12 GT4's for sale on PistonHeads and growing (Vol. 2)
Discussion
i'll be honest, i'm more into the design, aesthetics and sound of a car than i am the slight performance and/or technical differences.
sure the 718GT4 engine may be technically better than the 981's, but the sound of the 981 engine vs the 718 is a much bigger deal for me. soon most cars will be near silent, so i'll enjoy what i can to its fullest before giving that up.
and sure the 718 will probably turn better and faster and more accurately than the 981, but does it really matter if you're not at or close to the limits of the car? can you honestly say you'll be anywhere near those limits on the road? or even on track for that matter...
edit - not knocking the 718GT4 by the way. it looks fab and i'm sure it's a great car
sure the 718GT4 engine may be technically better than the 981's, but the sound of the 981 engine vs the 718 is a much bigger deal for me. soon most cars will be near silent, so i'll enjoy what i can to its fullest before giving that up.
and sure the 718 will probably turn better and faster and more accurately than the 981, but does it really matter if you're not at or close to the limits of the car? can you honestly say you'll be anywhere near those limits on the road? or even on track for that matter...
edit - not knocking the 718GT4 by the way. it looks fab and i'm sure it's a great car
Edited by JasonSteel on Friday 27th March 13:31
What I'm saying is that it's not at the limit that you can tell the difference, straight away there is a feel difference in the engine and the chassis. It's more compliance than it is speed of steering and it's the pull and liveliness of the way the engine revs.
I'm not trying to start an argument with anyone, I'm just giving my experience having driven both. Maybe RSVP911, Geoff39GL or others will also chime in as they've driven both models too.
I'm not trying to start an argument with anyone, I'm just giving my experience having driven both. Maybe RSVP911, Geoff39GL or others will also chime in as they've driven both models too.
Yidwann said:
To be fair it was more aimed at the other party.... but I could just see two more pages of pointless back and fore! The world needs a bit more positivity right now!
Indeed, which is why I make a couple of comments to support my view (this is a discussion forum after all) and then walk away from the pointless arguing with one particular poster 
Twinfan said:
Indeed, which is why I make a couple of comments to support my view (this is a discussion forum after all) and then walk away from the pointless arguing with one particular poster
look you did a complete u-turn on the GT4, and the .2 has the same major issues the .1 had. it's not the big improvement we all hoped for.it's slightly better in some area and far worse in others.
You will never see it's flaws sadly so we will never see a honest review from you which is a shame.
you bigged up the GTS for 3 years which really is not that great a car, now we have this for 3 years. it's very testing for a forum when you jump in every thread and sing how great it all is.
Porsche911R said:
look you did a complete u-turn on the GT4, and the .2 has the same major issues the .1 had. it's not the big improvement we all hoped for.
it's slightly better in some area and far worse in others.
You will never see it's flaws sadly so we will never see a honest review from you which is a shame.
you bigged up the GTS for 3 years which really is not that great a car, now we have this for 3 years. it's very testing for a forum when you jump in every thread and sing how great it all is.
goto track day after all this is over and ask Chris W or TDT for a go in the 981's it will shock you. and you might then realise how held back and unexciting the current 2 GT4 models are over 2 tuned one driven well, over having a hand shandy saying how much better the 718 chassis is FFS.it's slightly better in some area and far worse in others.
You will never see it's flaws sadly so we will never see a honest review from you which is a shame.
you bigged up the GTS for 3 years which really is not that great a car, now we have this for 3 years. it's very testing for a forum when you jump in every thread and sing how great it all is.
Personally I think the 981 gt4 is looking a bit of a bargain against a new 718 even against a manual 991.2 gt3(half the price). Could see prices drop as low as £55k for a good example with an average of £60k. But at £60k that's only £5k under list before extras which is about right under pre overs market conditions.
If I was buying a new 718 it would have to be the Spyder which IMHO is the pick of the 718 f6 bunch but perhaps that is because I had a 981 gt4 from new!
If I was buying a new 718 it would have to be the Spyder which IMHO is the pick of the 718 f6 bunch but perhaps that is because I had a 981 gt4 from new!
Porsche911R said:
Twinfan said:
Indeed, which is why I make a couple of comments to support my view (this is a discussion forum after all) and then walk away from the pointless arguing with one particular poster
look you did a complete u-turn on the GT4, and the .2 has the same major issues the .1 had. it's not the big improvement we all hoped for.it's slightly better in some area and far worse in others.
