Sale Or Return - Recommendations
Discussion
Nano2nd said:
dereksharpuk said:
SOR is a no no for me. As stated, any time waster can thrash your car. OK, perhaps down to the dealer if a problem occurs, but most will not take as much care as yourself. My last supercar was sold by me privately and I didn't even allow the buyer to drive it (he had no insurance). But I sold cheap. If you want to get the best price for a F430 (which I personally would never buy from a private individual) then I can highly recommend Ferrari Swindon who will look after you motor.
that doesn't make much sense, in my experience selling to Ferrari will get you the worst price!and if you're going to get more money for a SOR than a private sale, why would you care if any time waster thrashes your car? the whole point of SOR is you don't deal with the time wasters and as to whether someone "trashes" it, i really doubt any respectable SOR agent would allow it, plus what does it really matter if you've sold it and got an extra £10k in your pocket.
I would have said KHPC too, but at the moment Ferraris aren't selling that well because values have dropped over the last two or three years and many people having their cars on SOR don't want to let their cars go for the offers they are getting. It sounds like KHPC are full at the moment for that reason. You could try Autostore or Barr-Tech as someone has already mentioned, both near Cambridge. Autostore are currently moving a lot of Porsches and have sold a few Ferraris too (not all red)
Jex said:
I would have said KHPC too, but at the moment Ferraris aren't selling that well because values have dropped over the last two or three years and many people having their cars on SOR don't want to let their cars go for the offers they are getting. It sounds like KHPC are full at the moment for that reason. You could try Autostore or Barr-Tech as someone has already mentioned, both near Cambridge. Autostore are currently moving a lot of Porsches and have sold a few Ferraris too (not all red)
KHPC are currently showing 23 cars for sale right now, of which, 4 are showing as: "Sold", and three are showing as: "Deposit taken" - I'm pretty sure that's well below their capacity for cars they have for sale.They've also sold quite a few cars in recent months, that didn't hang around long at the dealership (a couple of 360's, a 308 GT4, a LHD 456, a LHD 550, a 308 GTS QV, a 308 GTB, a 328 GTS and a 348 TS spring to mind straight away).
I'd say that in general, they're actually bucking the general trend of Ferrari's not selling so well at the moment.
There are a couple of problems with trying to sell a Ferrari at the moment (especially an older 70's ~90's Ferrari):
1) The time of year.
Right now we're in Autumn, with a lot of wet days to come, and a lot of frosty mornings, with salt on the roads to come. Before we know it, it will be Winter, with more salt on the roads, and ice and snow all over the place (allegedly!) Those are not the ideal days to own a Ferrari, as there are less opportunities to use them, so a lot of buyers are put off spending their money.
Basically, we are at the end of what I call: "The Ferrari season"
If you watch the number of Ferrari's for sale on Pistonheads, and Autotrader throughout the year, you can see the number of cars available rise during the Spring/early Summer period, when the sunny days come round again, and buyers start dreaming of cruising around in a Ferrari. Savy owners wanting to sell know this, and so bring their cars out of Winter hibernation, get them serviced, and put them up for sale.
Throughout Summer, the number of cars for sale drops a little bit, and then levels out, as buyers have mostly already bought their cars, and are enjoying driving them.
Come the start of Autumn (late August and into September), just before the weather turns wet and miserable, the number of Ferrari's for sale increases again. This is in part due to owners looking to sell their cars before they incur winter storage costs, and servicing costs prior to the following years "Ferrari season" opening up.
October onwards, the number of Ferrari's for sale starts to drop off again, as prospective sellers give up on selling their car, due to the "Ferrari season" ending, and the knowledge that there are less buyers in the market, and the market value of the car dropping.
(If you don't believe me, start tracking the number of Ferrari's for sale yourselves over the next 12 months plus, and see the how the patterns develop)
2) Brexit.
Right now, the Country, and the economy are facing an uncertain future - Nobody knows what might happen.
Car factories are closing down/reducing output/halting production for weeks on end, due to the uncertain future.
Other big businesses are talking about possibly pulling out of the UK, post Brexit.
There's a possibility that we could be heading towards a major recession, and it's got a lot of people very nervous.
Where people were previously confident of their future, and happy to spend their money on expensive goods and cars (and to borrow large amounts of money) , many are now opting to hold off borrowing/spending money, to wait to see what the future will bring. That in turn means that the market for prestige cars is starting to drop, including the Ferrari market.
