GT4 RS/ Spyder RS Experiences, Driving and Technical
Discussion
dm.racing said:
Hey Mr Demon, please don’t take my comments personally, they were not aimed at you or any other person. I was just excited with the new car and relieved that some of the comments I had seen online, that it’s too hard and too loud, proved inaccurate in my view. Clearly you have a different opinion. And of course nothing wrong with tuners trying to improve the standard setup of a car, but obviously you don’t ask a barber if it’s time for a haircut, you form your own view… Anyway, I will drive the car more, and if I change my mind, I will come here, admit I was wrong, and eat humble pie! For now, I still think it’s a well judged car, just as firm and noisy as a Porsche RS road car should be.
that's fine it's only opinions, I thought it odd to post up bull and myths when you have not been above 5k revs :-) the shocks to me feel like they can only do one thing at a time, so on WOT when you load them up and then hit a dip the car bounces about. If you free wheel over a bump the car handles it, it just cannot do both very well at all. when I picked my 992 GT3 up and drove them back to back for 3 hours each way the quality is night and day and some moan the 992 is too hard etc and too busy some moan it's too dull again it cannot be both so just opinions again.I don't mean driving the 4RS like a nanny to the shops, I mean driving it on WOT on a bumby road or out a bend trying to keep up with turbo cars. I don't care about a skip it's the way the car cuts power once the car is bouncing about driven hard. Olton is NOT like a bumpy B road that's for sure , I did say I had no issues on track bar the car still under steered too much and the oem pads are like chocolate. But I loved it on track the pace is amazing even oem. And that imo is where the car needs to stay as for me on the road it's dire mess driven like a race car.
There are many vids of this car and the words "lacking" and under steer" are repeated add a set of shocks, some 9" wheels and pads transforms to car to a monster.
I felt the same once driven hard, picking it up on the A14 driving it home having a bit of fun with induction noise, plus a few slow trips out at 75mph the car is pussy cat. I would say my 992 GT3 is louder in the cabin at 70mph.
Driven hard on the road which right or wrong I tend to do as this car eggs you on and with short ratio's you are still at lower speeds in WOT at 9k in 2nd, the car just disapointed me for a £160k car, it just felt VERY under developed to me. And every race driver who has driven one on track since has said the same as I have, some guys in the USA have 9" + front rims and -3.7 camber and still under steering, I do find that odd.
but the car is VERY fast on track and I did say for me I also had no real track issues bar hitting mid bend under steer on WOT so you drive round that no issue and feed the power in slower , and the oem chocolate pads are dire. would I be faster with new shocks on track , nope I am not a good enough driver to get a faster time from a set of shocks.
Would I be able to fine tune the car on track say to stop the front lifting out a bend with some front added rebound, yes I think I would, plus when pushing on that would save tyres also, would the car be far far better on the road with correct damping, yes 100% sure it would be, so the shock under load can actually do 2 things at once well and iron out the bumps to allow WOT and a dip at the same time with out cutting power all the time.
none of my other past cars have add this issue bar say a my 996 GT3.
There is a very good car in there, we have see the transformations on track with pro drivers not fighting with the car to keep it on track in such cars.
In fact they look mega with shocks and better brakes. But at the cost of not being able to renew the 4th year warranty !
And personally for me I did not want to spend £20k on a £160k car to fine tune it, I decided to swap it for a 992 GT3 as I don't do many track days now. I think if you buy one 2nd hand at £130k fully loaded and then spend £20k on it, WOW what a car you would have. Asa track only car OEM with just some pads again wow what a car this car is. I am fussy but £160k is a lot of money to me and I like things to be right.
If someone pays 160k for one vs a 992 GT3… thats their choice.
4RS/SRS was never 160k worth of car… been saying that since day one.
The ‘market’ created that situation, and Porsche silly crazy pricing for options which bloated the prices.
Launch price for 4RS was 108k.
Launch price for 992 GT3 was 123k.