You will never see it's flaws sadly so we will never see a honest review from you which is a shame.
you bigged up the GTS for 3 years which really is not that great a car, now we have this for 3 years. it's very testing for a forum when you jump in every thread and sing how great it all is.
From my position if I was given the opportunity to spec a new 718GT4 (my first new GT car) I was not going to turn it down, one of the last N/A manual cars, I therefore have added all sorts of unnecessaries as I intend to keep it (for at least 3yrs) so yes David I probably am a little biased but I will try to be objective.
Incidentally your comments on the 981GTS is a little unkind I also owned a manual BGTS which is probably in this day and age all the road car you really need, it is NOT a bad car you would have to try quite hard to loose it on a B road blast.
I need to make the point that my 718 is still not run in so I'm still around the 4K rev limit but it is a nice engine, I'll comment further when I have properly tried it. The steering and chassis of the base 718 car is better than the base 981, The steering feel was one of the weak points of the 981 in my opinion, the chassis is more compliant on the 718 which is an improvement on the road not sure on track as yet to track. My track days are for fun, I don't chase times and only do 3 or 4 per year, Chris W is far more of an authority on track driving but again that is not a fair comparison to the average Joe with a standard car. It is a long time since I last saw TDT (I think Oulton a while ago) when he was just starting with his car so can only go on what has been written on here but it sounds as though again he is now far from standard. I would never knock the 981GT4 it is a lovely car and if the gearing was sorted it would make such a difference, I only sold mine as I was getting a 718. My opinion is that the 718GT4 is a step on from the 981 very much Porsche style in a number of areas just that little bit better. Is it worth the extra money depends if you have one or not as David says if you have got one then you will probably say yes if not you will think its not worth the money. All I would say is try them both for at least a full day and then draw your own conclusion.
All my opinion based on less than 1000 miles in the 718
I have a 981.
Purely on looks, I think the 981 is the better car.
To drive (and despite not having driven the 718) - everything I've read about the 718 leads me to believe I would say it's the better car for me.
But if I get the call for a 718? I would probably refuse it. The cost to change is too much IMO. I would put that money towards adding a GR Yaris to my stable.
Purely on looks, I think the 981 is the better car.
To drive (and despite not having driven the 718) - everything I've read about the 718 leads me to believe I would say it's the better car for me.
But if I get the call for a 718? I would probably refuse it. The cost to change is too much IMO. I would put that money towards adding a GR Yaris to my stable.
As someone with a 981 gt4 and had an order for the 718 GT4, I cancelled the order.
The reasons were simple...
The newer car for me, the non initiated is the same car but...
Costs so much more.
Has drastically more options.
Produced in much larger numbers.
The Spyder a better proposition.
The cosmetics aren’t to my taste - I have issue with the harder edges and lines. The rear lights etc.
It’s the sophomore car... not the original.
In ten years I felt the first gen will age better. It’s a bargain right now and those talking £55k prices could be right, but a lot of the world will have to have gone sideways for that to happen. GTS cars for £40k? 981s for £30k and suddenly every car underneath? Your homes would be worth so little too and money itself devalued so much. High long term unemployment.
Against a backdrop of money being the cheapest it’s ever been, and the last time that happened after a downturn, we had a booming overs market and housing price growth etc. Twice.
Not saying it will happen again, but in a year from now we will know I suspect.
Both cars amazing. Get either.
The reasons were simple...
The newer car for me, the non initiated is the same car but...
Costs so much more.
Has drastically more options.
Produced in much larger numbers.
The Spyder a better proposition.
The cosmetics aren’t to my taste - I have issue with the harder edges and lines. The rear lights etc.
It’s the sophomore car... not the original.
In ten years I felt the first gen will age better. It’s a bargain right now and those talking £55k prices could be right, but a lot of the world will have to have gone sideways for that to happen. GTS cars for £40k? 981s for £30k and suddenly every car underneath? Your homes would be worth so little too and money itself devalued so much. High long term unemployment.
Against a backdrop of money being the cheapest it’s ever been, and the last time that happened after a downturn, we had a booming overs market and housing price growth etc. Twice.
Not saying it will happen again, but in a year from now we will know I suspect.
Both cars amazing. Get either.
woollyjoe said:
As someone with a 981 gt4 and had an order for the 718 GT4, I cancelled the order.
The reasons were simple...
The newer car for me, the non initiated is the same car but...
