Panamera Depreciation

[GT03ROB]

Desert Dragon said:

GT03ROB said:

Desert Dragon said:

Personally I think you need to be mad to buy and run something like this without an OPC warranty unless you have oily fingers and a masters in electronics.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

However, what you don't read much of on here are concerns about Panamera reliability.

….. running 3 Porsches, a Lotus & a Range Rover without any warranties.... I should be broke by now using most PH logic!!

Do not tempt fate my friend

[Cheib]

RR50 said:

Cheib said:

I was in OPC Hatfield yesterday....amongst their new cars they had three Panamera’s on display which is unusual especially as two were Turbo’s in identical spec. Guessing their new showroom car had come through and they hadn’t found a home yet for the previous one.

What colours were they?

OPC Mayfair have a black/black/black Panamera Turbo specced up to £158k! You could probably get a nice deal on that.

[RR50]

£158K!!! I think I would rather have a Turbo S with a few options.

[Mosdef]

My previous generation Turbo S was around £160k when new back in late 2014. Fortunately I picked it up for just under half that when it was 2.5 years old.

Matching the spec I have on mine (which runs to six pages and includes some fairly silly items such as a leather trimmed rear view mirror, but oddly, no rear wiper), the new one would cost £176k. 10% inflation over around 5 years isn't bad but regardless of the spec and as nice as they are, Panameras don't feel like £150k+ cars to me. That said, E63s and M5s don't feel like £90k cars to me, so maybe I'm far behind the times.

[irfan1712]

I recently moved on from a current generation 4S V8 Diesel Panamera. Bought it for £79k and part ex'd it for £73k 5 months later for a year old E63s. The list on m ycar was £117k after options - a year and a half in and it had lost nearly £30k. It was sublime in almost every way other than the engine. Despite being the worlds fastest diesel car at the time and having so much grunt, it was just stale and characterless - it was my first taste of 'spicy diesel' ownership and I wouldn't try it again.

Mine has circa £25k of options.. in my ownership it went in twice for infotainment glitches and to sort out the PASM air suspension which was sitting uneven. Certainly wouldn't run one without a valid Porsche warranty for sure.

I bought it from an OPC. This time last summer it was quite obvious frommy enquires that nearly all OPCs and even 3rd party dealers were getting itchy feet about keeping an form of Diesel Porsche in their inventory, as I the week I signed the deal on mine Porsche announced no more diesel engines.

I think this gen Panamera will certainly nose dive but because their far more desirable and a humungous step up from the old one I don't think they'll be as bad. When I'm finished with the E63s I will certainly be looking into a Turbo S Turismo.

[Mosdef]

irfan1712 said:

I recently moved on from a current generation 4S V8 Diesel Panamera. Bought it for £79k and part ex'd it for £73k 5 months later for a year old E63s. The list on m ycar was £117k after options - a year and a half in and it had lost nearly £30k. It was sublime in almost every way other than the engine. Despite being the worlds fastest diesel car at the time and having so much grunt, it was just stale and characterless - it was my first taste of 'spicy diesel' ownership and I wouldn't try it again.

Mine has circa £25k of options.. in my ownership it went in twice for infotainment glitches and to sort out the PASM air suspension which was sitting uneven. Certainly wouldn't run one without a valid Porsche warranty for sure.

I bought it from an OPC. This time last summer it was quite obvious frommy enquires that nearly all OPCs and even 3rd party dealers were getting itchy feet about keeping an form of Diesel Porsche in their inventory, as I the week I signed the deal on mine Porsche announced no more diesel engines.

I think this gen Panamera will certainly nose dive but because their far more desirable and a humungous step up from the old one I don't think they'll be as bad. When I'm finished with the E63s I will certainly be looking into a Turbo S Turismo.

Sounds like you had a good result and I remember seeing your car on another thread - it looked fantastic! I wouldn't run one without a warranty either, but the same goes for any high performance / high end car I suppose.

The prices for the new generation Panamera diesels are definitely softening and I saw Tewksbury have one for a shade under £70k, which is one of the cheapest ones on Autotrader, let alone in the Porsche network. I think all these cars are going through a fairly large price adjustment and really, RRP is no longer irrelevant. As you will know better than most, lightly used E63s and M5s are way off list price and the dealer contributions and discounts can be huge, particularly on the non-Competition Pack M5s. From what I can gather a £95k list price translates into an effective price of around £75k before options.

Turbo S Turismo must be an absolutely fantastic car, best hybrid yet I expect.

[Desert Dragon]

Mosdef said:

irfan1712 said:

I recently moved on from a current generation 4S V8 Diesel Panamera. Bought it for £79k and part ex'd it for £73k 5 months later for a year old E63s. The list on m ycar was £117k after options - a year and a half in and it had lost nearly £30k. It was sublime in almost every way other than the engine. Despite being the worlds fastest diesel car at the time and having so much grunt, it was just stale and characterless - it was my first taste of 'spicy diesel' ownership and I wouldn't try it again.

Mine has circa £25k of options.. in my ownership it went in twice for infotainment glitches and to sort out the PASM air suspension which was sitting uneven. Certainly wouldn't run one without a valid Porsche warranty for sure.

I bought it from an OPC. This time last summer it was quite obvious frommy enquires that nearly all OPCs and even 3rd party dealers were getting itchy feet about keeping an form of Diesel Porsche in their inventory, as I the week I signed the deal on mine Porsche announced no more diesel engines.

I think this gen Panamera will certainly nose dive but because their far more desirable and a humungous step up from the old one I don't think they'll be as bad. When I'm finished with the E63s I will certainly be looking into a Turbo S Turismo.

Sounds like you had a good result and I remember seeing your car on another thread - it looked fantastic! I wouldn't run one without a warranty either, but the same goes for any high performance / high end car I suppose.

The prices for the new generation Panamera diesels are definitely softening and I saw Tewksbury have one for a shade under £70k, which is one of the cheapest ones on Autotrader, let alone in the Porsche network. I think all these cars are going through a fairly large price adjustment and really, RRP is no longer irrelevant. As you will know better than most, lightly used E63s and M5s are way off list price and the dealer contributions and discounts can be huge, particularly on the non-Competition Pack M5s. From what I can gather a £95k list price translates into an effective price of around £75k before options.

Turbo S Turismo must be an absolutely fantastic car, best hybrid yet I expect.

Tad surprised you've not told this AMG owner his car has fake leather, cheap interior, crap residuals and a chav mobile.

[Cheib]

I’ve found a delivery mileage/pre-registered GTS Sport Turismo for £10k below list at an OPC....obviously they’ve had it a while. Tempted to see how low they will go. Still be a very expensive car to own.

[Mosdef]

Desert Dragon said:

Tad surprised you've not told this AMG owner his car has fake leather, cheap interior, crap residuals and a chav mobile.

Please don’t start that again!

Actually, I’m getting rid of my Panamera and replacing it with a Golf.

Irfan has had both a new Panamera and a new E63. Interesting to see his views in this thread:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Edited by Mosdef on Thursday 9th May 22:06

[Desert Dragon]

Interesting. I always felt the 4.2 diesel a brilliant engine. 38 mpg in a package like that vs 12-14mpg in the E63s. Not sure that was a clever trade unless they're leased vehicles

[irfan1712]

Mosdef said:

Sounds like you had a good result and I remember seeing your car on another thread - it looked fantastic! I wouldn't run one without a warranty either, but the same goes for any high performance / high end car I suppose.

The prices for the new generation Panamera diesels are definitely softening and I saw Tewksbury have one for a shade under £70k, which is one of the cheapest ones on Autotrader, let alone in the Porsche network. I think all these cars are going through a fairly large price adjustment and really, RRP is no longer irrelevant. As you will know better than most, lightly used E63s and M5s are way off list price and the dealer contributions and discounts can be huge, particularly on the non-Competition Pack M5s. From what I can gather a £95k list price translates into an effective price of around £75k before options.

Turbo S Turismo must be an absolutely fantastic car, best hybrid yet I expect.

It certainly was - I was expecting to take a right kick in getting out of a car so early but it wasn't as bad as I thought. If I do that in an AMG or M car I think i'd know about it. I constantly nose at Panamera prices and I still think the prices are all over the place especially regarding the 4S diesel - its quite haard to distinguish if I had a very good deal or if it was over priced considering less spec'd cars seem to be still sat at £80k despite being a few months newer! bizarre.

Lots of good deals on the M5s especially competition cars already hitting the £80k's already. Scarry but we all know which way they'll be going and how fast they get there!

Desert Dragon said:

Tad surprised you've not told this AMG owner his car has fake leather, cheap interior, crap residuals and a chav mobile.

Really hurt my feelings that! Nevermind .My Driveway isn't too bad for someone who hasn't hit 30 yet, despite all that fake leather, cheap interior and looking so chavy haha.

Desert Dragon said:

Interesting. I always felt the 4.2 diesel a brilliant engine. 38 mpg in a package like that vs 12-14mpg in the E63s. Not sure that was a clever trade unless they're leased vehicles

all good and well, but the engine in the Panamera is the 4.0 out of the SQ7, not the Cayennes 4.2. It was brilliant.. for a diesel. And I guess that was my problem, I just didn't gel with a high performance diesel engine - the whole set up didn't make much sense no matter how much the numbers made sense.

as for 12-14mpg in an E63, your being a little bit silly. I haven't got less than 20mpg absolutely shovelling it for miles around Brecon on a Sunday morning hoon. My trip currently shows a 23mpg average over 9k miles of ownership. Respectful number for a two tonne 600bhp saloon really. Oh and fuel is covered by work, so it was certainly a clever trade in

[Desert Dragon]

That’s fantastic MPG for a nigh on 2 tonne car with 600bhp. I love the E63s by the way

[r1flyguy1]

GT03ROB said:

I bought my 2012 Turbo S last year so at 6yrs old.

I guess after the previous owner had paid the dealer his cut, he'd probably shed in the region of 80-90k in 6 years & 12k miles.

So you picked up a 2012 Turbo S for £60K or am I misunderstanding your depreciation calculation. New, circa £140-£150k minus the 80-90k

Im guessing its the last of the 997 models

[GT03ROB]

r1flyguy1 said:

GT03ROB said:

I bought my 2012 Turbo S last year so at 6yrs old.

I guess after the previous owner had paid the dealer his cut, he'd probably shed in the region of 80-90k in 6 years & 12k miles.

So you picked up a 2012 Turbo S for £60K or am I misunderstanding your depreciation calculation. New, circa £140-£150k minus the 80-90k

Im guessing its the last of the 997 models

Ergh... we are talking Panameras so 997s have nothing to do with it, I have the original sales receipt listing the car at around 130k, I know what I paid for it from a dealer, make a guess at their margin & come to my assessment of the depreciation which I doubt is far off. I didn't pay close to 60k.

[r1flyguy1]

GT03ROB said:

r1flyguy1 said:

GT03ROB said:

I bought my 2012 Turbo S last year so at 6yrs old.

I guess after the previous owner had paid the dealer his cut, he'd probably shed in the region of 80-90k in 6 years & 12k miles.

So you picked up a 2012 Turbo S for £60K or am I misunderstanding your depreciation calculation. New, circa £140-£150k minus the 80-90k

Im guessing its the last of the 997 models

Ergh... we are talking Panameras so 997s have nothing to do with it, I have the original sales receipt listing the car at around 130k, I know what I paid for it from a dealer, make a guess at their margin & come to my assessment of the depreciation which I doubt is far off. I didn't pay close to 60k.

Yep, apologies, i saw your username and was reading a thread before this one on the 991 so got my threads mixed up.

[A1VDY]

GT03ROB said:

However, what you don't read much of on here are concerns about Panamera reliability.

….. running 3 Porsches, a Lotus & a Range Rover without any warranties.... I should be broke by now using most PH logic!!

Worst pretending Im Lord of the Manor Post ever..

[av185]

irfan1712 said:

I bought it from an OPC. This time last summer it was quite obvious frommy enquires that nearly all OPCs and even 3rd party dealers were getting itchy feet about keeping an form of Diesel Porsche in their inventory, as I the week I signed the deal on mine Porsche announced no more diesel engines.

This could well have the opposite effect as prices could firm up due to restricted supply. Same with many other diesels atm.

I sold a mega spec (but no pan roof) 66 plate 3k miler black black otr list £130k last Autumn for £80k and dealers were desperate for the car.

[irfan1712]

I agree with that in theory, but I just can’t see that happening with a diesel car with all the scare mongering cack that we are faced with, with regards to diesels and their future.

I assume the only way they will go is down and down again really. Being Euro 6 (or is it 7, I forget!) they are the cleanest version of a diesel which does support their case some what though. Funny one really - diesel range rovers and the like aren’t going anywhere and hold their value regardless, Audi are introducing diesel ‘S’ cars. Weird. Time will tell!

[frozen-in-wiltshire]

GT03ROB said:

They are big 4 door gas guzzlers. Its a sector that does not hold value well. Nice buy 2nd hand though.

agree with this - same thing with big merc saloons too - catastrophic depreciation from new - then bottom out at a sensible level after 4-5 years or so.
I reckon it's just how that market segment is.

[XMA Simon]

irfan1712 said:

I recently moved on from a current generation 4S V8 Diesel Panamera. Bought it for £79k and part ex'd it for £73k 5 months later for a year old E63s. The list on m ycar was £117k after options - a year and a half in and it had lost nearly £30k. It was sublime in almost every way other than the engine. Despite being the worlds fastest diesel car at the time and having so much grunt, it was just stale and characterless - it was my first taste of 'spicy diesel' ownership and I wouldn't try it again.

Mine has circa £25k of options.. in my ownership it went in twice for infotainment glitches and to sort out the PASM air suspension which was sitting uneven. Certainly wouldn't run one without a valid Porsche warranty for sure.

I bought it from an OPC. This time last summer it was quite obvious frommy enquires that nearly all OPCs and even 3rd party dealers were getting itchy feet about keeping an form of Diesel Porsche in their inventory, as I the week I signed the deal on mine Porsche announced no more diesel engines.

I think this gen Panamera will certainly nose dive but because their far more desirable and a humungous step up from the old one I don't think they'll be as bad. When I'm finished with the E63s I will certainly be looking into a Turbo S Turismo.

Resurecting an old post, but to say this is a useful comment. I've been looking at used Panameras and there is a nicely specced 4S Diesel on the Porsche website. I previously owned a 530d for a few weeks. It was so boring to drive that I got rid of it. I was helped by the fact that it was suffering all sorts of electric gremlins that the dealer could not fix so I was fortunate to get 100% of my cash back! I am wary of repeating the same mistake and getting a fast but dull Panamera.

Dealer is telling me that Porsche now sign contracts offering to buy back diesel cars at a "fair market rate" in the event that a car they sell is banned by the government over environmental changes. Even so, I can imagine that part-exchanging a Diesel back to a Porsche dealer will be difficult / they will not want it. Indeed the car I am looking at (or should I say was looking at) is on sale or return rather than being dealer inventory.

Yeah maybe a petrol Turbo saloon or Turismo that someone else has gone bonkers on, but has taken the first hit on. Maybe that is best.