The Ferrari/prestige and general car markets, are gradually becoming a buyers market right now, rather than a sellers market, as they have been for the last few years.
Should Brexit work out well for the UK, and the economy improves, then the car markets, including the Ferrari market, will start to climb again, pretty quickly.
If Brexit turns out to be a disaster, and the economy drops or even nose dives, then there will suddenly be a lot of very nice cars on the market, for bargain prices, as many owners are forced to sell up.
The next 12 ~ 24 months should be very interesting indeed, and for anyone looking to buy a high end car, it may well pay to hold off for a year or two!
4rephill said:
KHPC are currently showing 23 cars for sale right now, of which, 4 are showing as: "Sold", and three are showing as: "Deposit taken" - I'm pretty sure that's well below their capacity for cars they have for sale.
They've also sold quite a few cars in recent months, that didn't hang around long at the dealership (a couple of 360's, a 308 GT4, a LHD 456, a LHD 550, a 308 GTS QV, a 308 GTB, a 328 GTS and a 348 TS spring to mind straight away).
I'd say that in general, they're actually bucking the general trend of Ferrari's not selling so well at the moment.
There are a couple of problems with trying to sell a Ferrari at the moment (especially an older 70's ~90's Ferrari):
1) The time of year.
Right now we're in Autumn, with a lot of wet days to come, and a lot of frosty mornings, with salt on the roads to come. Before we know it, it will be Winter, with more salt on the roads, and ice and snow all over the place (allegedly!) Those are not the ideal days to own a Ferrari, as there are less opportunities to use them, so a lot of buyers are put off spending their money.
Basically, we are at the end of what I call: "The Ferrari season"
If you watch the number of Ferrari's for sale on Pistonheads, and Autotrader throughout the year, you can see the number of cars available rise during the Spring/early Summer period, when the sunny days come round again, and buyers start dreaming of cruising around in a Ferrari. Savy owners wanting to sell know this, and so bring their cars out of Winter hibernation, get them serviced, and put them up for sale.
Throughout Summer, the number of cars for sale drops a little bit, and then levels out, as buyers have mostly already bought their cars, and are enjoying driving them.
Come the start of Autumn (late August and into September), just before the weather turns wet and miserable, the number of Ferrari's for sale increases again. This is in part due to owners looking to sell their cars before they incur winter storage costs, and servicing costs prior to the following years "Ferrari season" opening up.
October onwards, the number of Ferrari's for sale starts to drop off again, as prospective sellers give up on selling their car, due to the "Ferrari season" ending, and the knowledge that there are less buyers in the market, and the market value of the car dropping.
(If you don't believe me, start tracking the number of Ferrari's for sale yourselves over the next 12 months plus, and see the how the patterns develop)
2) Brexit.
Right now, the Country, and the economy are facing an uncertain future - Nobody knows what might happen.
Car factories are closing down/reducing output/halting production for weeks on end, due to the uncertain future.
Other big businesses are talking about possibly pulling out of the UK, post Brexit.
There's a possibility that we could be heading towards a major recession, and it's got a lot of people very nervous.
Where people were previously confident of their future, and happy to spend their money on expensive goods and cars (and to borrow large amounts of money) , many are now opting to hold off borrowing/spending money, to wait to see what the future will bring. That in turn means that the market for prestige cars is starting to drop, including the Ferrari market.
The Ferrari/prestige and general car markets, are gradually becoming a buyers market right now, rather than a sellers market, as they have been for the last few years.
Should Brexit work out well for the UK, and the economy improves, then the car markets, including the Ferrari market, will start to climb again, pretty quickly.
If Brexit turns out to be a disaster, and the economy drops or even nose dives, then there will suddenly be a lot of very nice cars on the market, for bargain prices, as many owners are forced to sell up.
The next 12 ~ 24 months should be very interesting indeed, and for anyone looking to buy a high end car, it may well pay to hold off for a year or two!
Thanks for that detailed response. I think you are right on both counts, the seasonality has always been there. Certainly the prices of Ferraris stalled or went into reverse after the referendum and the level of uncertainty only increased with the increasing probability of no deal.They've also sold quite a few cars in recent months, that didn't hang around long at the dealership (a couple of 360's, a 308 GT4, a LHD 456, a LHD 550, a 308 GTS QV, a 308 GTB, a 328 GTS and a 348 TS spring to mind straight away).
