968 clubsport or 944 turbo

[s m]

blade7 said:

Must have felt like an air cooled 911 .

Yes, the contemporary 911 was supposed to be pretty hairy if you were inexperienced

[IMI A]

blade7 said:

I get the 911 thing, but a 997 turbo makes a lot more sense to me than a 3.2 or a 964. Sure they sound and look better than a 944 turbo, but they're flawed aren't they. I remember being all over a 964 in my chipped RS Cosworth 30 years ago, and a 944 turbo is a better engineered car than a 3 door Cosworth.

The 997 turbo is very similar to a 944 turbo IMO in many ways and I have never thought of it like that before. The 944 and 997 turbo are both fast comfortable private jets. The air cooled are second world war fighter planes.

Best mate's dad had Sapphire after 3 door Cosworth nicked off drive one night. Comparing it to 944 turbo embarrassing. Fast jet vs tractor in term of engineering and build quality. Love both. Mate snuck out in Sapphire one night after passing his driving test. Yep wrapped it around lamp post. Feckers still grounded and he's now 50

[s m]

IMI A said:

The 997 turbo is very similar to a 944 turbo IMO in many ways and I have never thought of it like that before. The 944 and 997 turbo are both fast comfortable private jets. The air cooled are second world war fighter planes.

Best mate's dad had Sapphire after 3 door Cosworth nicked off drive one night. Comparing it to 944 turbo embarrassing. Fast jet vs tractor in term of engineering and build quality. Love both. Mate snuck out in Sapphire one night after passing his driving test. Yep wrapped it around lamp post. Feckers still grounded and he's now 50

Sapphire was an E30 M3/Mercedes 190 2.5-16 competitor really - hence all the comparison tests where it did pretty well against them in terms of performance/handling. These were all 200bhp 3-box saloon cars with 4 seats, a boot and weighing 1200-1300kg

Don’t think they were ever marketed to compete with the 911/944 Turbo which were over double the money and had a significant wodge more power

[IMI A]

I think the 944 turbo was more than double than Sierra Cosworth. Our Sept 88 944 turbo with 250bhp was 40k I think from memory. Cosworth was less than 20k I think? Comparable performance though which is astonishing for the Ford. Real hero car.

[s m]

IMI A said:

I think the 944 turbo was more than double than Sierra Cosworth. Our Sept 88 944 turbo with 250bhp was 40k I think from memory. Cosworth was less than 20k I think? Comparable performance though which is astonishing for the Ford. Real hero car.

Yep, that was about right certainly in 88 when the 250bhp 944 Turbo was on sale
The Sapphire was really to take on sports saloons in the market rather than bespoke sportsters like the 911/944
The only time I can really remember them being compared to the 944 was in a couple of handling tests and they used the slower 944 S2

[s m]

I remember CAR compared the 220bhp 944 Turbo to a 911 Carrera in 85, then the 250bhp was in a group test with the 911 Turbo and 928S4 in early 89
Performance Car pitted the 220bhp and 250bhp versions against Ferraris

Autocar had the 250bhp Turbo up against a 911 Carrera CS

[IMI A]

Wow I read that Autocar article in period. Didn't agree with it at the time as when we raced a 3.2 Carrera or 911 turbo on road destroyed them

[IMI A]

There was a fellow on here on track in Porsche Cup. Demolished everything. Even 996 GT3 let alone F car kicked him out of the PC in the end when they couldn't win in 911 - loved it - same on road felt way more than 250bhp to me TBH and never messed with mine. Was just fast out of the box.

[Wozy68]

Previous 968 CS owner here. A proper one with the OEM race seats and LSD. I absolutly loved that car.

If ever a car could handle another 50-75HP easily it was the 968. I only sold it eventually because 250HP was just not enough for that chassis and it felt (acceleration and especially on overtake) slow.

