355 price correction

355 price correction

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Discussion

jw01

84 posts

113 months

Tuesday 12th December 2017
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I didnt say "crash" I said correction. In addition, simple supply and demand would suggest a continued slide backwards in prices. When I purchased my 355 in may 2012 there were 37 for sale on pistonheads, today there are 90. Those numbers alone suggest where prices are likely to go.

Rari

103 posts

175 months

Wednesday 13th December 2017
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jw01 said:
I didnt say "crash" I said correction. In addition, simple supply and demand would suggest a continued slide backwards in prices. When I purchased my 355 in may 2012 there were 37 for sale on pistonheads, today there are 90. Those numbers alone suggest where prices are likely to go.
Today there are 88 on PH and 8 of those are 'sold / servicing or wanted ads'. Lots of left hand drive cars for sale out of the 88 for then breaking down to manual and F1 the pool becomes smaller depending on your requirements.

Right hand drive, manual with below 50k miles there doesn't seem much choice out there below £80k. There are 3 to be precise or 4 if you include a 64k miler at £75k in yellow........

Edited by Rari on Wednesday 13th December 11:30

HardtopManual

1,921 posts

146 months

Wednesday 13th December 2017
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Rari said:
Today there are 88 on PH and 8 of those are 'sold / servicing or wanted ads'. Lots of left hand drive cars for sale out of the 88 for then breaking down to manual and F1 the pool becomes smaller depending on your requirements.

Right hand drive, manual with below 50k miles there doesn't seem much choice out there below £80k. There are 3 to be precise or 4 if you include a 64k miler at £75k in yellow........
+1 ...and over on the trader, there are currently a whole 4 RHD manual Berlinettas for sale.

bordseye

1,795 posts

172 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
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NSC79 said:
Hi all

Clearly in the long term, it’s going up,

Why do you say that? Classic and collectable cars are cyclical. They have boomed before only to crash down. Was it in 1988? Not sure.

These mass produced V8 Ferraris are a bubble market. Prices bear no relationship to either their function as a vehicle or their rarity. They reflect only what people think they are worth and like every other collectable bar the very rare, sentiment will rise and fall.

Impossible to predict the short term future. I've been looking at a really nice 360 whose price has already come down by 5% in 6 moths and 10% in a year. Its very negotiable even now. Could halve in the next 5 years or go back up again. Gamble but since public confidence is weak ( car sales down 17% overall), my bet is down not up.

FezSpider

841 posts

212 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
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11,270 ish "mass produced" 355s v 72,500 ish mrk 1-3 Jaguar E types.
Have you seen some of the prices of them genuinly mass produced E-types these days.
Kind of throws a spanner into the arguments that they have made to many 355s for them to be of high value.
355s arnt doing to bad i dont think, and may rise again, who knows. I like others may remember when people on forums who used to talk with some authority about no 355 will ever go above 50-60 grand....ever, to many made, bla bla bla. That was back then and things/prices have moved on since then and may move on again. Who knows? No one does. But i do know that 14 years ago, i wish i had bought that 246 Dino i was looking at for £40 grand LOL
Although i have owned my 355 spider for 14 years, i dont really care either way about price increase, its a keeper smile

bordseye

1,795 posts

172 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
quotequote all
NSC79 said:
Hi all

Clearly in the long term, it’s going up,

Why do you say that? Classic and collectable cars are cyclical. They have boomed before only to crash down. Was it in 1988? Not sure.

These mass produced V8 Ferraris are a bubble market. Prices bear no relationship to either their function as a vehicle or their rarity. They reflect only what people think they are worth and like every other collectable bar the very rare, sentiment will rise and fall.

Impossible to predict the short term future. I've been looking at a really nice 360 whose price has already come down by 5% in 6 moths and 10% in a year. Its very negotiable even now. Could halve in the next 5 years or go back up again. Gamble but since public confidence is weak ( car sales down 17% overall), my bet is down not up.

MaserCoupe

137 posts

68 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
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Interesting thread this on the 355, I lived through that bubble of the 1980's seeing prices go through the stratosphere, I witnessed it first hand, seeing a very close friend of mine who bought and sold second hand classic Lamborghinis, Maserati's, De-Tomasos, ISO's, Monteverdis well pretty much any Italian Exotic except Ferrari (as everyone else was doing that).