I'd say that in general, they're actually bucking the general trend of Ferrari's not selling so well at the moment.
There are a couple of problems with trying to sell a Ferrari at the moment (especially an older 70's ~90's Ferrari):
1) The time of year.
Right now we're in Autumn, with a lot of wet days to come, and a lot of frosty mornings, with salt on the roads to come. Before we know it, it will be Winter, with more salt on the roads, and ice and snow all over the place (allegedly!) Those are not the ideal days to own a Ferrari, as there are less opportunities to use them, so a lot of buyers are put off spending their money.
Basically, we are at the end of what I call: "The Ferrari season"
If you watch the number of Ferrari's for sale on Pistonheads, and Autotrader throughout the year, you can see the number of cars available rise during the Spring/early Summer period, when the sunny days come round again, and buyers start dreaming of cruising around in a Ferrari. Savy owners wanting to sell know this, and so bring their cars out of Winter hibernation, get them serviced, and put them up for sale.
Throughout Summer, the number of cars for sale drops a little bit, and then levels out, as buyers have mostly already bought their cars, and are enjoying driving them.
Come the start of Autumn (late August and into September), just before the weather turns wet and miserable, the number of Ferrari's for sale increases again. This is in part due to owners looking to sell their cars before they incur winter storage costs, and servicing costs prior to the following years "Ferrari season" opening up.
October onwards, the number of Ferrari's for sale starts to drop off again, as prospective sellers give up on selling their car, due to the "Ferrari season" ending, and the knowledge that there are less buyers in the market, and the market value of the car dropping.
(If you don't believe me, start tracking the number of Ferrari's for sale yourselves over the next 12 months plus, and see the how the patterns develop)
2) Brexit.
Right now, the Country, and the economy are facing an uncertain future - Nobody knows what might happen.
Car factories are closing down/reducing output/halting production for weeks on end, due to the uncertain future.
Other big businesses are talking about possibly pulling out of the UK, post Brexit.
There's a possibility that we could be heading towards a major recession, and it's got a lot of people very nervous.
Where people were previously confident of their future, and happy to spend their money on expensive goods and cars (and to borrow large amounts of money) , many are now opting to hold off borrowing/spending money, to wait to see what the future will bring. That in turn means that the market for prestige cars is starting to drop, including the Ferrari market.
The Ferrari/prestige and general car markets, are gradually becoming a buyers market right now, rather than a sellers market, as they have been for the last few years.
Should Brexit work out well for the UK, and the economy improves, then the car markets, including the Ferrari market, will start to climb again, pretty quickly.
If Brexit turns out to be a disaster, and the economy drops or even nose dives, then there will suddenly be a lot of very nice cars on the market, for bargain prices, as many owners are forced to sell up.
The next 12 ~ 24 months should be very interesting indeed, and for anyone looking to buy a high end car, it may well pay to hold off for a year or two!
W4NTED said:
Slades car's allow any tom dick and harry to walk in and test drive customer SOR cars which is a big no no in my books. They had one of my supercars cars for sale and could not sell it in over 9 weeks but they put 200 miles on it in that time. They also keep some cars outdoors as don't have enough space to keep all cars inside.
GVE London are better in that respect as unless they know you are serious they won't take the car out of that shiny showroom for anyone to test drive - the downside - they don't sell much - some cars have been in there for like 18 months!
From a Buyer's perspective...GVE London are better in that respect as unless they know you are serious they won't take the car out of that shiny showroom for anyone to test drive - the downside - they don't sell much - some cars have been in there for like 18 months!
Went to GVE and TWICE things didn't go as planned...
First Time
I contacted day before, confirmed the car I wanted to see was for sale and when I'd view.
Turned up, the car had been sold the week Before I had contacted them. So, when I phoned they did not have the car.
I was apologised to and tried to be "suggested" into another car. Left not impressed.
Second Time
Thought I'd give them another shot. This time I contacted them three times before made the journey!
Arrived, there are a lot of staff there but only one sales rep, which I found odd. The sales rep.was nowhere to be seen, I was asked to wait, fair enough. There were about 12 staff members, however none of these people seemed able to help. The showroom is in the detailing area, so lots of people who might be excellent detailers, but of those I met, not car specialists. Waited for 15-20mins past the agreed meet time, then the sales rep arrived.
Talked about the car, the car wasn't prepped for sale yet, but agreed certain things would be done if I purchased.
