F430 LHD - Buying advice
Discussion
The HR Owen car is my old car which I recently sold to them.
I can vouch for the history, condition, and specification, incidentally the highest specification car for sale (probably!)
I looked at 4 F430s in the EU and had countless conversations with people about cars for sale. I finally bought that car, and it was inspected by Ferrari at the time of purchase, where it had also been serviced and had a new clutch. It's a lot harder to find "Full Service history" In the EU, the mentality is different, if they dont use a car, they dont service it. My car had 4 services in 7 years and 35k km. It should have had 7 if it were done by the book.
Of course there is a premium for RHD cars, but when you drive a LHD car back from the EU, it really teaches you how to drive it, I did 3000 miles in 6 months and had no issues driving in the UK.
Happy to help anyone who wants guidance on bringing one over. Although the Euro at 1.3 makes it less compelling.
I can vouch for the history, condition, and specification, incidentally the highest specification car for sale (probably!)
I looked at 4 F430s in the EU and had countless conversations with people about cars for sale. I finally bought that car, and it was inspected by Ferrari at the time of purchase, where it had also been serviced and had a new clutch. It's a lot harder to find "Full Service history" In the EU, the mentality is different, if they dont use a car, they dont service it. My car had 4 services in 7 years and 35k km. It should have had 7 if it were done by the book.
Of course there is a premium for RHD cars, but when you drive a LHD car back from the EU, it really teaches you how to drive it, I did 3000 miles in 6 months and had no issues driving in the UK.
Happy to help anyone who wants guidance on bringing one over. Although the Euro at 1.3 makes it less compelling.
911F said:
The HR Owen car is my old car which I recently sold to them.
I can vouch for the history, condition, and specification, incidentally the highest specification car for sale (probably!)
I looked at 4 F430s in the EU and had countless conversations with people about cars for sale. I finally bought that car, and it was inspected by Ferrari at the time of purchase, where it had also been serviced and had a new clutch. It's a lot harder to find "Full Service history" In the EU, the mentality is different, if they dont use a car, they dont service it. My car had 4 services in 7 years and 35k km. It should have had 7 if it were done by the book.
Of course there is a premium for RHD cars, but when you drive a LHD car back from the EU, it really teaches you how to drive it, I did 3000 miles in 6 months and had no issues driving in the UK.
Happy to help anyone who wants guidance on bringing one over. Although the Euro at 1.3 makes it less compelling.
Agreed, it's a nice specc'ed car, was it sourced in Germany, correct? I tried to send you an email through PH a couple of days ago, no idea if you received it ? (maybe I had the same issue when tried to email Joseph)I can vouch for the history, condition, and specification, incidentally the highest specification car for sale (probably!)
I looked at 4 F430s in the EU and had countless conversations with people about cars for sale. I finally bought that car, and it was inspected by Ferrari at the time of purchase, where it had also been serviced and had a new clutch. It's a lot harder to find "Full Service history" In the EU, the mentality is different, if they dont use a car, they dont service it. My car had 4 services in 7 years and 35k km. It should have had 7 if it were done by the book.
Of course there is a premium for RHD cars, but when you drive a LHD car back from the EU, it really teaches you how to drive it, I did 3000 miles in 6 months and had no issues driving in the UK.
Happy to help anyone who wants guidance on bringing one over. Although the Euro at 1.3 makes it less compelling.
Thanks,
F
paulmnz said:
I bought one in november (at 1.41 exchange rate). for the same reasons as your looking at it - occasional use, mostly euro driving, don't want to loose a lot of money. I do about 5,000 miles a year driving in europe on the 'wrong side of the road' in RHD cars, so have no real problem with driving a LHD here in the UK for the times I do want to use it here. As to the LHD effect on prices in the UK, I think you need to buy well - going to the hassle of importing it yourself should mean your 'up' to start with against the other already imported LHD cars in the UK so you have some wiggle room when you sell.
I bought mine privately in Germany from a lovely older gentleman, it was his pride and joy - he was a full-on ferrari club guy with lanyards, hats, umbrellas and ferrari signs in his garage where the car parks... him and his wife were sad to see it go (although he is replacing it with a 458 I believe). He lives less than a mile from the autobahn, so needless to say I was able to confirm it works correctly at high speed.. Mine is a very good mid 2007 car with only 2 owners, ferrari serivce history, low miles and most of the expensive options including carbon brakes and the carbon race seats which are rare in UK cars - it was only registered for use in the summer months (they have special 'summer' plates). I bought it for significantly less money than the cheapest low-spec high miles 2005 RHD car would have cost. This is including all my import costs (flights, rental car, hotels, eurotunnel, money tranfer fees, fuel to get back, german and uk registration). For resale, I figure its better to have a desirable LHD car than a bargain-basement spec leggy RHD one - time will tell if I'm right!