This tells you what you need to know.
4RS/SRS was never 160k worth of car… been saying that since day one.
The ‘market’ created that situation, and Porsche silly crazy pricing for options which bloated the prices.
Launch price for 4RS was 108k.
Launch price for 992 GT3 was 123k.
This tells you what you need to know.
elisered said:
For context just how many miles and track days did you drive in the year you owned your car?
Enough to want to sell it :-) just like Bigmoley did and he got no hassle about saying such :-)As I said I had a love hate with the car, and over winter I was close to ordering shocks from SSR 4 or 5 times, Tyrone even went to SSR factory and we both were going to go for it.
I had a geo done to max out what the car can do ie -2.7/ -2.2 and 2mm toe each side, that def netted me faster times at donny as I got less under steer out the bends on throttle. but to get faster times then you made the car push at the expense of tyre, and that's some thing I don't like doing,
You cannot add big rake like a GT3 due to engine layout I was already loosing traction out the bends so rake is not the answer here.
With shocks I might have added a bit of front rebound to try and stop the front lifting under throttle mid bend as an example.
The 100's of vids showing ripped up outters to me is odd, you can feel the car push so drive round it !! don't burn up a set of tyres to gain 1 second lap !
I did do that for 2 laps at Donny and did a faster time, but I could feel the front tyres moaning about it.
I did 5 track days in the car and 3 or 4 trips inc a wales trip which sort of sealed the sell deal I think, My mate has a AMG GT and I could not even get him in the car to goto dinner one night as the cars just to annoying to nip out to a pub in even. and he owns a Caterham !!
The Wales trip just got worse and worse the harder and faster you drive the car. and you end up with ear plugs in even on the road. it;s not easy keeping up with an AMG GT car so you live above 6k revs and that is wearing after 3 or 4 hours to a point the fun has gone and it's just tiring.
Do a tour round Wales at 50 mph and lift of the throttle every bump the car would be find lol. Some like doing that , no right and wrong.
I then did a few trips to meets and the car did bring a tear to my eye really, in the end I was using the 718 GTS even to goto cars and cofree events because I hated driving the 4RS on the road unless it was really pottering about and a 4RS is not that car to potter about in, it eggs you on.
The window for the 4RS is tiny, I can see why lots are on 5 owners and many are sold on at losses, my car is 1.5 years old and the next owner will be the 4th !!! I know some one who swapped his 4RS for a 992 RS and he goes to work in the car and says the 992 RS is a nicer to even do a commute in !
So the 4RS is what it is, and you go in knowing what it is eyes open, I thought it was what I wanted and looked good value at list and GT3 992 were £185k at the time so a big step up, again the 991.2 RS were £185k so a 4RS looked great value, I paid £5k under list. and if I were mega rich and had space I would love one in a fleet of cars with some nice shocks on it for that Sunday blat out.
My review of owning it and what I did with it is just an honest opinion from my seat and driving it on trips and track nothing more, not sure why that upsets people. None of my cars bar 1 or 2 are the best ever lol I have given quite a lot of poor Porsche reviews. 996 GT3, 981 GT4, 991.1 GTS, 4RS.
PLus my long gearing hate is well know.
Best all round Porsche sports car today imo 718 GTS PDK 4.0 Boxster. :-) add in a track day go Spyder. although they do sound crap.
Best fun cars buy a 2010-2012 era car. My fun car was for 12 years my 987 SPyder, it's now my 997 GTS. amazing cars to own in that era inc the Cayman R's.
I only got the 992 GT3 for a laugh and it was easy to part ex the 4RS over trying to sell it. So far it's feels like it's one of the greats and a big step on from my 991.2 GT3, but it is too fast for the road like my 991.2 GT3 was and that's why I sold that in the end.
But 80% of the time I drive my Cayman 718GTS SPASM PDK car and I love it.
I 'll sell the 992 GT3 end of next summer and retire and swap it for a PDK 718 Spyder. the 992 GT3 is just to try.
TDT said:
Throttlebody said:
TDT said:
Throttlebody said:
What tyres are you running TDT?
Dunlop Sport Race Maxx 2, that the car came with. 
Throttlebody said:
TDT said:
Throttlebody said:
TDT said:
Throttlebody said:
What tyres are you running TDT?
Dunlop Sport Race Maxx 2, that the car came with. No other parts. MdF for aero F and R. Didnt get to play with other modes.
Tyrone, thanks for sharing the awesome video. I couldn't make it last week, but an interesting benchmark for me as I did an Oulton Park day back in October(?) in my GT4 RS before getting the suspension set up. Loved the circuit, so was gutted I couldn't take up the "reserve" place when it was offered last week.
Reassuringly, the lines and braking points seemed immediately familiar in the video, as did the amazing soundtrack. In my crash helmet, I didn't feel I needed earlplugs at all. I do use them occasionally on the road, mainly because the Cup 2s can be really noisy on some motorway surfaces in my one.
You look impressively more calm and composed than I reckon I did last time. Hopefully having a suspension setup done will change some of that for me. I'll be revisiting the video before I go back to Oulton Park again, a bit of a "master-class" from this armchair's perspective!
How were your tyres at the end of the day? It didn't look like you were scrubbing the outside of the fronts as many have suffered from. However you seem to be admirably patient about getting back on the throttle once the car is turned in and rotating, which I think might be key. I'll be continuing to work on that this year, but I've not killed my first set in 2 track days last year. Quietly chuffed they might have one or 2 more track days left in them, but have swapped left and right now.
I'm presuming "MdF front and rear" means front flaps pulled up to full height, rear wing angle on maximum? I asked Suspension Secrets to leave the aero alone when they did the setup a couple of weeks back. I was planning to max it before my next track day, but I'm loathe to make the fuel consumption even worse when I'm going to be using it mainly on the road for now.
Thanks again for posting - very helpful. Not everyone loves a GT4 RS, it seems, but I'm really quite smitten with my one, on road or track.
Liam
[Edit: Really quite interested by your comments on brakes. I'm likely to change springs, but not dampers, later in the year. But if I'm feeling flush, your comment on the ST setup feeling "unburstable" resonates with me. It's more bang per buck than fitting a genuine set of mag wheels, but that also might happen one day.]
Reassuringly, the lines and braking points seemed immediately familiar in the video, as did the amazing soundtrack. In my crash helmet, I didn't feel I needed earlplugs at all. I do use them occasionally on the road, mainly because the Cup 2s can be really noisy on some motorway surfaces in my one.
You look impressively more calm and composed than I reckon I did last time. Hopefully having a suspension setup done will change some of that for me. I'll be revisiting the video before I go back to Oulton Park again, a bit of a "master-class" from this armchair's perspective!
How were your tyres at the end of the day? It didn't look like you were scrubbing the outside of the fronts as many have suffered from. However you seem to be admirably patient about getting back on the throttle once the car is turned in and rotating, which I think might be key. I'll be continuing to work on that this year, but I've not killed my first set in 2 track days last year. Quietly chuffed they might have one or 2 more track days left in them, but have swapped left and right now.
I'm presuming "MdF front and rear" means front flaps pulled up to full height, rear wing angle on maximum? I asked Suspension Secrets to leave the aero alone when they did the setup a couple of weeks back. I was planning to max it before my next track day, but I'm loathe to make the fuel consumption even worse when I'm going to be using it mainly on the road for now.
Thanks again for posting - very helpful. Not everyone loves a GT4 RS, it seems, but I'm really quite smitten with my one, on road or track.
Liam
[Edit: Really quite interested by your comments on brakes. I'm likely to change springs, but not dampers, later in the year. But if I'm feeling flush, your comment on the ST setup feeling "unburstable" resonates with me. It's more bang per buck than fitting a genuine set of mag wheels, but that also might happen one day.]
Edited by LiamH66 on Wednesday 12th March 22:42
Cheers for the comments Liam.
MdF = Mid downforce.
Car has 3 positions
- Low/default-factory setting
- Mid
- High
I’ll take some pics of the tyres. Still in pretty decent shape I think.
The car needs smoothness, as it is quite sharp, direct and finely balanced so it’s easy to make it dance or send it one way or the other. This is true of the steering and the drivetrain. Very sharp.
Loads of fun.
MdF = Mid downforce.
Car has 3 positions
- Low/default-factory setting
- Mid
- High
I’ll take some pics of the tyres. Still in pretty decent shape I think.
The car needs smoothness, as it is quite sharp, direct and finely balanced so it’s easy to make it dance or send it one way or the other. This is true of the steering and the drivetrain. Very sharp.
Loads of fun.
Liam, the saving of rotational unsprung mass of Magnesium wheels is a one-off saving ... and some may legitimately counter this with their being a little fragile by comparison to the forged alloys.
The saving of PCCB discs is also a one-off saving, as above.
The saving of ST's is a two-off saving ... because they run so much cooler than PCCB's or steels that the pads last far longer. They are also cheaper to refurbish (come the time) than PCCB's though there is some uncertainty surrounding Surface Transform as a company. Should the worst happen I would be very surprised if there wasn't some pre-pack liquidation to escape the debt and give their technology a second chance ...
The saving of PCCB discs is also a one-off saving, as above.
The saving of ST's is a two-off saving ... because they run so much cooler than PCCB's or steels that the pads last far longer. They are also cheaper to refurbish (come the time) than PCCB's though there is some uncertainty surrounding Surface Transform as a company. Should the worst happen I would be very surprised if there wasn't some pre-pack liquidation to escape the debt and give their technology a second chance ...
ChrisW. said:
Liam, the saving of rotational unsprung mass of Magnesium wheels is a one-off saving ... and some may legitimately counter this with their being a little fragile by comparison to the forged alloys.
The saving of PCCB discs is also a one-off saving, as above.
The saving of ST's is a two-off saving ... because they run so much cooler than PCCB's or steels that the pads last far longer. They are also cheaper to refurbish (come the time) than PCCB's though there is some uncertainty surrounding Surface Transform as a company. Should the worst happen I would be very surprised if there wasn't some pre-pack liquidation to escape the debt and give their technology a second chance ...
Just had some of my clutch of 980 PCCB refurbished by Rebrake. Although the LT is a challenge, product looks good and employs the latest friction material as per the 991 onwards PCCB. Putting them on this week:The saving of PCCB discs is also a one-off saving, as above.
The saving of ST's is a two-off saving ... because they run so much cooler than PCCB's or steels that the pads last far longer. They are also cheaper to refurbish (come the time) than PCCB's though there is some uncertainty surrounding Surface Transform as a company. Should the worst happen I would be very surprised if there wasn't some pre-pack liquidation to escape the debt and give their technology a second chance ...
.
Current iteration of PCCB with a decent pad like Endless (which almost are Endless!) unless you are doing boat loads of track days a year are great, I've run three cars with those, with dozens of track days over years and never an issue.
As you say ST look to be a bit wobbly, but sure it will continue in some format
Tyre wear still quite normal.
Front Left (VL) and Rear Left (HL)
2400mls in total.
2 light track days (Goodwood & Castle Combe) at c -2.4° front & -2.0° rear
Then Oulton Park with c-2.7° front and -2.2° rear.
I guess it’s to do with track temps, driving style - how you load the tyres? or I’m just not going fast enough…
Front Left (VL) and Rear Left (HL)
2400mls in total.
2 light track days (Goodwood & Castle Combe) at c -2.4° front & -2.0° rear
Then Oulton Park with c-2.7° front and -2.2° rear.