Costs so much more.
Has drastically more options.
Produced in much larger numbers.
The Spyder a better proposition.
The cosmetics aren’t to my taste - I have issue with the harder edges and lines. The rear lights etc.
It’s the sophomore car... not the original.
In ten years I felt the first gen will age better. It’s a bargain right now and those talking £55k prices could be right, but a lot of the world will have to have gone sideways for that to happen. GTS cars for £40k? 981s for £30k and suddenly every car underneath? Your homes would be worth so little too and money itself devalued so much. High long term unemployment.
Against a backdrop of money being the cheapest it’s ever been, and the last time that happened after a downturn, we had a booming overs market and housing price growth etc. Twice.
Not saying it will happen again, but in a year from now we will know I suspect.
Both cars amazing. Get either.
The world has gone sideways if you notice ....The reasons were simple...
The newer car for me, the non initiated is the same car but...
Costs so much more.
Has drastically more options.
Produced in much larger numbers.
The Spyder a better proposition.
The cosmetics aren’t to my taste - I have issue with the harder edges and lines. The rear lights etc.
It’s the sophomore car... not the original.
In ten years I felt the first gen will age better. It’s a bargain right now and those talking £55k prices could be right, but a lot of the world will have to have gone sideways for that to happen. GTS cars for £40k? 981s for £30k and suddenly every car underneath? Your homes would be worth so little too and money itself devalued so much. High long term unemployment.
Against a backdrop of money being the cheapest it’s ever been, and the last time that happened after a downturn, we had a booming overs market and housing price growth etc. Twice.
Not saying it will happen again, but in a year from now we will know I suspect.
Both cars amazing. Get either.
Low mile high spec cars will easy be £59k come winter.
Bargain, not really. But at £59k and a few choice mods an option for sure. As a drivers car though the Evora 410 has to be worth a look at £60k. And if you are serious driver the Exige 410 at £60k is the car to own if you want to run 2 cars over one.
The GT4 did the one car thing quite well.
Porsche911R said:
The world has gone sideways if you notice ....
Low mile high spec cars will easy be £59k come winter.
Bargain, not really. But at £59k and a few choice mods an option for sure. As a drivers car though the Evora 410 has to be worth a look at £60k. And if you are serious driver the Exige 410 at £60k is the car to own if you want to run 2 cars over one.
The GT4 did the one car thing quite well.
the economies have shut down - that’s not what I’m talking about. No one should be buying cars right now, so the world right now isn’t why I’d call sideways. There is no market. Low mile high spec cars will easy be £59k come winter.
Bargain, not really. But at £59k and a few choice mods an option for sure. As a drivers car though the Evora 410 has to be worth a look at £60k. And if you are serious driver the Exige 410 at £60k is the car to own if you want to run 2 cars over one.
The GT4 did the one car thing quite well.
I also said a Lot will have to have gone sideways. Not just a virus, but long term markets and the value of money needs to crash from many things around the whole world.
When this is finished, and it will finish, that’s when we’ll know what cars are worth. When we know what money is worth.
woollyjoe said:
the economies have shut down - that’s not what I’m talking about. No one should be buying cars right now, so the world right now isn’t why I’d call sideways. There is no market.
I also said a Lot will have to have gone sideways. Not just a virus, but long term markets and the value of money needs to crash from many things around the whole world.
When this is finished, and it will finish, that’s when we’ll know what cars are worth. When we know what money is worth.
Think you are right. Amazing how many people think this will be over in a couple of months and the world will return to normal. I also said a Lot will have to have gone sideways. Not just a virus, but long term markets and the value of money needs to crash from many things around the whole world.
When this is finished, and it will finish, that’s when we’ll know what cars are worth. When we know what money is worth.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Just a touch of realism. Yes we will all be impacted but the poor in society will sadly suffer the most. I hope we get a fairer society at the end of all this. Things like classic car values have got grossly obscene when the average salary is £600 a week. Yes I run two Porsche cars but I don’t really need them. The manufacturers might get a shock once a lot of cars are handed back at the end of finance and the values are sub 20% of what they guaranteed. Hope they have hedged well. You could stomach that in one market but very painful worldwide. Still they have been pumping out too much metal with easy finance. History says it always ends in a bad way. Yes, it’s sad for everyone and no one is unaffected. Said with sincerity.
My GT4 I hope to keep but if I have to, I’ll sell it.