I clearly had detailed knowledge about the car for the questions that I was asking.
When it came to the test drive, this wasn't an option unless I paid a NON-REFUNDABLE deposit. Who would actually do that? I would only be refunded the deposit if it was discovered there was something wrong with the car. I didn't even want to drive the car, I was happy letting the salesman do that!
He was polite enough about this but, I can't help thinking turning up in the runabout car and in relaxed clothes might have been the reason. This despite my knowledge of the car and talking about my other cars. There was another customer there wearing head to toe white and sunglasses (despite being indoors) who they were fawning over.
Low and behold, I've out a deposit down elsewhere.
They might have a showroom full of very fancy cars, but I didn't enjoy the experience.
Edited by TCruise on Sunday 10th November 20:48
TCruise said:
W4NTED said:
Slades car's allow any tom dick and harry to walk in and test drive customer SOR cars which is a big no no in my books. They had one of my supercars cars for sale and could not sell it in over 9 weeks but they put 200 miles on it in that time. They also keep some cars outdoors as don't have enough space to keep all cars inside.
GVE London are better in that respect as unless they know you are serious they won't take the car out of that shiny showroom for anyone to test drive - the downside - they don't sell much - some cars have been in there for like 18 months!
From a Buyer's perspective...GVE London are better in that respect as unless they know you are serious they won't take the car out of that shiny showroom for anyone to test drive - the downside - they don't sell much - some cars have been in there for like 18 months!
Went to GVE and TWICE things didn't go as planned...
First Time
I contacted day before, confirmed the car I wanted to see was for sale and when I'd view.
Turned up, the car had been sold the week Before I had contacted them. So, when I phoned they did not have the car.
I was apologised to and tried to be "suggested" into another car. Left not impressed.
Second Time
Thought I'd give them another shot. This time I contacted them three times before made the journey!
Arrived, there are a lot of staff there but only one sales rep, which I found odd. The sales rep.was nowhere to be seen, I was asked to wait, fair enough. There were about 12 staff members, however none of these people seemed able to help. The showroom is in the detailing area, so lots of people who might be excellent detailers, but of those I met, not car specialists. Waited for 15-20mins past the agreed meet time, then the sales rep arrived.
Talked about the car, the car wasn't prepped for sale yet, but agreed certain things would be done if I purchased.
I clearly had detailed knowledge about the car for the questions that I was asking.
When it came to the test drive, this wasn't an option unless I paid a NON-REFUNDABLE deposit. Who would actually do that? I would only be refunded the deposit if it was discovered there was something wrong with the car. I didn't even want to drive the car, I was happy letting the salesman do that!
He was polite enough about this but, I can't help thinking turning up in the runabout car and in relaxed clothes might have been the reason. This despite my knowledge of the car and talking about my other cars. There was another customer there wearing head to toe white and sunglasses (despite being indoors) who they were fawning over.
Low and behold, I've out a deposit down elsewhere.
They might have a showroom full of very fancy cars, but I didn't enjoy the experience.
Edited by TCruise on Sunday 10th November 20:48
Contacted those guys a few months back to part ex my Aston against a 570s, few emails over and back sent them pics and a walk around video via WhatsApp promised to get back to me ASAP with a bid ...never heard from them again ...and they still have that 570 4 months later at same price ...pretty useless imo
Nano2nd said:
dereksharpuk said:
SOR is a no no for me. As stated, any time waster can thrash your car. OK, perhaps down to the dealer if a problem occurs, but most will not take as much care as yourself. My last supercar was sold by me privately and I didn't even allow the buyer to drive it (he had no insurance). But I sold cheap. If you want to get the best price for a F430 (which I personally would never buy from a private individual) then I can highly recommend Ferrari Swindon who will look after you motor.
that doesn't make much sense, in my experience selling to Ferrari will get you the worst price!and if you're going to get more money for a SOR than a private sale, why would you care if any time waster thrashes your car? the whole point of SOR is you don't deal with the time wasters and as to whether someone "trashes" it, i really doubt any respectable SOR agent would allow it, plus what does it really matter if you've sold it and got an extra £10k in your pocket.
But they brokerage fee is high. Sorry this is a little bit late in the day on this subject but I am considering moving on my F430 in January and my experience thus far is that I have only found one company who I am confident will give me the service I want and expect. Speak to Harvey at AV Engineering near Ashford in Kent. Small company, massive on service and know how.
Jex said:
4rephill said:
2) Brexit.
Right now, the Country, and the economy are facing an uncertain future - Nobody knows what might happen.
Car factories are closing down/reducing output/halting production for weeks on end, due to the uncertain future.
Other big businesses are talking about possibly pulling out of the UK, post Brexit.
There's a possibility that we could be heading towards a major recession, and it's got a lot of people very nervous.
Where people were previously confident of their future, and happy to spend their money on expensive goods and cars (and to borrow large amounts of money) , many are now opting to hold off borrowing/spending money, to wait to see what the future will bring. That in turn means that the market for prestige cars is starting to drop, including the Ferrari market.
The Ferrari/prestige and general car markets, are gradually becoming a buyers market right now, rather than a sellers market, as they have been for the last few years.
Should Brexit work out well for the UK, and the economy improves, then the car markets, including the Ferrari market, will start to climb again, pretty quickly.
If Brexit turns out to be a disaster, and the economy drops or even nose dives, then there will suddenly be a lot of very nice cars on the market, for bargain prices, as many owners are forced to sell up.
The next 12 ~ 24 months should be very interesting indeed, and for anyone looking to buy a high end car, it may well pay to hold off for a year or two!
Thanks for that detailed response. I think you are right on both counts, the seasonality has always been there. Certainly the prices of Ferraris stalled or went into reverse after the referendum and the level of uncertainty only increased with the increasing probability of no deal.Right now, the Country, and the economy are facing an uncertain future - Nobody knows what might happen.
Car factories are closing down/reducing output/halting production for weeks on end, due to the uncertain future.
Other big businesses are talking about possibly pulling out of the UK, post Brexit.
There's a possibility that we could be heading towards a major recession, and it's got a lot of people very nervous.
Where people were previously confident of their future, and happy to spend their money on expensive goods and cars (and to borrow large amounts of money) , many are now opting to hold off borrowing/spending money, to wait to see what the future will bring. That in turn means that the market for prestige cars is starting to drop, including the Ferrari market.
The Ferrari/prestige and general car markets, are gradually becoming a buyers market right now, rather than a sellers market, as they have been for the last few years.
Should Brexit work out well for the UK, and the economy improves, then the car markets, including the Ferrari market, will start to climb again, pretty quickly.
If Brexit turns out to be a disaster, and the economy drops or even nose dives, then there will suddenly be a lot of very nice cars on the market, for bargain prices, as many owners are forced to sell up.
The next 12 ~ 24 months should be very interesting indeed, and for anyone looking to buy a high end car, it may well pay to hold off for a year or two!
Cheib said:
Brexit is getting blamed for the soft car market in the UK a lot but whilst it’s definitely adding to the problem (and there’s stilluncertainty despite the GE result) the car market is soft globally. Auctions in the US and Europe have been weak too.
The US and European car markets are rarely in sync with the UK market. When Ferrari prices were peaking in the UK a few years ago, prices in the USA and Europe were still low - Hence a whole host of LHD cars were bought in those markets "cheap", and brought over here to try to sell for a big profit (most of which are still for sale, because LHD Ferrari's are not popular in the UK)
Brexit has had an effect on the UK and European markets due to creating an uncertain future for everyone, both in this Country and on the Continent.
The US market has been affected by Donald Trump's trade wars with just about every other nation, which has created economic instability and uncertainty about the future over there.
This has resulted in some Ferrari owners (and classic car owners in general), wanting to put security money in the bank, just in case, in all three markets (UK, EU & USA), and so they are selling their cars. With more cars for sale, an uncertain future, and people being wary of spending large sums of money, the market values are dropping.
A knock on effect of owners starting to sell their cars, and values starting to drop, is that other owners (especially those who bought their cars as an investment), note the market starting to drop, and so put their cars up for sale straight away, in order to maximise the amount they can get for the car (or as time goes on, try to avoid losing money on their cars). That then results in more cars being on the market, lowering the prices further.
A good thing is, as the market values drop, the cars start to become affordable for the enthusiasts again, who had previously been priced out of the market by the speculators.
Don’t disagree with any of that....the other factor is that manufacturers across the board are making an awful lot more cars in the £100k plus price bracket whether that is their traditional model lines or in the new premium SUV’s that are coming to market almost monthly. When you get up into the stratosphere of £1mil plus cars there seems no end to the pipeline. Hard to believe they will all find a home.
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