I guess it’s to do with track temps, driving style - how you load the tyres? or I’m just not going fast enough…
Ride heights optimised, yes. Although you are limited to around -10mm max on the front damper if you have FAL.
Aftermarket damper kits will allow further lowering whilst retaining FAL support.
Aftermarket damper kits will allow further lowering whilst retaining FAL support.
TDT said:
On the Manthey alignment rig at JZM for full trackday configuration on OEM hardware as the baseline to start the 2025 season.
So now we have applied the max negative camber available from the OEM components, adding only shims and optimising the ride height.
No rear toe arms at this stage as the 4RS comes with revised length toe arms (vs GT4) from the factory anyway.
We were able to set rear toe to exactly where I had it on my previous car… without parts. So trying like that initially. .
So now we have applied the max negative camber available from the OEM components, adding only shims and optimising the ride height.
No rear toe arms at this stage as the 4RS comes with revised length toe arms (vs GT4) from the factory anyway.
We were able to set rear toe to exactly where I had it on my previous car… without parts. So trying like that initially. .
TDT said:
Tyre wear still quite normal.
Front Left (VL) and Rear Left (HL)
2400mls in total.
2 light track days (Goodwood & Castle Combe) at c -2.4° front & -2.0° rear
Then Oulton Park with c-2.7° front and -2.2° rear.
I guess it’s to do with track temps, driving style - how you load the tyres? or I’m just not going fast enough…
HiFront Left (VL) and Rear Left (HL)
2400mls in total.
2 light track days (Goodwood & Castle Combe) at c -2.4° front & -2.0° rear
Then Oulton Park with c-2.7° front and -2.2° rear.
I guess it’s to do with track temps, driving style - how you load the tyres? or I’m just not going fast enough…
What pressure’s are you running hot and when you go out on cold tyres what you starting at.
I would say that’s too much shoulder wear. It could be not enough camber (I don’t think it’s that) or are you leaning it a little to much on low pressures?
I start off at road pressures so around 2.1F and 2.3 or 2.4R
Once they start to head up and get hot I take them back down to the same level. I only did one bleed down ln Friday, once things got drier.
With the ambient and track temps - i dont want to run low pressures as they’ll be out range and you wont get them to come back up.
This is on the Dunlop Sport Race Maxx 2.
Ref camber you can see the line where the surface has warmed and melted/migrated/pushed to. Fronts look ok IME. Its not gone over the edge of the tread although it is close.
The rear has used everything available so probably could do with more if you wanted to.
Balance of the car was pretty neutral- no understeer based upon what I was doing (loads of time left on the table) and I could start to move the rear on throttle if/when i wanted to on exit to straighten.
So technically could use some more once pushing harder - which I already know, (previous 718MR ended up in the region of -3.4° Front and -2.8° Rear) but my intention is to only put on just what I need, as I need it, which then keeps the operating window as open as possible.
But I don’t think this is the excessive wear vs how some people claim the car uses tyres, considering how much tread depth you don't get at the shoulder anyway.
Once they start to head up and get hot I take them back down to the same level. I only did one bleed down ln Friday, once things got drier.
With the ambient and track temps - i dont want to run low pressures as they’ll be out range and you wont get them to come back up.
This is on the Dunlop Sport Race Maxx 2.
Ref camber you can see the line where the surface has warmed and melted/migrated/pushed to. Fronts look ok IME. Its not gone over the edge of the tread although it is close.
The rear has used everything available so probably could do with more if you wanted to.
Balance of the car was pretty neutral- no understeer based upon what I was doing (loads of time left on the table) and I could start to move the rear on throttle if/when i wanted to on exit to straighten.
So technically could use some more once pushing harder - which I already know, (previous 718MR ended up in the region of -3.4° Front and -2.8° Rear) but my intention is to only put on just what I need, as I need it, which then keeps the operating window as open as possible.
But I don’t think this is the excessive wear vs how some people claim the car uses tyres, considering how much tread depth you don't get at the shoulder anyway.
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