I remember vividly, seeing him find two rare Maserati 5000GT allemano bodied cars for virtually nothing and then selling them both for a record price (back then circa 1991). These are now, well loads more!! Imagine this was a road car that was 170mph in 1959 with a 5litre V8 straight out of the 450S race car!!!

The situation in the 80s/90's was/is different to now. Interest rates, local/world economy, housing etc was/is not the same as today. Completely different set of circumstances. I would agree that Rarity helps in a car but that is certainly not the only factor. For me when I came to choosing a car, I would always ask myself why do I desire this in-animate object.....? But are they in-animate....................

For me it comes down to how the thing drives, how it feels in my hands, the sound it makes, it's design, is it a manual three pedal arrangement, Natural aspiration and does it make my heart skip, finally what impact it had/has on the world and it's contemporaries. Just some aspects but the emotional list is longer!

Desirability is a very personal thing, it's different to each one of us. Who would have thought Porsches (mass produced by comparison) would have gone the way they did! Well they did and so begs the question what impact did they have on the motoring world.....They must have done something right (and I'm saying this as someone who isn't a big fan of them), but you have to concede that rarity didn't play a part in them achieving big money.

So as far as prices.........well I would say this............who really wants to chop their sports/super/exotic/fill the blank car for an all electric, what true car enthusiast or dare I say real driving enthusiast, isn't going to want to try a naturally aspirated multi-cylindered sports car, who's not going to want to experience the joy of punching through the gears on the way to the redline or go into a controlled power slide with a wailing big capacity engine screaming its guts out?

Who here honestly can say they don't smile and giggle like a kid when they hear their engine on a down shift or hear an over-run popping and banging exhaust. Now surely that's a price worth paying for.........isn't it??? Or, do I now need to apologise to all and sundry.....

So yes the 355 is one of the last of that breed and yes in time you'll see it go the same way as the other classics, if you research it and see what it achieved as a car and in it's time you'll understand. Its earned its place as a special car, so grab them while you can!

Well to each their own, what ever your choice is, is you and what floats your boat. If these cars make you happy, surely that is all that is important. Its all good especially when you think what is coming in the future................Ohh look dad its that rare Dyson E.V only 250,000 made that day, ooh and look at that new rare Tesla sports EV one of only 150,000 made that week!!!

P.S while the banks are still giving us Sweet F.A return then what else is there out there to enjoy our money on? Exactly!!! PSS If the banks all of sudden give us 25% return what will you do?

MDL111

6,370 posts

157 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
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For me personally they will be a lot less attractive once I can't drive them into a city center anymore (i.e. Park the car at my home to use) - which might well happen very soon, and believe it or not for mass produced cars being bought my normal people that is a factor - so I do think today's prices are in for a correction. A 355 is not a cheap car to keep, mine probably cost 10k a year at a very cheap work hour priced independent, so I can see a correction coming. Will still buy a 355 Challenge once I have the money as I want one, but all this talk about ever increasing prices is bonkers imo on this type of car - it is a bog standard Ferrari that was produced in double digit figures - and comparing it to an E type from the sixties of which the majority probably rusted into oblivion thanks to being worth f all a few decades ago is not really reflective of the current market

You spend your money and you live with the results - imo just don't buy a car as an investment - the last 5 years are from a historical perspective not a good predictor of the future imo. Good riddance to everybody who thinks the Chinese or whoever will buy their standard Ferrari for retarded money in a few years/decades - I doubt they care about "oldish" but not rare cars

FezSpider

841 posts

212 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
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MDL111 said:
but all this talk about ever increasing prices is bonkers imo on this type of car - it is a bog standard Ferrari that was produced in double digit figures - and comparing it to an E type from the sixties of which the majority probably rusted into oblivion thanks to being worth f all a few decades ago is not really reflective of the current market
Yea, i heard your first line back 14 years ago, time has shown they got that wrong.
No one here compared the 355 to the E type, so dont know how you read that.
My self, i simply pointed out that there are 72,500 E types compared to 11,200 355s. I did that to throw a spanner into the so called mass produced argument. No one compared the two cars as cars mate, just the numbers produced.
So you think the majority of E types has rusted away? Really? Quite a few maybe but i wont accept the " majority" unless you have hard figures to back up what you have said. Even if half are rusted away, that would still leave 36,000 of them. On that note i think we can agree that there would also be quite a few 355s have been destroyed.
However i do agree about driving and living with the cars in the city, its my guess you are in London? That will apply to any ferrari over a certain age if the goverments have there way.
I am dying to ask what you ment buy " normal" people owning the 355s, but i wont biggrin .