How quickly it recovers - I’m divided. The world moves faster and faster.... we’re well prepped in economic downturns (disasters) so consumer confidence may be more resilient this time around and I hope so.
But... money will be soooo cheap to borrow. Inflation through the roof - having cash will be as bad as owning a car - maybe not but you get the idea.
Those that want cheap cars.... it doesn’t work that way. If your GT4 is worth £50k, your house just lost a third it’s value too.
Only thing that scares me is the length of time the world stops working.
My GT4 I hope to keep but if I have to, I’ll sell it.
How quickly it recovers - I’m divided. The world moves faster and faster.... we’re well prepped in economic downturns (disasters) so consumer confidence may be more resilient this time around and I hope so.
But... money will be soooo cheap to borrow. Inflation through the roof - having cash will be as bad as owning a car - maybe not but you get the idea.
Those that want cheap cars.... it doesn’t work that way. If your GT4 is worth £50k, your house just lost a third it’s value too.
Only thing that scares me is the length of time the world stops working.
woollyjoe said:
Yes, it’s sad for everyone and no one is unaffected. Said with sincerity.
My GT4 I hope to keep but if I have to, I’ll sell it.
How quickly it recovers - I’m divided. The world moves faster and faster.... we’re well prepped in economic downturns (disasters) so consumer confidence may be more resilient this time around and I hope so.
But... money will be soooo cheap to borrow. Inflation through the roof - having cash will be as bad as owning a car - maybe not but you get the idea.
Those that want cheap cars.... it doesn’t work that way. If your GT4 is worth £50k, your house just lost a third it’s value too.
Only thing that scares me is the length of time the world stops working.
For house owners they don’t care what the house is worth , it makes no odds unless you are selling to live in a tent ! My GT4 I hope to keep but if I have to, I’ll sell it.
How quickly it recovers - I’m divided. The world moves faster and faster.... we’re well prepped in economic downturns (disasters) so consumer confidence may be more resilient this time around and I hope so.
But... money will be soooo cheap to borrow. Inflation through the roof - having cash will be as bad as owning a car - maybe not but you get the idea.
Those that want cheap cars.... it doesn’t work that way. If your GT4 is worth £50k, your house just lost a third it’s value too.
Only thing that scares me is the length of time the world stops working.
There will still be a housing shortage on the other side of this, but values to house owners is a nothing value.
85% cars are on PCP people will just hand them back, again zero loss.
cc3 said:
Just a touch of realism. Yes we will all be impacted but the poor in society will sadly suffer the most. I hope we get a fairer society at the end of all this. Things like classic car values have got grossly obscene when the average salary is £600 a week. Yes I run two Porsche cars but I don’t really need them. The manufacturers might get a shock once a lot of cars are handed back at the end of finance and the values are sub 20% of what they guaranteed. Hope they have hedged well. You could stomach that in one market but very painful worldwide. Still they have been pumping out too much metal with easy finance. History says it always ends in a bad way.
I am inclined to this view. First World problems. If values fall in every asset class, as long as your are trading up the price to change becomes less. And if you choose to trade out, you should have the cash so long as you didn't believe that secondhand cars would be worth more than the same car new ...I hope that everybody gains maximum enjoyment from whatever car they choose to buy ... but I don't hope they will make a profit from them. If that was the reason for buying, they have fallen for the illusion that Porsche dealers have been peddling for the last eight years since 2011 when they were last struggling to sell new cars at list.
Porsche911R said:
goto track day after all this is over and ask Chris W or TDT for a go in the 981's it will shock you. and you might then realise how held back and unexciting the current 2 GT4 models are over 2 tuned one driven well, over having a hand shandy saying how much better the 718 chassis is FFS.
The fun is in the journey and that's why throughout the development of my car I've always taken driver tuition. I love giving passenger rides and sharing the experience of what is now MY GT4 with others. I can say being a few years ahead of TDT that I greatly admire the way that he has grasped the vision of what he and his car can be. There is also an element of risk management ... There are others who have gone the Radical route ... too brave for me but I loved my passenger ride
If at any stage this stops being fun, stop it. But nobody should be making the fun from others ... IMHO.
The 718GT4 is a very very good car. I would like to believe that my modified 981 GT4 is better, but the fact now is that Porsche don't really want to know me.
Why ? Because they want to / need to sell new cars. How much are they investing in Taycan ?
The fact that this is a nonsense of an electric car (I own a 2014 BMW i3) is another matter of opinion
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