Cayman curious
Discussion
Hol said:
Not really. It’s happened for a lot of sports cars after reaching 15 years of age.
What's your evidence for that, out of interest?Oldest 986s are now 28 years old, no sign of them going up. Earliest 987 Boxsters are now 20 years old, currently cheaper than ever, earliest 987 Cayman is 19 years old, cheaper than ever. 996s have probably gone up a tiny bit from rock bottom, but only a tiny bit and that's quite recent and if anything prices are falling right now. Earliest ones were well over 20 years old before they budged.
Anyway, 987.2 Caymans have been falling over the past two years, that's clear enough. I can't see them going up much in the next five years. Anyone's guess after that.
I think a Hartech full rebuild is around £ 12-15k with a significant waiting list.
I'm watching Caymans at the moment, I'd prefer a 3.4S 987.2 with a manual gearbox. I want heated seats, cruise and the Xenon headlamps. Cruise can be added relatively easily for £ 500 or so.
I'd quite like Sport Chrono, not because I'd use it, but it adds something to the dashboard. I'd quite like a rear wiper too.
I'm watching Caymans at the moment, I'd prefer a 3.4S 987.2 with a manual gearbox. I want heated seats, cruise and the Xenon headlamps. Cruise can be added relatively easily for £ 500 or so.
I'd quite like Sport Chrono, not because I'd use it, but it adds something to the dashboard. I'd quite like a rear wiper too.
Edited by andrewcliffe on Tuesday 19th November 16:44
DarkVeil said:
It's also one of the most basic specced Cayman S that I've seen. No leather interior, no satnav, no pasm, no sport mode, just sports seats.
Most 3.4S manual Gen 2 Caymans are very low spec, extended leather is very rare for instance. I bought one in 2020 and one in 2022, and so have been watching the market for years and know just how few good spec cars there are out there. That car is fairly typical of about a third or more of examples. Just the sports seats puts it above a lot of cars. And it's far cheaper than it would have been a few years ago.There's quite a spread of prices right now due to some vendors pricing their cars at levels from a few years ago and who haven't twigged reality. But there have been numerous much cheaper examples over the last six months.
If you factor in inflation, prices are down by over 30%+ since 2021. The idea that you now need to get in fast because prices are about to jump is a bit detached from the current reality of a falling market.
andrewcliffe said:
I want heated seats, cruise and the Xenon headlamps. Cruise can be added relatively easily for £ 500 or so.
Don't make the factory Xenons a deal breaker, either. The low beam is pretty crap by current standards and the high beam is a mix of xenon and incandescent. I've had gen 2s with and without Xenons. If you add LED bulbs to the non-xenon headlight unit, you can get better results than the factory xenons.f6box said:
Don't make the factory Xenons a deal breaker, either. The low beam is pretty crap by current standards and the high beam is a mix of xenon and incandescent. I've had gen 2s with and without Xenons. If you add LED bulbs to the non-xenon headlight unit, you can get better results than the factory xenons.
Thats good to know. My experience with LED's has been mixed with a car that gave a patchy beam pattern which was like (I assume) driving with cateracts. There is also the worry of whether they would pass an MoT.f6box said:
Hol said:
Not really. It’s happened for a lot of sports cars after reaching 15 years of age.
What's your evidence for that, out of interest?Renault R26/182, M3 E36/E43, all Impreza, Sklyines and Evo.s for example. All of them stopped dropping around that age and started creeping up a few short years later.
Just for the record, I’m not drawing parallels with cars like the 996 GT3 that increase significantly, just cars that become depreciation proof as good examples don’t drop any more.
Hol said:
Just for the record, I’m not drawing parallels with cars like the 996 GT3 that increase significantly, just cars that become depreciation proof as good examples don’t drop any more.
