bhp six cylinder GTS...

And the gains from remapping an NA engine? Forget it. But then all Porsches are kept stock for warranty purposes, right??

Schmed, as usual totally missing the point. It's not a myth though really... It's a fact that some people do not like the F4T. Most who prefer the 981 it's for more than just sound/noise but you seem fixated on that as the only reason. You love your 718 and that's great, I totally accept that you prefer it over a 981. Others prefer the 981 with the F6 but you just can't accept or believe it's more that just the noise the F6 makes. It's rather childish.
I could understand it if you said you're prefer the delivery of the turbo but you come across as expecting everyone to say, yes Schmed, you are right. There is no right or wrong, just what people like as individuals.. maybe you don't understand that either..?

[homerdog]

Those guys videos are okay, but they clearly think their opinions are based on fact rather than prejudice.

Which is pretty much what this thread is all about, as per normal on here. Loads of posters claiming their subjective opinions are more important than anyone else's.

Having owned cars with V8s, V6s, straight 6s and flat 6s, I do like a great sounding engine. My 718 doesn't sound anywhere near as good as any of them, but I don't think it sounds terrible either. It certainly doesn't spoil the car, which is great to drive, for all sorts of reasons. Most of the criticism of the sound is just people repeating the hysterical mutterings of spoilt motoring journalists and YouTube 'influencers'.