I'm pretty damn sure Porsche knew with more bhp it would run circles around a 911 of that era. (Says he who now owns a 911 from that era ) and so never did anything with it other than building a very limited number with a Turbo strapped to the engine.

[944 Man]

951 vs 968: 951. I have owned both, when far, far cleaner, fresher and newer.

Club Sport myth will continue to drive up prices, dragging those of every other 968 with them. Even 968 Cabriolet Tiptronic turds are benefiting from this now and they are awful cars. Every 968 part is offered at comedy prices, too.

It will continue because people want it and no one wants to hear peoples' experience which does not fit this 968 is the second automotive coming narrative.

[Wozy68]

944 Man said:

951 vs 968: 951. I have owned both, when far, far cleaner, fresher and newer.

Club Sport myth will continue to drive up prices, dragging those of every other 968 with them. Even 968 Cabriolet Tiptronic turds are benefiting from this now and they are awful cars. Every 968 part is offered at comedy prices, too.

It will continue because people want it and no one wants to hear peoples' experience which does not fit this 968 is the second automotive coming narrative.

I have to agree. The CS was a lovely car but not serious money lovely car. Saying that, with old MK 1/2/3 Mini Coopers from the sixites going for utter mad money when they built something like 72K of them and Ive owned one of those as well and they aint worth nowhere near the value they are now either.

The CS at least value today maybe partially because they made so few.

[944 Man]

Ford values do rather make a nonsense of FrontRunner's worth arguments.

[ChrisW.]

IMI A said:

There was a fellow on here on track in Porsche Cup. Demolished everything. Even 996 GT3 let alone F car kicked him out of the PC in the end when they couldn't win in 911 - loved it - same on road felt way more than 250bhp to me TBH and never messed with mine. Was just fast out of the box.

There was some speculation that the performance was rather better with the front wheels rolling than when they were static on a rolling road (as (and when) tested as it performed so strongly in competition). These cars are so robust that 300bhp really isn't a problem and as all have observed, the chassis can cope with far more than this.

[diametric123]

Current 968CS owner (along with other relevant Porsche models)

The 968 is slow. Slower than an 80s Carrera. Far slower than anything newer

You not buy a 968CS for speed. It is incredibly raw, has wonderful buckets, is best driven hard and looks like a lightweight car is meant to (ie like they ripped parts out of a regular car rather than designed it from scratch)

It’s also the only nice car I have that I would let my kids drive. And it has pop-up lights!

[diametric123]

There’s absolutely no doubt I am not doing it right with the 968!

That said, my Carrera is a 3.2 Clubsport and that feels very nippy...

[IMI A]

They are nippy the Carrera. I had a 3.2 for a while that had been really well set up but wasn't a CS which is a bit lighter, nippier and more special. The 944 can not live with the CS for drama and character but real world pace turbo far quicker. I get why the CS have gone crazy though and 944 has not. Its not just numbers / stats they are a truly unique experience and very cool. Good to see more interest in front runners.

[944 Man]

Sorry Imi, that is 968 myth and hyperbole. The 968 CS is not a light car and it's handling does not differ in any material way from the 944 that preceded it. The only real difference is the rear dampers on the M030 cars (most were not).

[IMI A]

944 Man said:

Sorry Imi, that is 968 myth and hyperbole. The 968 CS is not a light car and it's handling does not differ in any material way from the 944 that preceded it. The only real difference is the rear dampers on the M030 cars (most were not).

Sos mean Carrera CS in Autocar article earlier not 968 CS. Same engine as S2 nice but no turbo IMO

[IMI A]

There were a few guys who turbo charged 968 CS though. I imagine fun with modern trick turbo and intercooler on Cup 2 rubber. Needs bit of oomph 968CS never sure why they only made a 17 968 turbo s out of the factory but sales were slow I remember at the time. I think Baz has a 3.0 engine knocking about with a 16v head ready for turbo charging?

[944 Man]

I believe that that has gone to Pat for his Time Attack 951.