Edited by FezSpider on Thursday 21st December 22:23

355fiorano

418 posts

222 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
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[quote=MDL111]... mine probably cost 10k a year at a very cheap work hour priced independent, .../quote]

That sounds really excessive running costs. Was that in the UK or abroad. I had my car since 2003. Use to go all over the place with it across Europe/track days etc 2k-3k miles a year however last 5/6yrs I just don't have the time so it gets driven mainly in central London and only a few trips off to the Cotswolds so its been doing more like 500m a year. Over this period I would say I averaged around £2k a year. First few years I serviced it at the main dealer as i had the Power warranty. Once that finished its been to QV for servicing since. Sure some years when I needed cambelt + tyres /clutch / discs / broken manifolds etc it may have gone to £4k but I don't recall it costing more than that any year ... unless I may have developed selective memory and shut out any painful bills from memory wink Actually the last service was on the thick end of £3k as I needed a new alternator and they are about £800 + fitting, cam belts, sorting out some of the plastic panels that had finally decided to get very sticky in the last year etc

In fact that is why I very much hope for a price correction or at least that the prices don't go higher as this pushes up all the parts prices and the labour prices etc so ti just gets more expensive to keep the car running properly. That's why you then get people buying into cars and are so scared to use them as the costs are debilitating. I was at my dealer servicing the Strad and they told me they have so many clients that have their cars picked up for service to just to change the oil and get the stamp and delivered back. They are told to not drive the car at all, even to park and they have to push the cars around the workshop ... and strictly no test drive to see if the car is working properly. That to me is just ridiculous!

Edited by 355fiorano on Thursday 21st December 23:49

MDL111

6,370 posts

157 months

Friday 22nd December 2017
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355fiorano said:
MDL111 said:
... mine probably cost 10k a year at a very cheap work hour priced independent, .../quote]

That sounds really excessive running costs. Was that in the UK or abroad. I had my car since 2003. Use to go all over the place with it across Europe/track days etc 2k-3k miles a year however last 5/6yrs I just don't have the time so it gets driven mainly in central London and only a few trips off to the Cotswolds so its been doing more like 500m a year. Over this period I would say I averaged around £2k a year. First few years I serviced it at the main dealer as i had the Power warranty. Once that finished its been to QV for servicing since. Sure some years when I needed cambelt + tyres /clutch / discs / broken manifolds etc it may have gone to £4k but I don't recall it costing more than that any year ... unless I may have developed selective memory and shut out any painful bills from memory wink Actually the last service was on the thick end of £3k as I needed a new alternator and they are about £800 + fitting, cam belts, sorting out some of the plastic panels that had finally decided to get very sticky in the last year etc

In fact that is why I very much hope for a price correction or at least that the prices don't go higher as this pushes up all the parts prices and the labour prices etc so ti just gets more expensive to keep the car running properly. That's why you then get people buying into cars and are so scared to use them as the costs are debilitating. I was at my dealer servicing the Strad and they told me they have so many clients that have their cars picked up for service to just to change the oil and get the stamp and delivered back. They are told to not drive the car at all, even to park and they have to push the cars around the workshop ... and strictly no test drive to see if the car is working properly. That to me is just ridiculous!

Edited by 355fiorano on Thursday 21st December 23:49
That was in the U.K. - but I did more than 10k miles a year, so that will skew the figures due to consumables (plus the 10k included insurance from memory). Largest single bill was about where you remember it, I think about 4K - but I had a few of those over time. UK is quite cheap though thanks to lots of independents and at least at the time very reasonable hourly rates.