Well, as a matter of demonstrable fact, the earliest 987.1 Caymans are now 19 years old. It's also objectively true that values of 987.1 Caymans are lower today than last year or the year before. The earliest 987.2 Caymans are now 15 years old and they have been dropping for the last two years, too. With all that in mind, how you can convince yourself they're appreciating, I have no idea. It's clearly not happening and it's very unlikely to happen in the next few years. Maybe they'll start creeping up in about five years. But I suspect they won't move much for at least 10 years. Even the Cayman R has been flat in numerical terms and has fallen quite a bit over the last few years factoring in inflation. And like I said, early 996s and 986s are nigh on 30 years old now and should be well up the appreciation curve if you're theory is right. But they're not, so it clearly isn't.
andrewcliffe said:
Thats good to know. My experience with LED's has been mixed with a car that gave a patchy beam pattern which was like (I assume) driving with cateracts. There is also the worry of whether they would pass an MoT.
It may depend on the bulbs you use. I've had LEDs in reflector units give patchy results. But LEDs in the 987's projectors have worked well. As I said, with the right bulbs, it's not hard to beat the factory xenons, which are pretty poor by modern standards.Zero chance of failing an MOT on the dipped beam bulbs, which are not themselves visible without pulling the headlamp unit and then bulb. Which they would have no cause to do and indeed isn't something they do. It simply isn't going to happen.
The high beam bulbs are visible, but I am unaware of any database which MOT testers can reference to tell them LED bulbs were not factory fit, so I really can't see how they would fail them. I've MOT'ed a 987.2 with LEDs in both lamps and passed, so think it's a non issue.
Monkeylegend said:
paulguitar said:
Monkeylegend said:
paulguitar said:
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Gen 2 entirely different engine altogether
It's an entirely different engine.
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Monkeylegend said:
paulguitar said:
Monkeylegend said:
paulguitar said:
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Gen 2 entirely different engine altogether
It's an entirely different engine.Hol said:
Other drivers cars that reach the bottom of their market price at around that time.
Renault R26/182, M3 E36/E43, all Impreza, Sklyines and Evo.s for example. All of them stopped dropping around that age and started creeping up a few short years later.
Just for the record, I’m not drawing parallels with cars like the 996 GT3 that increase significantly, just cars that become depreciation proof as good examples don’t drop any more.
Do any of these cars quoted have much in common with a Gen 1 Cayman ? I have a friend who missed the Boat with the Ford RS "boom" and realising at the time that the Japanese Rally inspired machinery were vastly undervalued stuck his money there . At last count and I haven't seen him since early summer he had six various Models and as you say has saw some increase in values . Hard to see that happening with most CaymansRenault R26/182, M3 E36/E43, all Impreza, Sklyines and Evo.s for example. All of them stopped dropping around that age and started creeping up a few short years later.
Just for the record, I’m not drawing parallels with cars like the 996 GT3 that increase significantly, just cars that become depreciation proof as good examples don’t drop any more.
reddiesel said:
Hol said:
Other drivers cars that reach the bottom of their market price at around that time.
Renault R26/182, M3 E36/E43, all Impreza, Sklyines and Evo.s for example. All of them stopped dropping around that age and started creeping up a few short years later.
Just for the record, I’m not drawing parallels with cars like the 996 GT3 that increase significantly, just cars that become depreciation proof as good examples don’t drop any more.
Do any of these cars quoted have much in common with a Gen 1 Cayman ? I have a friend who missed the Boat with the Ford RS "boom" and realising at the time that the Japanese Rally inspired machinery were vastly undervalued stuck his money there . At last count and I haven't seen him since early summer he had six various Models and as you say has saw some increase in values . Hard to see that happening with most CaymansRenault R26/182, M3 E36/E43, all Impreza, Sklyines and Evo.s for example. All of them stopped dropping around that age and started creeping up a few short years later.
Just for the record, I’m not drawing parallels with cars like the 996 GT3 that increase significantly, just cars that become depreciation proof as good examples don’t drop any more.
SV_WDC said:
I agree, don't rule out the gen 2, 2.9 engine. You'll be doing the speed limit in second gear anyway so something to consider.
Gen 1 CS yes bore scores, the 2.7 less of an issue for this but worth checking the service history & potentially some sort of PDI if buying privately.