I bought the first car I saw in person after about 3 months of research and phoning up about cars. Germany in my opinion is the best / easiest place to buy from, I did also enquire about french, spanish and italian cars. Germans are quite literal about everything including how they describe cars and service history, unlike some other dealers / individuals I spoke to in other countries
Doing your research will save a lot of money with wasted trips - I can see how lots of trips to see dud cars would erode the financial upside from sourcing a car yourself. German history is also quite detailed with actual 'registered owner' docs unlike our V5 'keeper' docs and the TUV (MOT) test is also more strict.
I would agree that europeans tend to service their cars differently - based on mileage - most I enquired about had official ferrari stamps at the correct mileage intervals, but not 'yearly' like UK cars.
As for the buying process - I arranged to see my car / test drive it one weekday, negotiated a deal, paid a deposit... came back in two weeks after picking the best possible exchange rate (I used transferwise to pay btw, saved over £2k on bank fees / inflated rates).
Decided to drive it back to the UK myself as an ideal 'lemon test' - easier to sort out any problems while the car is still in europe. They helped me with the German export paperwork (you have to register it on export plates which is quite hard to figure out without speaking German).
I was planning to use a specialist to do the import work, but I've actually done it all myself - it's very straight forward. a specialist can save some time, but I couldn't justify the cost in the end especially at this time of year when I'm in no hurry to drive it. Order a free 'importing a car pack' from the DVLA and see for yourself before getting someone else to do it.
BTW, If you need any advice on what to look for inspecting a car yourself (or need someone to look at a car for you) - Voicey is your man, he knows the F430 inside out and clearly has a handle on values. He has been very helpful to me and it was his value index and website that got me interested in buying one.
Thanks a lot, have you heard about the difference in how EU owners use their cars? I've heard from several people that German owners will likely to very picky at the time of buying the car but at the same time, they will drive the car more "intensively" relative to French or Italians (i.e. not in miles-term but in general use). Autobahn would probably explains why? I don't know whether is something you heard as well, as part of your due-diligence?I bought mine privately in Germany from a lovely older gentleman, it was his pride and joy - he was a full-on ferrari club guy with lanyards, hats, umbrellas and ferrari signs in his garage where the car parks... him and his wife were sad to see it go (although he is replacing it with a 458 I believe). He lives less than a mile from the autobahn, so needless to say I was able to confirm it works correctly at high speed.. Mine is a very good mid 2007 car with only 2 owners, ferrari serivce history, low miles and most of the expensive options including carbon brakes and the carbon race seats which are rare in UK cars - it was only registered for use in the summer months (they have special 'summer' plates). I bought it for significantly less money than the cheapest low-spec high miles 2005 RHD car would have cost. This is including all my import costs (flights, rental car, hotels, eurotunnel, money tranfer fees, fuel to get back, german and uk registration). For resale, I figure its better to have a desirable LHD car than a bargain-basement spec leggy RHD one - time will tell if I'm right!
I bought the first car I saw in person after about 3 months of research and phoning up about cars. Germany in my opinion is the best / easiest place to buy from, I did also enquire about french, spanish and italian cars. Germans are quite literal about everything including how they describe cars and service history, unlike some other dealers / individuals I spoke to in other countries
Doing your research will save a lot of money with wasted trips - I can see how lots of trips to see dud cars would erode the financial upside from sourcing a car yourself. German history is also quite detailed with actual 'registered owner' docs unlike our V5 'keeper' docs and the TUV (MOT) test is also more strict.I would agree that europeans tend to service their cars differently - based on mileage - most I enquired about had official ferrari stamps at the correct mileage intervals, but not 'yearly' like UK cars.
As for the buying process - I arranged to see my car / test drive it one weekday, negotiated a deal, paid a deposit... came back in two weeks after picking the best possible exchange rate (I used transferwise to pay btw, saved over £2k on bank fees / inflated rates).
Decided to drive it back to the UK myself as an ideal 'lemon test' - easier to sort out any problems while the car is still in europe. They helped me with the German export paperwork (you have to register it on export plates which is quite hard to figure out without speaking German).
I was planning to use a specialist to do the import work, but I've actually done it all myself - it's very straight forward. a specialist can save some time, but I couldn't justify the cost in the end especially at this time of year when I'm in no hurry to drive it. Order a free 'importing a car pack' from the DVLA and see for yourself before getting someone else to do it.
BTW, If you need any advice on what to look for inspecting a car yourself (or need someone to look at a car for you) - Voicey is your man, he knows the F430 inside out and clearly has a handle on values. He has been very helpful to me and it was his value index and website that got me interested in buying one.
FFM said:
Thanks a lot, have you heard about the difference in how EU owners use their cars? I've heard from several people that German owners will likely to very picky at the time of buying the car but at the same time, they will drive the car more "intensively" relative to French or Italians (i.e. not in miles-term but in general use). Autobahn would probably explains why? I don't know whether is something you heard as well, as part of your due-diligence?
One of the benefits of buying privately is that you get to 'size up' the previous owner - the gentleman that had mine took me out in it so i could see how he drove it - warmed it up carefully, was careful getting in not to mark the leather etc etc. pottered about the town short-shifting... but when we hit the autobahn he nailed it up to 150mph while still talking to me casually in broken english... exactly the kind of owner I was looking for - lives in a smaller town, so the car hasn't spent its life crawling in traffic, he drives it only on dry days and properly stretches its legs (which I guess is easier to do in Germany than most places!). I expect (hope) most of the miles on my car have been at UK licence-loosing speeds in germany!Voicey talks about 'operating hours' as being as important as actual mileage - lots of low miles cars have probably sat in traffic getting very hot and not going anywhere - heat is not good for the longevity of parts. The newer cars (I think late 2007 with the updated transmission ECU) record time spent in each gear which would give you a picture of how it's been used. The service history from a main dealer should have a print out of the last SD3 diagnostics 'read' along with the invoice which includes the gearbox info so you should be able to read it as part of the research for a particular car. That information also tells you the estimated F1 clutch and CCM brake wear as well as the number of times the F1 clutch has overheated - usually a sign of town driving.
I'd avoid buying from places like paris, milan, monaco, colonge etc for that reason - the cars out of the major centres are a little cheaper too so be prepared to travel.
As CGT2 says, euro cars do have long time 'gaps' in the history as in most cases they dont get them serviced if they dont use them - although my car's previous owner ran a franchised car dealership (not ferrari) and in his ownership did annual fluid changes in their garage with the correct shell fluids and then ferrari main dealer for the official mileage interval services, that was a bit unusual compared to the other cars I asked about. speaking to other dealers and owners they all seemed a bit confused / surprised when I asked about 'annual servicing'.
My car had an extended Ferrari power warranty up until the middle of 2015, so I presume that is 'acceptable' to ferrari in Europe.
I bought on condition - my car was a lot better than some of the UK 'full dealer service history' cars I've seen. I'm expecting that since the F430 has a much better reliability record than earlier, more fragile, ferraris that the annual service thing might not be such a big deal in the future - a lot of UK cars are now in the hands of indys which presumably will also impact values. Perhaps I'm a bit different to the usual buyer in that I'm not convinced the main dealer service history is not a substitute for an enthusiastic and fastidious owner who probably notices little things before a routine service would. I'm convinced my car was looked after 'no expense spared' - they just dont 'do' annual services.
I didn't notice a huge difference between countries, although Germany seems to generally have the best condition cars when i was looking, perhaps the they look after them better. My short list ended up being two German cars and one Belgian. I looked at a surprisingly high number of ropey looking cars from Italy which was a bit surprising as you'd think every owner would worship the cars there. French cars in general looked ok, but the stock available seemed to be fairly ahem... individual... colour and interior choices. I was limiting my choice to cars with CCM and the carbon race seats, so I may have missed some of the good condition cars with steel brakes and standard seats. Italian and French cars seem to be a bit cheaper in general. I looked into a few cars in Spain, but the hot weather doesn't seem to be good for the interiors and the export process seems a bit complicated (and you have to pay a tax).
Buying again, I'd probably focus on Germany as there is enough choice and the owners and buying process are straight forward.
911F said:
The HR Owen car is my old car which I recently sold to them.
I can vouch for the history, condition, and specification, incidentally the highest specification car for sale (probably!)
I looked at 4 F430s in the EU and had countless conversations with people about cars for sale. I finally bought that car, and it was inspected by Ferrari at the time of purchase, where it had also been serviced and had a new clutch. It's a lot harder to find "Full Service history" In the EU, the mentality is different, if they dont use a car, they dont service it. My car had 4 services in 7 years and 35k km. It should have had 7 if it were done by the book.
Of course there is a premium for RHD cars, but when you drive a LHD car back from the EU, it really teaches you how to drive it, I did 3000 miles in 6 months and had no issues driving in the UK.
Happy to help anyone who wants guidance on bringing one over. Although the Euro at 1.3 makes it less compelling.
Would agree with all you have said. my only regret is that I didn't buy a €100k F430 Scuderia at the start of 2015! that boat has well and truely sailed!I can vouch for the history, condition, and specification, incidentally the highest specification car for sale (probably!)
I looked at 4 F430s in the EU and had countless conversations with people about cars for sale. I finally bought that car, and it was inspected by Ferrari at the time of purchase, where it had also been serviced and had a new clutch. It's a lot harder to find "Full Service history" In the EU, the mentality is different, if they dont use a car, they dont service it. My car had 4 services in 7 years and 35k km. It should have had 7 if it were done by the book.
Of course there is a premium for RHD cars, but when you drive a LHD car back from the EU, it really teaches you how to drive it, I did 3000 miles in 6 months and had no issues driving in the UK.
Happy to help anyone who wants guidance on bringing one over. Although the Euro at 1.3 makes it less compelling.
paulmnz said:
One of the benefits of buying privately is that you get to 'size up' the previous owner - the gentleman that had mine took me out in it so i could see how he drove it - warmed it up carefully, was careful getting in not to mark the leather etc etc. pottered about the town short-shifting... but when we hit the autobahn he nailed it up to 150mph while still talking to me casually in broken english... exactly the kind of owner I was looking for - lives in a smaller town, so the car hasn't spent its life crawling in traffic, he drives it only on dry days and properly stretches its legs (which I guess is easier to do in Germany than most places!). I expect (hope) most of the miles on my car have been at UK licence-loosing speeds in germany!
Voicey talks about 'operating hours' as being as important as actual mileage - lots of low miles cars have probably sat in traffic getting very hot and not going anywhere - heat is not good for the longevity of parts. The newer cars (I think late 2007 with the updated transmission ECU) record time spent in each gear which would give you a picture of how it's been used. The service history from a main dealer should have a print out of the last SD3 diagnostics 'read' along with the invoice which includes the gearbox info so you should be able to read it as part of the research for a particular car. That information also tells you the estimated F1 clutch and CCM brake wear as well as the number of times the F1 clutch has overheated - usually a sign of town driving.
I'd avoid buying from places like paris, milan, monaco, colonge etc for that reason - the cars out of the major centres are a little cheaper too so be prepared to travel.
As CGT2 says, euro cars do have long time 'gaps' in the history as in most cases they dont get them serviced if they dont use them - although my car's previous owner ran a franchised car dealership (not ferrari) and in his ownership did annual fluid changes in their garage with the correct shell fluids and then ferrari main dealer for the official mileage interval services, that was a bit unusual compared to the other cars I asked about. speaking to other dealers and owners they all seemed a bit confused / surprised when I asked about 'annual servicing'.
My car had an extended Ferrari power warranty up until the middle of 2015, so I presume that is 'acceptable' to ferrari in Europe.
I bought on condition - my car was a lot better than some of the UK 'full dealer service history' cars I've seen. I'm expecting that since the F430 has a much better reliability record than earlier, more fragile, ferraris that the annual service thing might not be such a big deal in the future - a lot of UK cars are now in the hands of indys which presumably will also impact values. Perhaps I'm a bit different to the usual buyer in that I'm not convinced the main dealer service history is not a substitute for an enthusiastic and fastidious owner who probably notices little things before a routine service would. I'm convinced my car was looked after 'no expense spared' - they just dont 'do' annual services.
I didn't notice a huge difference between countries, although Germany seems to generally have the best condition cars when i was looking, perhaps the they look after them better. My short list ended up being two German cars and one Belgian. I looked at a surprisingly high number of ropey looking cars from Italy which was a bit surprising as you'd think every owner would worship the cars there. French cars in general looked ok, but the stock available seemed to be fairly ahem... individual... colour and interior choices. I was limiting my choice to cars with CCM and the carbon race seats, so I may have missed some of the good condition cars with steel brakes and standard seats. Italian and French cars seem to be a bit cheaper in general. I looked into a few cars in Spain, but the hot weather doesn't seem to be good for the interiors and the export process seems a bit complicated (and you have to pay a tax).
Buying again, I'd probably focus on Germany as there is enough choice and the owners and buying process are straight forward.
Very insightful paul, thank you. Probably the key takeaway is that, at the end of the day a lot of due-diligence is necessary to source the right car regardless of where the car is located. Voicey talks about 'operating hours' as being as important as actual mileage - lots of low miles cars have probably sat in traffic getting very hot and not going anywhere - heat is not good for the longevity of parts. The newer cars (I think late 2007 with the updated transmission ECU) record time spent in each gear which would give you a picture of how it's been used. The service history from a main dealer should have a print out of the last SD3 diagnostics 'read' along with the invoice which includes the gearbox info so you should be able to read it as part of the research for a particular car. That information also tells you the estimated F1 clutch and CCM brake wear as well as the number of times the F1 clutch has overheated - usually a sign of town driving.
I'd avoid buying from places like paris, milan, monaco, colonge etc for that reason - the cars out of the major centres are a little cheaper too so be prepared to travel.
As CGT2 says, euro cars do have long time 'gaps' in the history as in most cases they dont get them serviced if they dont use them - although my car's previous owner ran a franchised car dealership (not ferrari) and in his ownership did annual fluid changes in their garage with the correct shell fluids and then ferrari main dealer for the official mileage interval services, that was a bit unusual compared to the other cars I asked about. speaking to other dealers and owners they all seemed a bit confused / surprised when I asked about 'annual servicing'.
My car had an extended Ferrari power warranty up until the middle of 2015, so I presume that is 'acceptable' to ferrari in Europe.
I bought on condition - my car was a lot better than some of the UK 'full dealer service history' cars I've seen. I'm expecting that since the F430 has a much better reliability record than earlier, more fragile, ferraris that the annual service thing might not be such a big deal in the future - a lot of UK cars are now in the hands of indys which presumably will also impact values. Perhaps I'm a bit different to the usual buyer in that I'm not convinced the main dealer service history is not a substitute for an enthusiastic and fastidious owner who probably notices little things before a routine service would. I'm convinced my car was looked after 'no expense spared' - they just dont 'do' annual services.
I didn't notice a huge difference between countries, although Germany seems to generally have the best condition cars when i was looking, perhaps the they look after them better. My short list ended up being two German cars and one Belgian. I looked at a surprisingly high number of ropey looking cars from Italy which was a bit surprising as you'd think every owner would worship the cars there. French cars in general looked ok, but the stock available seemed to be fairly ahem... individual... colour and interior choices. I was limiting my choice to cars with CCM and the carbon race seats, so I may have missed some of the good condition cars with steel brakes and standard seats. Italian and French cars seem to be a bit cheaper in general. I looked into a few cars in Spain, but the hot weather doesn't seem to be good for the interiors and the export process seems a bit complicated (and you have to pay a tax).
Buying again, I'd probably focus on Germany as there is enough choice and the owners and buying process are straight forward.
Am I correct in saying that a proper "story book" is a must for 2 key reasons: A) to help your buying decision in the first place and B) to maintain the car "liquid" in the UK market (for instance, should the car be sold at a later stage, as 911 did).
Btw, in regards to point "B", would be great to understand also what a UK buyer (dealer or private) willing to buy/trade a LHD directly in UK will look for, in addition to the standard things.
FFM said:
Very insightful paul, thank you. Probably the key takeaway is that, at the end of the day a lot of due-diligence is necessary to source the right car regardless of where the car is located.
Am I correct in saying that a proper "story book" is a must for 2 key reasons: A) to help your buying decision in the first place and B) to maintain the car "liquid" in the UK market (for instance, should the car be sold at a later stage, as 911 did).
Btw, in regards to point "B", would be great to understand also what a UK buyer (dealer or private) willing to buy/trade a LHD directly in UK will look for, in addition to the standard things.
The due diligence is (as another poster pointed out) part of the 'fun' for a car enthusiast. my car is now fully road legal and I feel a little lost for a 'project' after months of looking, researching, watching exchange rates and tracking autoscout on a daily basis, finding the car and going on an adventure to buy it and then the import process. it's really allowed me to savour the acquisition experience - I drove it back 900km the day I bought it, then it was parked up for a few weeks before being driven to the MOT station, then not used again until the IVA appointment drive, then waiting for the registration and plates... all the time in between you get to look at it, clean it, start it up, but not drive it... makes the day it's all done and you can drive it whenever you want so much sweeter - you've really worked for it, not just strolled into a dealership and driven out in a car plus you have paid a lot less for it. To some people, all of that just sounds like loads of hassle, and perhaps thats why buying a UK car is the way to go for most.Am I correct in saying that a proper "story book" is a must for 2 key reasons: A) to help your buying decision in the first place and B) to maintain the car "liquid" in the UK market (for instance, should the car be sold at a later stage, as 911 did).
Btw, in regards to point "B", would be great to understand also what a UK buyer (dealer or private) willing to buy/trade a LHD directly in UK will look for, in addition to the standard things.
I agree with your summation - the story and 'accessible' history was one of the reasons I went for the car I did... it was towards the upper end of my budget (I originally wanted a car at a lower price with more miles so the relative mileage depreciation would be lower) but I ended up with a lower mileage car because of the great history and enthusiastic careful owner.
I'm new to the rarefied world of ferrari ownership, so I can't answer the resale question till I try to sell it - a few of the other contributors on this thread have bought and sold LHD so are probably more qualified to comment. I like to think there are some buyers in the UK with a similar mindset to me - RHD vs LHD makes little difference (I have another LHD car and plenty of RHD cars I drive in europe a lot) so they seem a comparative bargain and the cars are as good quality overall, but significantly better pound-for-pound.
There is a risk that LHD cars are seen as the 'cheap mans' version with patchy history / servicing. so yes, I do think a detailed back-story will be important when selling it as like it or not, LHD for volume ferraris is seen as an odd-ball choice. I know an awful lot about the specific history of my car including both the previous owners and have plenty of physical evidence of that history in the paperwork with the car - but I like to think at the end of the day the object in front of the potential buyer will speak for itself. In hindsight, I'm not sure I would have bought a dealer car without some information about the previous owner and how the car was used, I guess you might be able to get some of that from owners clubs as many cars would be 'known' if they are club members. My seller was definitely a german ferrari club member.
I may be hopelessly naive, and ferrari buyers are a different breed, a couple of people have told me I've made a mistake (but then they are quite risk averse and buy average new UK cars enjoying the guaranteed depreciation that brings!) If it ends up a mistake, at least I got to enjoy driving the mistake, I just might have to pay a little more for it.
Liquidity is of course partly driven by price - Buy well and you get a fair 'cushion' to off-set the difficulty in selling a LHD car. I could undercut all the LHD cars on sale in the UK today and still make a minor 'profit' if I needed out in a hurry - I suspect with the spec my car is, it would sell very quickly.
What everyone wants to know though - if the market is indeed in a massive bubble and tanks, which cars will be hit most - the top end RHD cars, the mid-range cars or the LHD cars... maybe all the same, maybe not, lots of people have theories. Although I bought with an eye on the exit strategy, I dont have a confined timeline, I can get out early or wait it out and enjoy the car - I would say LHD is more uncertain and if you buy a lemon you'll have a lot of hassle trying to resolve, so the lower risk would appear to be buying a Rosso/Nero mid-price RHD car... but I bought my car 50/50 heart and mind so didn't buy a car in resale red, I bought what I wanted ;-)
FFM said:
Hi all,
As this is my first post, a quick intro is a must as I've been reading the forum for quite a while and found the content very useful. I currently own a manual AM Vantage '09 and I am looking to buy an F430, thus the reason I am writing.
I did some due-diligence on the market (a big thank you to Aldous Voice for the F430 monthly market watch), LHD pros/cons market and the F430 in itself.
Aside from passion, my main aim is to buy the F430 for occasional use. Although, minimising the n. of negative "surprises" (i.e. big ticket maintenance etc.) and the drop in the car value are high priorities, too.
The budget I plan to invest drives me to consider buying the car from an official European dealer (likely to be in Italy), so I can also have the peace of mind of the Official Ferrari Warranty. Thereafter, I plan to register the car in UK using a specialised company (btw, any suggestion here?)
I'd like to understand whether, based on the experience of those of you who did source the car from Europe, the concept of buying abroad makes sense operationally and financially, for this particular car.
Specifically, do you think I can find a LHD F1-box Coupe, decent spec, 10k miles, FFSH, 1-2 owners max, let's assume in Red for c.a. £70-2k (that will include the cost of transportation, COC, etc.) here in the UK and save time and effort? Based on my research, an equivalent RHD car in the official dealer network is advertised at £95-100k.
It is also likely that, the same LHD car, if sourced from Uk, won't have the Ferrari warranty as probably to be found not in the official Ferrari Network..
For sure I will have more questions, but for now I am just curious to understand what do you guys think?
Thanks a lot,
F
I've only just seen this post and replies. As this is my first post, a quick intro is a must as I've been reading the forum for quite a while and found the content very useful. I currently own a manual AM Vantage '09 and I am looking to buy an F430, thus the reason I am writing.
I did some due-diligence on the market (a big thank you to Aldous Voice for the F430 monthly market watch), LHD pros/cons market and the F430 in itself.
Aside from passion, my main aim is to buy the F430 for occasional use. Although, minimising the n. of negative "surprises" (i.e. big ticket maintenance etc.) and the drop in the car value are high priorities, too.
The budget I plan to invest drives me to consider buying the car from an official European dealer (likely to be in Italy), so I can also have the peace of mind of the Official Ferrari Warranty. Thereafter, I plan to register the car in UK using a specialised company (btw, any suggestion here?)
I'd like to understand whether, based on the experience of those of you who did source the car from Europe, the concept of buying abroad makes sense operationally and financially, for this particular car.
Specifically, do you think I can find a LHD F1-box Coupe, decent spec, 10k miles, FFSH, 1-2 owners max, let's assume in Red for c.a. £70-2k (that will include the cost of transportation, COC, etc.) here in the UK and save time and effort? Based on my research, an equivalent RHD car in the official dealer network is advertised at £95-100k.
It is also likely that, the same LHD car, if sourced from Uk, won't have the Ferrari warranty as probably to be found not in the official Ferrari Network..
For sure I will have more questions, but for now I am just curious to understand what do you guys think?
Thanks a lot,
F
Beware, there are a few people setting up car sourcing / brokerage companies at the moment claiming to have imported 'numerous' cars for numerous clients from Europe and Worldwide and are just chancing their arm to be seen as super and classic car specialists. Most of these guys have never owned or even driven anything super. Would you trust £100k + of your hard earned to one of these chancers?
ONLY go to someone who has been doing it for at least 10 years and isn't working out of their spare bedroom (called in the trade 'bedroom brokers') and is WELL established. Speak to someone like DK Engineering or similar on what they can do to help, or even approach an established dealer in Europe direct.
For a broker, look for proof of their credentials including -
1. Have they an office / premises
2. Look on Companies House Register of how long they have been operating - look for a MINIMUM of 5 years
3. Look on their websites for photos of the cars they have claimed to of sold. The ones who have, always have photos taken in the same place. Others either have none at all, or random location pics that they could of snapped on the street and then claim to have them as a car they sold
I've been in the business for 18 years now, and will PM you now with some pointers of who to and not to use.
Enjoy the search, its can be an enjoyable part of the cars ownership experience
elms said:
I've only just seen this post and replies.
Beware, there are a few people setting up car sourcing / brokerage companies at the moment claiming to have imported 'numerous' cars for numerous clients from Europe and Worldwide and are just chancing their arm to be seen as super and classic car specialists. Most of these guys have never owned or even driven anything super. Would you trust £100k + of your hard earned to one of these chancers?
ONLY go to someone who has been doing it for at least 10 years and isn't working out of their spare bedroom (called in the trade 'bedroom brokers') and is WELL established. Speak to someone like DK Engineering or similar on what they can do to help, or even approach an established dealer in Europe direct.
For a broker, look for proof of their credentials including -
1. Have they an office / premises
2. Look on Companies House Register of how long they have been operating - look for a MINIMUM of 5 years
3. Look on their websites for photos of the cars they have claimed to of sold. The ones who have, always have photos taken in the same place. Others either have none at all, or random location pics that they could of snapped on the street and then claim to have them as a car they sold
I've been in the business for 18 years now, and will PM you now with some pointers of who to and not to use.
Enjoy the search, its can be an enjoyable part of the cars ownership experience
How kind of you to pull this up Dion. Very kind of you.Beware, there are a few people setting up car sourcing / brokerage companies at the moment claiming to have imported 'numerous' cars for numerous clients from Europe and Worldwide and are just chancing their arm to be seen as super and classic car specialists. Most of these guys have never owned or even driven anything super. Would you trust £100k + of your hard earned to one of these chancers?
ONLY go to someone who has been doing it for at least 10 years and isn't working out of their spare bedroom (called in the trade 'bedroom brokers') and is WELL established. Speak to someone like DK Engineering or similar on what they can do to help, or even approach an established dealer in Europe direct.
For a broker, look for proof of their credentials including -
1. Have they an office / premises
2. Look on Companies House Register of how long they have been operating - look for a MINIMUM of 5 years
3. Look on their websites for photos of the cars they have claimed to of sold. The ones who have, always have photos taken in the same place. Others either have none at all, or random location pics that they could of snapped on the street and then claim to have them as a car they sold
I've been in the business for 18 years now, and will PM you now with some pointers of who to and not to use.
Enjoy the search, its can be an enjoyable part of the cars ownership experience
Indeed I've been running this business for less than 5 years.
Your comment "Don't use anyone that hasn't been trading for 10 years". Are you having a laugh? How on earth would any new business get up off the ground if clients followed your advice and didn't use anyone newish on the market.
You know nothing about me or my businesses and you have (once again) come across incredibly unprofessional.
Luckily I have a testimonial on this site from one of my clients.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=15&...
(sorry to have to post this on the OP's thread)
Edited by _Superleggera_ on Tuesday 19th January 16:14
offshoreeddy said:
I bought a LHD 430 F1 from Belgium in November to go with my LHD 360 F1 (currently for sale in PH classifieds...). It's an easy process to register them in the UK, don't be put off by it. I won't tell you what i paid but it was a heck of a lot less than the £70k you're talking about.
Yes true, but consider also the exchange rate was very different in Nov compared to now.I have calculated c.a. £3-3.5k is the cost of importing the car start-to-end from, say Italy. Including import costs, a good LHD F430, with a Ferrari official warranty and low certified miles, I believe will cost you around GBP70-72k even more, I am sure you can save also money but the car will be a higher mileage one. Not to mention the cost of sourcing it will be higher (as these will likely be cars held by private individuals)
I purchased a 430 from Germany around May.
A lot of research online and then one came up at a Ferrari dealer, proper service history, lots of recent work on the known faults, and I researched the previous owners (name on invoices) and the last guy was a powerfully built company director with a collection who had maintained it well.
Took the Eurostar and a connecting train to Germany and made the purchase. The drive back was immense and part of the fun!
In terms of practicalities of registering it over here, it really is simple. Make sure you get a certificate of conformity if under 10 yrs old.
Echoing others on here, the Europeans really don't seem to service their cars well (huge stereotype!) and seem quite happy to let their mate Pablo who has a toolbox have a go once every few years. If you can find a car from a dealer/enthusiast with decent service history and can make an inspection yourself when you take a test drive i'd say go for it.
I wasn't looking to buy LHD but I changed my euro's at about 1.39 from memory and at the prices the cars were, it seemed insane not to buy!
Here's a link to the garage I bought from and their used stock - they have a few 430's in it seems.
http://www.ferrari-eberlein.de/index.php/aus-vorbe...
Jens Wiegand is your man.
A lot of research online and then one came up at a Ferrari dealer, proper service history, lots of recent work on the known faults, and I researched the previous owners (name on invoices) and the last guy was a powerfully built company director with a collection who had maintained it well.
Took the Eurostar and a connecting train to Germany and made the purchase. The drive back was immense and part of the fun!
In terms of practicalities of registering it over here, it really is simple. Make sure you get a certificate of conformity if under 10 yrs old.
Echoing others on here, the Europeans really don't seem to service their cars well (huge stereotype!) and seem quite happy to let their mate Pablo who has a toolbox have a go once every few years. If you can find a car from a dealer/enthusiast with decent service history and can make an inspection yourself when you take a test drive i'd say go for it.
I wasn't looking to buy LHD but I changed my euro's at about 1.39 from memory and at the prices the cars were, it seemed insane not to buy!
Here's a link to the garage I bought from and their used stock - they have a few 430's in it seems.
http://www.ferrari-eberlein.de/index.php/aus-vorbe...
Jens Wiegand is your man.
Edited by FrankAbagnale on Wednesday 20th January 14:22
paulmnz said:
Would agree with all you have said. my only regret is that I didn't buy a €100k F430 Scuderia at the start of 2015! that boat has well and truely sailed!
I think the Scuderia was almost a one of kind undervalued in it's class. I paid 107K euros at the start of 2015, now look (same spec). http://www.autoscout24.com/offers/ferrari-f430-scu...
Like for like prices in Europe are now higher than they are in the UK!
FFM said:
Yes true, but consider also the exchange rate was very different in Nov compared to now.
I have calculated c.a. £3-3.5k is the cost of importing the car start-to-end from, say Italy. Including import costs, a good LHD F430, with a Ferrari official warranty and low certified miles, I believe will cost you around GBP70-72k even more, I am sure you can save also money but the car will be a higher mileage one. Not to mention the cost of sourcing it will be higher (as these will likely be cars held by private individuals)
For comparison to your research, my DIY import costs where under £1500 all in - flights (3), eurotunnel, fuel(!), hotels (2x 1 night), rental car (one day), trains/taxi from airport to collect, German export fees and insurance, conversion, testing and registration in the UK and a years VED. driving a car back from Italy would clearly be more expensive. I was looking at shipping a car from italy as it wasn't worth putting a couple of thousand miles on the car via the motorway - that would have added around £1000.I have calculated c.a. £3-3.5k is the cost of importing the car start-to-end from, say Italy. Including import costs, a good LHD F430, with a Ferrari official warranty and low certified miles, I believe will cost you around GBP70-72k even more, I am sure you can save also money but the car will be a higher mileage one. Not to mention the cost of sourcing it will be higher (as these will likely be cars held by private individuals)
Agree on the exchange rate - I waited for 1.40 (transacted at 1.41) which in hindisght was a lucky move - the analysts had been predicting 1.45+ for January and I had been tempted to wait!
Slickhillsy said:
I think the Scuderia was almost a one of kind undervalued in it's class. I paid 107K euros at the start of 2015, now look (same spec).
http://www.autoscout24.com/offers/ferrari-f430-scu...
Like for like prices in Europe are now higher than they are in the UK!
I hate you http://www.autoscout24.com/offers/ferrari-f430-scu...
Like for like prices in Europe are now higher than they are in the UK!
I almost bought one at €139k, it was fairly ropey, but even that might have been a reasonable buy!offshoreeddy said:
Drove my 360 back from Modena over two days and 1200 miles, with flights and hotels and fuel it ran about £1000-1200. Import costs here negligible, heck of a lot less than the £3500 you're talking about admittedly without the F warranty. With my 430 the exchange rate was about 1.34 and I still paid a hell of a lot less than £70k for a high spec, 22k miles car with CCB and a bucketload of options. For 70k sterling, it's not worth it.
Excluding import (as the quotes I received come from a company specialised in this service), where do you think the optimal level would be, without F warranty ? offshoreeddy said:
Drove my 360 back from Modena over two days and 1200 miles, with flights and hotels and fuel it ran about £1000-1200. Import costs here negligible, heck of a lot less than the £3500 you're talking about admittedly without the F warranty. With my 430 the exchange rate was about 1.34 and I still paid a hell of a lot less than £70k for a high spec, 22k miles car with CCB and a bucketload of options. For 70k sterling, it's not worth it.
Excluding import (as the quotes I received come from a company specialised in this service), where do you think the optimal level would be, without F warranty ? offshoreeddy said:
I'd have thought someone will trailer it back for you for around £1500 or thereabouts.
I was quoted c.a. £1900 (ex. transport) through the IVA test including MOT/TAX and adjustments to meet UK spec (lights, speedometer).Do you suggest going through the COC route? If you do the admin with DVLA and HRMC who did you use to do apply the adjustments on the car?
Thanks
F
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