458 Values - again
Discussion
MDL111 said:
I am in the minority but I prefer without LEDs as they don’t switch off when you are in top gear and it is unpleasant to constantly have red lights in your eyes when you are trying to judge red brake lights in the distance at night
They are helpful on track though
That's because you're not in the UK where Svengali-like salesmen/FNE have managed to convince UK Ferrari buyers that shields(1), and latterly steering wheel LEDs(2), are essential. Both of these items are fundamental to the Ferrari driving experience in (and only?) the UK market. Having repeated this travesty of margin-enhancing marketing enough times it has, unfortunately, become true. See also: similar bagatelles from Porsche.They are helpful on track though
It wouldn't surprise me if by the time the Purosangue is launched UK buyers (read: salesmen) will deem only the newly released "modern (larger) shields"(3) to be the latest essential option for resale.
(1)
(2)
(3)
WilliamWaiver said:
Just out of interest at what rpm do the lights come on as I've never really paid attention on mine as I accelerate through the gears.
I don't take mine on motorways very often so would they be all lit up or some on cruising at 70 mph officer in top gear ?
I am not sure but I think the first one comes on at c 6k or maybe 6.5k ( I will drive the car tomorrow morning and report back ) - so if you are doing say 250-270 in top gear in the 430 you constantly have lights in your eyes - during the day it is fine but at night it does annoy after a whileI don't take mine on motorways very often so would they be all lit up or some on cruising at 70 mph officer in top gear ?
Probably not an issue in the UK though
MDL111 said:
I am not sure but I think the first one comes on at c 6k or maybe 6.5k ( I will drive the car tomorrow morning and report back ) - so if you are doing say 250-270 in top gear in the 430 you constantly have lights in your eyes - during the day it is fine but at night it does annoy after a while
Probably not an issue in the UK though
You can temporarily turn the LEDS off in the settings in about 5 seconds if driving 100mph plus in the dark and botherated.........Probably not an issue in the UK though
Both the Mclaren and the 458 are really great cars.
If I could afford it I would love to have both but not sure how I can justify. One would have to be kept on the drive.
Funny thing is I got my first speeding ticket today in the Mclaren which is an ominous sign. 😖
On margins we all accept dealers have margins and if you’re buying from a franchise dealer the margin is higher hence the spread is large.
The two variables are the dealer margins and depreciation.
Margin is a negotiation but depreciation is not. It will be what it will be.
What you want to do is have a vehicle that will have some stability on depreciation and then try and limit the loss on the margin through negotiation.
I would think a 458 at 130k will have around 20k margin. If the car depreciates a further 20k over the next two three years the price at trade would be around 90k. But I can’t see the price going below 120k retail so I think the worst case is a loss probably more likely around 30k max.
My Mclaren will continue to lose something similar but the Ferrari will maintain value better and hence equity to change into something else later on.
If I could afford it I would love to have both but not sure how I can justify. One would have to be kept on the drive.
Funny thing is I got my first speeding ticket today in the Mclaren which is an ominous sign. 😖
On margins we all accept dealers have margins and if you’re buying from a franchise dealer the margin is higher hence the spread is large.
The two variables are the dealer margins and depreciation.
Margin is a negotiation but depreciation is not. It will be what it will be.
What you want to do is have a vehicle that will have some stability on depreciation and then try and limit the loss on the margin through negotiation.
I would think a 458 at 130k will have around 20k margin. If the car depreciates a further 20k over the next two three years the price at trade would be around 90k. But I can’t see the price going below 120k retail so I think the worst case is a loss probably more likely around 30k max.
My Mclaren will continue to lose something similar but the Ferrari will maintain value better and hence equity to change into something else later on.
jw673 said:
That's because you're not in the UK where Svengali-like salesmen/FNE have managed to convince UK Ferrari buyers that shields(1), and latterly steering wheel LEDs(2), are essential. Both of these items are fundamental to the Ferrari driving experience in (and only?) the UK market. Having repeated this travesty of margin-enhancing marketing enough times it has, unfortunately, become true. See also: similar bagatelles from Porsche.
It wouldn't surprise me if by the time the Purosangue is launched UK buyers (read: salesmen) will deem only the newly released "modern (larger) shields"(3) to be the latest essential option for resale.
(1)
(2)
(3)
For me its not the LEDs that are the requirement. Its the CF Steering Wheel itself. I could do without the LEDS. But the CF steering wheel in general looks fantasic, makes you believe in what you are sitting in and very F1 car look. Standard wheel is very drab IMO.It wouldn't surprise me if by the time the Purosangue is launched UK buyers (read: salesmen) will deem only the newly released "modern (larger) shields"(3) to be the latest essential option for resale.
(1)
(2)
(3)
Wolf01 said:
Ultimately I’ve not owned a Ferrari so I’m also getting this out of my system and hence it’s a matter of getting a nice car and 458 will hold better value than most. And I will get some fun out of it ??