I will definitely buy another one at some point, still best car I ever owned

phib

4,287 posts

239 months

Friday 22nd December 2017
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355fiorano]DL111 said:
... mine probably cost 10k a year at a very cheap work hour priced independent, .../quote]

That sounds really excessive running costs. Was that in the UK or abroad. I had my car since 2003. Use to go all over the place with it across Europe/track days etc 2k-3k miles a year however last 5/6yrs I just don't have the time so it gets driven mainly in central London and only a few trips off to the Cotswolds so its been doing more like 500m a year. Over this period I would say I averaged around £2k a year. First few years I serviced it at the main dealer as i had the Power warranty. Once that finished its been to QV for servicing since. Sure some years when I needed cambelt + tyres /clutch / discs / broken manifolds etc it may have gone to £4k but I don't recall it costing more than that any year ... unless I may have developed selective memory and shut out any painful bills from memory wink Actually the last service was on the thick end of £3k as I needed a new alternator and they are about £800 + fitting, cam belts, sorting out some of the plastic panels that had finally decided to get very sticky in the last year etc

In fact that is why I very much hope for a price correction or at least that the prices don't go higher as this pushes up all the parts prices and the labour prices etc so ti just gets more expensive to keep the car running properly. That's why you then get people buying into cars and are so scared to use them as the costs are debilitating. I was at my dealer servicing the Strad and they told me they have so many clients that have their cars picked up for service to just to change the oil and get the stamp and delivered back. They are told to not drive the car at all, even to park and they have to push the cars around the workshop ... and strictly no test drive to see if the car is working properly. That to me is just ridiculous!

Edited by 355fiorano on Thursday 21st December 23:49
Have to say mine has been looked after QV London for the last 10 years I have had it and its cost me about £1,500 on average a year, my 550 was similar.

However I have friends that bought cheap ones ( when £40k was cheap and £60k was good) and they spent c. £25k over 18 months getting it right. They hated the car and said they were rubbish .... infact they just should have spent the money and got a good one in first place.

I am afraid mine is a keeper so value is irrelevant, when things were going mad I was offered £150k for it probably now worth £90k. I did have two at this point and the slightly ropey one sold for £120k.

I think the prices will climb steadily mainly as the people who had them on the wall as a kid can afford them in their 40's and 50's demand will steadily grow and there will become ( there is now imho) a spread in values from cheap crappy ones to expensive low miles perfect cars ... much like every other classic

Phib

MDL111

6,370 posts

157 months

Friday 22nd December 2017
quotequote all
FezSpider said:
MDL111 said:
but all this talk about ever increasing prices is bonkers imo on this type of car - it is a bog standard Ferrari that was produced in double digit figures - and comparing it to an E type from the sixties of which the majority probably rusted into oblivion thanks to being worth f all a few decades ago is not really reflective of the current market
Yea, i heard your first line back 14 years ago, time has shown they got that wrong.
No one here compared the 355 to the E type, so dont know how you read that.
My self, i simply pointed out that there are 72,500 E types compared to 11,200 355s. I did that to throw a spanner into the so called mass produced argument. No one compared the two cars as cars mate, just the numbers produced.
So you think the majority of E types has rusted away? Really? Quite a few maybe but i wont accept the " majority" unless you have hard figures to back up what you have said. Even if half are rusted away, that would still leave 36,000 of them. On that note i think we can agree that there would also be quite a few 355s have been destroyed.
However i do agree about driving and living with the cars in the city, its my guess you are in London? That will apply to any ferrari over a certain age if the goverments have there way.
I am dying to ask what you ment buy " normal" people owning the 355s, but i wont biggrin .



Edited by FezSpider on Thursday 21st December 22:23
No can't back that up, was just a guess based on 50 years time passing in which they were worth very little at some point or other. The point is though the 10k 355s now compete with many more supposedly collectible cars from Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren etc etc. so don't really see a non-limited car just being on a permanent upward trajectory (or likely even holding current - to a degree cheap money inflated - prices). Let's revisit this thread in another 14 years and see where we end up - ultimately if you like the car then it does not really matter if it is worth 30k or 200k - both are conceivable imo

By "normal" I meant car guys who have one or two cars in their garage for weekends (where the 355 will as mentioned imo have to compete with many other cars) one could own. I did live in London, now in Germany - same kinda development though re polluting cars in city centers. The other thing I see here, is that you are basically not allowed to modify a car from standard otherwise no more MOT, so that removes the option of using cheaper/more easily available/and probably better after market parts to keep the cars running.

Finally I have a feeling that the younger generation does not cherish these 80s and 90s cars the same way the current key buying demographic (let's call that ages 30-70) does, they seem less interested in poster cars of my generation and more so in the new stuff, so eventually the buyer universe might contract.

All theoretical for now as nobody knows what the future holds

sparta6

3,287 posts

80 months

Friday 22nd December 2017
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MDL111 said:
All theoretical for now as nobody knows what the future holds
You nailed it smile

bordseye

1,795 posts

172 months

Friday 22nd December 2017
quotequote all
FezSpider said:
11,270 ish "mass produced" 355s v 72,500 ish mrk 1-3 Jaguar E types.
Have you seen some of the prices of them genuinly mass produced E-types these days.
Kind of throws a spanner into the arguments that they have made to many 355s for them to be of high value.
355s arnt doing to bad i dont think, and may rise again, who knows. I like others may remember when people on forums who used to talk with some authority about no 355 will ever go above 50-60 grand....ever, to many made, bla bla bla. That was back then and things/prices have moved on since then and may move on again. Who knows? No one does. But i do know that 14 years ago, i wish i had bought that 246 Dino i was looking at for £40 grand LOL
Although i have owned my 355 spider for 14 years, i dont really care either way about price increase, its a keeper smile
The Jag E type argument isnt valid both that and the 355/360/430 were built in volume numbers, but none of them have the rarity of an F40 or an Enzo or even of a Speciali. And thats the point - the really rare vehicles will always be valuable sometimes even if they come from unfashionable makers. But the large majority of collector cars are neither rare nor have any great merit in the sense that they moved the car design game onwards. Or had huge racing success. Etc. They have simply been carried upwards on a tide of sentiment. FFS even the prices asked for a Morris Marina have gone up!

Like it or not, the 355 did not change the sports car world in the way that the E type did,

FezSpider

841 posts

212 months

Friday 22nd December 2017
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bordseye said:
The Jag E type argument isnt valid both that and the 355/360/430 were built in volume numbers,
but none of them have the rarity of an F40 or an Enzo or even of a Speciali.

That was the point of my post, the volume numbers, so in that context, it was valid.
Regarding the rarity of an f40, enzo or speciali, thanks for that mr obvious LoL biggrin

sparta6

3,287 posts

80 months

Saturday 23rd December 2017
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bordseye said:
Like it or not, the 355 did not change the sports car world in the way that the E type did,
355 was the first production Ferrari designed to generate underfloor downforce. All supercars have since followed.



LA458SP

84 posts

86 months

Saturday 23rd December 2017
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sparta6 said:
bordseye said:
Like it or not, the 355 did not change the sports car world in the way that the E type did,
355 was the first production Ferrari designed to generate underfloor downforce. All supercars have since followed.
Pretty sure it was also the first car to have F1 style paddle gearshifts.... If so, I think that's a pretty big deal!

FezSpider

841 posts

212 months

Saturday 23rd December 2017
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LA458SP said:
Pretty sure it was also the first car to have F1 style paddle gearshifts.... If so, I think that's a pretty big deal!
It did indeed. The first road car to have the paddle shift.
Looks like that development was one of the most influential systems to be introduced into the modern cars.
Just to make it clear, I am not for one moment comparing the E tyoe car to the 355, so before some of you cherry pick certain words and make up a fictional argument of how the two cars are being compared, i am not. But what ground braking development did the E type introduce to the motoring world? Genuine question, i cant think of one of the top of my head.
I know jaguar introduced the disk brakes, but that was a few years before the E type wasnt it?
Wait a minute, wasn't it because of the Lemans E type testing its top speed on the M1 motorway the reason why the 70mph speed limit was introduced biggrin

Edited by FezSpider on Saturday 23 December 12:35

4rephill

4,942 posts

158 months

Saturday 23rd December 2017
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FezSpider said:
........Wait a minute, wasn't it because of the Lemans E type testing its top speed on the M1 motorway the reason why the 70mph speed limit was introduced biggrin
No - It's a motoring myth that also get credited incorrectly to the Le Mans AC Cobra coupe doing 185mph on the M1.

The 70mph speed limit was brought in due to the shear number of people in ordinary, everyday family cars having severe accidents due to driving flat out on motorways (the drum brakes, loose steering, soft suspension, high centres of gravity, poor weight distribution, and general pcensoredss poor handling from everyday cars of the time, combined with high speeds were found to be a bad combination)