If you search 'Porsche Cayman buyers guide,' then both Pistonheads & PCGB have detailed articles on what to look for, as well as informing you on replacement costs.
I kind of agree with this sentiment. I only have a 986S and was adamant I had to have the S. Don't regret my choices, but having driven a well sorted 986 2.7, Cayman 2.7 and Cayman S since, I wouldn't hesitate to have the "lower model" instead in the future. As much as I love the S, I never really use all the power. I actually found the 2.7 so much more engaging and rewarding to drive. If I was tracking the car then S is the way to go, but public roads there's not enough of a delta in my eyes.Gen 1 CS yes bore scores, the 2.7 less of an issue for this but worth checking the service history & potentially some sort of PDI if buying privately.
If you search 'Porsche Cayman buyers guide,' then both Pistonheads & PCGB have detailed articles on what to look for, as well as informing you on replacement costs.
A potential solution to the OPs problem though is to buy a cheap Cayman S (£5-6k) with a problem then send it to Hartech for a 3.7 rebuild.
Jayho said:
SV_WDC said:
I agree, don't rule out the gen 2, 2.9 engine. You'll be doing the speed limit in second gear anyway so something to consider.
Gen 1 CS yes bore scores, the 2.7 less of an issue for this but worth checking the service history & potentially some sort of PDI if buying privately.
If you search 'Porsche Cayman buyers guide,' then both Pistonheads & PCGB have detailed articles on what to look for, as well as informing you on replacement costs.
I kind of agree with this sentiment. I only have a 986S and was adamant I had to have the S. Don't regret my choices, but having driven a well sorted 986 2.7, Cayman 2.7 and Cayman S since, I wouldn't hesitate to have the "lower model" instead in the future. As much as I love the S, I never really use all the power. I actually found the 2.7 so much more engaging and rewarding to drive. If I was tracking the car then S is the way to go, but public roads there's not enough of a delta in my eyes.Gen 1 CS yes bore scores, the 2.7 less of an issue for this but worth checking the service history & potentially some sort of PDI if buying privately.
If you search 'Porsche Cayman buyers guide,' then both Pistonheads & PCGB have detailed articles on what to look for, as well as informing you on replacement costs.
A potential solution to the OPs problem though is to buy a cheap Cayman S (£5-6k) with a problem then send it to Hartech for a 3.7 rebuild.
Jayho said:
A potential solution to the OPs problem though is to buy a cheap Cayman S (£5-6k) with a problem then send it to Hartech for a 3.7 rebuild.
Not sure the manmaths would work.Hartech standard rebuild with appopriate closed deck liners and new pistons is £ 12k plus cost of car. An increased capacity engine could be around £ 20k.
paulguitar said:
Jayho said:
SV_WDC said:
I agree, don't rule out the gen 2, 2.9 engine. You'll be doing the speed limit in second gear anyway so something to consider.
Gen 1 CS yes bore scores, the 2.7 less of an issue for this but worth checking the service history & potentially some sort of PDI if buying privately.
If you search 'Porsche Cayman buyers guide,' then both Pistonheads & PCGB have detailed articles on what to look for, as well as informing you on replacement costs.
I kind of agree with this sentiment. I only have a 986S and was adamant I had to have the S. Don't regret my choices, but having driven a well sorted 986 2.7, Cayman 2.7 and Cayman S since, I wouldn't hesitate to have the "lower model" instead in the future. As much as I love the S, I never really use all the power. I actually found the 2.7 so much more engaging and rewarding to drive. If I was tracking the car then S is the way to go, but public roads there's not enough of a delta in my eyes.Gen 1 CS yes bore scores, the 2.7 less of an issue for this but worth checking the service history & potentially some sort of PDI if buying privately.
If you search 'Porsche Cayman buyers guide,' then both Pistonheads & PCGB have detailed articles on what to look for, as well as informing you on replacement costs.
A potential solution to the OPs problem though is to buy a cheap Cayman S (£5-6k) with a problem then send it to Hartech for a 3.7 rebuild.
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