Thats fair enough and at least you are going in with your eyes open. Personally I think only a £10k drop at Retail in this market and over next 2-3 years is a tad optimistic as they have dropped circa £25k in last 12 months but hey its only money and you only live once so go live the dreamEdited by WilliamWaiver on Tuesday 14th July 23:48
garystoybox said:
MDL111 said:
I am not sure but I think the first one comes on at c 6k or maybe 6.5k ( I will drive the car tomorrow morning and report back ) - so if you are doing say 250-270 in top gear in the 430 you constantly have lights in your eyes - during the day it is fine but at night it does annoy after a while
Probably not an issue in the UK though
You can temporarily turn the LEDS off in the settings in about 5 seconds if driving 100mph plus in the dark and botherated.........Probably not an issue in the UK though
I can confirm they come on at 6k rpm and then increase in 500rpm steps
MDL111 said:
That’s interesting, thank you - should have maybe looked at the manual ....
I can confirm they come on at 6k rpm and then increase in 500rpm steps
Thanks for update but Oh dear the shame of it from my point of view as I'm clearly not driving car hard enough lol.I can confirm they come on at 6k rpm and then increase in 500rpm steps
Yeah I get the lights on accelerating in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear but probably not above and I also don't drive at night or on motorways so I've never found it annoying
Wolf01 said:
I have seen the car you’re talking about - you able to say why you were not able to close the deal - they are a bit slow but no issues so far and seem
Pleasant enough.
its quite a bit down in this thread the reason why > https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...Pleasant enough.
Safe to say i was not the only one they messed around with on that car.
I think it is a mixture of price reduction from Indies (who have less reserves that franchise dealers) and price stability from main dealers. Here is one example from Romans; it has been reduce a few times: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10139865?c...
dereksharpuk said:
I think it is a mixture of price reduction from Indies (who have less reserves that franchise dealers) and price stability from main dealers. Here is one example from Romans; it has been reduce a few times: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10139865?c...
Not a lot wrong with that. I like it a lot.Perhaps being pernickety here but I'm guessing mileage perhaps viewed as a little on the high side (20k+), no fancy carbon bucket seats and I'm not a great fan of the black wheels but they can be returned to diamond cut I imagine. I'd have liked it to have the carbon central bridge but that can be retrofitted if it's an issue. It has the all-important carbon wheel and driving zone, together with the obbligatoria shields.
Get it PPI'd by a Ferrari dealer to confirm they'd allow you to put a warranty on it and Robert's your mother's brother.
Gregor-lun1d said:
Not a lot wrong with that. I like it a lot.
Perhaps being pernickety here but I'm guessing mileage perhaps viewed as a little on the high side (20k+), no fancy carbon bucket seats and I'm not a great fan of the black wheels but they can be returned to diamond cut I imagine. I'd have liked it to have the carbon central bridge but that can be retrofitted if it's an issue. It has the all-important carbon wheel and driving zone, together with the obbligatoria shields.
Get it PPI'd by a Ferrari dealer to confirm they'd allow you to put a warranty on it and Robert's your mother's brother.
What does a PPI cost? Is it the case that by the time you've done that and paid for the warranty, you may as well have bought one from a main dealer? Or is this still better value? (looks nice in that grey, IMHO).Perhaps being pernickety here but I'm guessing mileage perhaps viewed as a little on the high side (20k+), no fancy carbon bucket seats and I'm not a great fan of the black wheels but they can be returned to diamond cut I imagine. I'd have liked it to have the carbon central bridge but that can be retrofitted if it's an issue. It has the all-important carbon wheel and driving zone, together with the obbligatoria shields.
Get it PPI'd by a Ferrari dealer to confirm they'd allow you to put a warranty on it and Robert's your mother's brother.
I can't recall off-hand. I think the inspection is c£700 but that is taken off the price you pay for the warranty. The only warranty I bought was for a 599 and the inspection and year's warranty was £3,500. I suspect a V8 warranty is a lower cost.
If you haggle Romans down to £132k - once Ferrari have given the green-light to warrantying it - then you're quids in. Whilst I haven't kept the closest eye on the market of late, I'd venture you have no hope of getting a sub-30k mile 458 Spider at less than £140k from a franchised dealer.
If you haggle Romans down to £132k - once Ferrari have given the green-light to warrantying it - then you're quids in. Whilst I haven't kept the closest eye on the market of late, I'd venture you have no hope of getting a sub-30k mile 458 Spider at less than £140k from a franchised dealer.
Romans car looks nice but I'm looking for one with racing seats. Is it just me or have coupe prices come down but spider prices havent really shifted much in the last 12 months? Cant help thinking (especially with limited use currently with tier 3/4 and lockdowns etc) prices will surely soften this coming year and may as well wait. Total crystal ball question but what does everyone else think?
suigeneris said:
Romans car looks nice but I'm looking for one with racing seats. Is it just me or have coupe prices come down but spider prices havent really shifted much in the last 12 months? Cant help thinking (especially with limited use currently with tier 3/4 and lockdowns etc) prices will surely soften this coming year and may as well wait. Total crystal ball question but what does everyone else think?
It’s exhausting seeing these questions again and again. Even if the prices do soften, and they have, you will then be asking if they are going to soften even further because they’ve already softened. It’s like the stock market, no one really knows where the tops and bottoms are and if we did we wouldn’t be telling people on piston heads! I have been silly enough to ask these questions myself previously so I’m not immune. I’ve also just bought a 458, yet to be delivered, so make of that what you will. Gassing Station | Ferrari V8 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff