Dreaming of my 1st Ferrari - Β£60k budget

Dreaming of my 1st Ferrari - Β£60k budget

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Discussion

johnag007

Original Poster:

238 posts

199 months

Wednesday 14th October
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Hello,

I have always been a Porsche man, however I now want some more character driving an albeit very nice latest Cayenne S for the family. Bear in mind I had 3 991s culminating in a 997 GT3 MkII. I want to "enjoy myself" including going onto the circuit 2-3 times a year.

Ordinarily I would go and test-drive the cars however the ones I have in mind require quite a bit of gymnastics to get to and arrange a test-drive:
1- Mondial T: far cheapest entry point. I can imagine they are much slower but would they give me the thrill of driving a real vintage Ferrari?
2- 355: the shape and sound is what does it for me, but is there a sense of occasion compared to the others?
3- 360/430: should I stretch to a 430?

Please let me know what I should usually budget for a service if you know. I will eventually start test driving them but I did want others' opinion on this eclectic list 1st.

Caddyshack

2,498 posts

164 months

Wednesday 14th October
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I think you will need to add £10k for the cheapest 430.

Can you get a decent 355 for 60k? Maybe lhd or F1 gearbox?

I think a good rule of thumb is still to allow 5% to 10% of the car price to look after but some years will be a lot cheaper if using a specialist.

I have only driven the 355, it was quite basic compared to what you have owned but they are still my favourite cars.

Diablos-666

2,751 posts

136 months

Wednesday 14th October
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Not sure if my opinion is worth much but here goes...

I’ve been on a few track days and I’ve never seen a Ferrari there (well at least not on track itself)

I’ve seen plenty of GT3s however. I’ve been on track in my previously owned 993, 996, and my current car a Lotus Exige V6.

I did have as Aston Martin V8V but the running costs even before considering track work were eye opening, I’d imagine a Ferrari of any vintage being the same.

I was at a recent track day with my Exige and a mate with a slightly track prepared hot hatch. I can honestly say it was more fun in the hot hatch. It went really well and you wasn’t thinking about how much maintenance was going to cost.

If you want a car for show then the Ferrari wins hands down but if you want to really enjoy driving fast and to the limit then a hot hatch takes some beating.

The Exige was great fun too but my car cost £40k+ and my mates car cost £5k all in. So a big difference in how the car is driven, to me anyway.

Also, a lot of tracks have noise limits which a Ferrari might struggle with.

johnnyreggae

2,492 posts

118 months

Wednesday 14th October
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Mondial T will not be much slower than a 355 but the 355 will have bigger bills - 360 is probably your optimum solution - lots of buying advice here and elsewhere on the web eg google Voicey Ferrari link

ANOpax

249 posts

124 months

Thursday 15th October
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F355 is smaller than the 360 and F430 and feels more nimble as a result. The engine sound is also better.

Regarding running costs, you could be lucky or unlucky. I bought the cheapest F355 I could find but I made sure it has been well looked after and had all the known weak points addressed. It was cheap because it had (deep breath) 55,000 miles on it. It was utterly reliable in the three years I had it and the only non service related expense was to replace a duff spark plug.

SFTWend

211 posts

33 months

Thursday 15th October
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I think the F430 works well on track but you would struggle to find a good one for your budget. A really nice 360 Modena is in budget though.

I owned a F355, which certainly provided a sense of occasion, but it would be embarrassed on track by the 911s you've owned. Again, looking a lhd or F1 in your budget.

The Mondial has always been a bit unloved so could be a great entry point to Ferrari ownership budget wise. 348s used to be out of favour but got pulled up by F355 prices. A 348 would possibly challenge your driving skills on track as it lacks some Nanny electronics.

To my mind any Ferrari provides a sense of occasion. They have Italian soul, the smell of the leather, the looks and the noise.

Bispal

810 posts

109 months

Thursday 15th October
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I bought an F355 under £60k. It repeatedly let me down and over the 2 years i had it and cost me £10k in repairs and servicing. If you want a 355 get the best available,so £80k+, allow £5k pa for servicing/repairs.

Most owners only seem to do 1k miles a year so per miles so they are expensive cars to run per mile. If you can repair yourself and are handy with a spanner they start to make sense, otherwise you are at the mercy of the specialist's and they are all cut from the same cloth and that cloth is made of money......

As lovely as they look and sound as mentioned above an Exige drives much better and sounds as great for half the price and can be used on track and the interior will not melt into a gooey mess.





Roof down

250 posts

84 months

Thursday 15th October
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SFTWend said:
I think the F430 works well on track but you would struggle to find a good one for your budget. A really nice 360 Modena is in budget though.

I owned a F355, which certainly provided a sense of occasion, but it would be embarrassed on track by the 911s you've owned. Again, looking a lhd or F1 in your budget.

The Mondial has always been a bit unloved so could be a great entry point to Ferrari ownership budget wise. 348s used to be out of favour but got pulled up by F355 prices. A 348 would possibly challenge your driving skills on track as it lacks some Nanny electronics.

To my mind any Ferrari provides a sense of occasion. They have Italian soul, the smell of the leather, the looks and the noise.
That’s if for me for Ferrari, the looks , the noise, the smell of the leather, the only things I miss about my 360 spider.
Nothing else, not the bills nor the worry, nor the driving Either , Ferrari to me was like owning a beautiful collectible old toy, or desirable piece of art, especially the 360 and that is what I would go for again, it’s in your range, but buy most carefully, a 10 k Bill is never far away.
Good luck, Mike

MDL111

4,884 posts

135 months

Thursday 15th October
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I haven’t driven a Mondial (the looks don’t really work for me tbh) or a 360, but have done about 20k miles in a 355 and roughly the same in a 430

Focusing on looks and sense of occasion first: I think the 355 wins this one hands down, it sounds and looks by far the best imo. The 360 sounds pretty special as well, the 430 drops off in that comparison in my view (the bigger engine just doesn’t sound as good). I don’t think Ferrari has designed a truly beautiful Ferrari since the 355/550 era (possibly the Monza, but I haven’t seen one of those in person yet).

Driving: I really enjoyed driving my 355, it revved quickly, needed to by high up in the rev band to start to move (think 5-6k plus). The manual transmission was a treat, if not as quick as a Porsche transmission. It felt at home doing the commute in London as much as on an open country road or the autobahn. I never took the 355 on track apart from a parade lap, but suspect you would need to upgrade the suspension and brakes (and possibly seats) to make it work for extended periods of time and keep up with Porsches (definitely needs better tyres than the crap Pirelli). Pre-COVID I was in discussions to buy a 355 Challenge to use as a track day and mountain road car (that is unfortunately not happening for the time being)
The 430 (mine is a Scuderia) is a great drivers tool. It works really well on track once you change the geo to a more appropriate setup (and possibly the tyres to Cup 2 or Trofeo R). The car is quite soft compared to a GT3, so works well on the road as well without feeling uncomfortable. Certainly fast enough to keep up with most cars on the autobahn. On track the F1 transmission is great, under load and high revs it changes gear in an impressive manner - feels much more visceral than the DCT to me. On the road (maybe with the exception of the autobahn) I personally find it a bit boring - the car is too fast to really go through the gears at high revs and then without the interaction of the manual gear change it can’t compete with say a 355 or a GT3 IMO.

Cost:
The 355 will without a doubt be more expensive over time than the others imo (the engine out service alone will take care of that). By now they are also really quite old. in my case, the 430 has probably cost me a similar amount to the 355 over similar mileage though, so the above does not mean it always has to be more expensive (both c. 25-30k euros at a guess)

355: 2 small and 1 big service, alternator, both manifolds, clutch, straight pipes (cats were done), tyres, and some other things that I can’t remember (10 years plus ago)
430: 2 services (3rd one coming up), both manifolds, exhaust backbox (twice), tyres, geo, brake pads, and probably some other stuff




Tuscan Wil

398 posts

144 months

Thursday 15th October
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My 2p worth for a Thursday morning.

I was in a similar position to you - looking at F355, 360 or F430

Styling
Looks wise I think most would agree that F355 will probably the best looking among your short list. There are a huge amount of debate between 360 vs F430. None of them are wrong as it is just down to your personal taste. I appreciate 360 styling but just prefer the more refined modern design in F430 both exterior and interior.

Transmission
If manual is a must for you then, you can forget F430 to be within your budget. Again it is quite personal, I actually love the F1 swift rawness and "clunky" feel in comparison to the modern DCT. It feel so mechanical and engaging, the 360 F1 will be a bit more raw if that is your thing, but the F430 F1 is an update from 360. I think some can now remap the gear to be on par with 360 Challenge Stradale

Running cost
With all being equal, F355 will tend to be more costly over long term ownerships as many have said here. There are 20 years difference between them so F430 would tend to be easier on your wallet, as it has quite a strong engine if looked after - proper warm up and regular service. Ultimately, they are all Ferrari, not a Fiat Panda. So you can't expect to run on a shoe string. They all have their own achilles heels.

Engine
Power will be F430, then 360 and F355
Noise (imho) will be the other way round.

Handling
Again it is very personal, specially on track. It depends what you are after. F430 is very capable, it is really fun to drive and easy to drive fast among all of them. But if the thrill of wet trousers that you may come off or spin is your thing, then the older cars are probably more of your choice. I compared the F430 to my Tuscan. I can do much better lap time in my F430 of course, it is so compliant and predictable. However I actually feel more exhilarated in my Tuscan as I am not as good driver as other that I just never really knew what the car will do from one corner to the next.

You just need got to look at and drive all of them and see which one give you the butterfly in your stomach. Good luck with your search, toying which toy to get is one of the best part of the whole experience in my opinion.



dereksharpuk

139 posts

126 months

Thursday 15th October
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For what it is worth: I have had two 360s & three 430s. The 430 is the better car all round, but I prefer the sound of the 360. I have never driven a 355, like the looks, would not like the old technology & running costs, but small is good. The modern Ferraris (488, F8) are too big & far too 'Sony Playstation'. All will appreciate in time, but not for quite some time.

MDL111

4,884 posts

135 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
MDL111 said:
I haven’t driven a Mondial (the looks don’t really work for me tbh) or a 360, but have done about 20k miles in a 355 and roughly the same in a 430

Focusing on looks and sense of occasion first: I think the 355 wins this one hands down, it sounds and looks by far the best imo. The 360 sounds pretty special as well, the 430 drops off in that comparison in my view (the bigger engine just doesn’t sound as good). I don’t think Ferrari has designed a truly beautiful Ferrari since the 355/550 era (possibly the Monza, but I haven’t seen one of those in person yet).

Driving: I really enjoyed driving my 355, it revved quickly, needed to by high up in the rev band to start to move (think 5-6k plus). The manual transmission was a treat, if not as quick as a Porsche transmission. It felt at home doing the commute in London as much as on an open country road or the autobahn. I never took the 355 on track apart from a parade lap, but suspect you would need to upgrade the suspension and brakes (and possibly seats) to make it work for extended periods of time and keep up with Porsches (definitely needs better tyres than the crap Pirelli). Pre-COVID I was in discussions to buy a 355 Challenge to use as a track day and mountain road car (that is unfortunately not happening for the time being)
The 430 (mine is a Scuderia) is a great drivers tool. It works really well on track once you change the geo to a more appropriate setup (and possibly the tyres to Cup 2 or Trofeo R). The car is quite soft compared to a GT3, so works well on the road as well without feeling uncomfortable. Certainly fast enough to keep up with most cars on the autobahn. On track the F1 transmission is great, under load and high revs it changes gear in an impressive manner - feels much more visceral than the DCT to me. On the road (maybe with the exception of the autobahn) I personally find it a bit boring - the car is too fast to really go through the gears at high revs and then without the interaction of the manual gear change it can’t compete with say a 355 or a GT3 IMO.

Cost:
The 355 will without a doubt be more expensive over time than the others imo (the engine out service alone will take care of that). By now they are also really quite old. in my case, the 430 has probably cost me a similar amount to the 355 over similar mileage though, so the above does not mean it always has to be more expensive (both c. 25-30k euros at a guess)

355: 2 small and 1 big service, alternator, both manifolds, clutch, straight pipes (cats were done), tyres, and some other things that I can’t remember (10 years plus ago)
430: 2 services (3rd one coming up), both manifolds, exhaust backbox (twice), tyres, geo, brake pads, and probably some other stuff
Edit: 430 also needed a new windshield (6k....)
The 430 was serviced at a main dealer and the 355 at UK independents - if I had gone to a main dealer, the 355 would have cost substantially more as a lot of it was work hours

dinkel

25,567 posts

216 months

Thursday 15th October
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I never get why anyone would want a Ferrari on a budget... It's just not a good idea.

sopes1

22 posts

44 months

Thursday 15th October
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As others say, plenty of advice on these sites...

I can only really echo most points above notably that none of the Ferrari's you mention will be as good on track as the cars you've had previously.

I own a 355 Spider LHD manual and a Scuderia. They are completely different cars. The Scud doesn't get anywhere near it's potential on the road but the track is a different matter although I've only managed that once due to noise restrictions.

I almost prefer the 355 on the road as you get more engagement at a slower speed...For the Scud to come alive you're already going way faster than you should...

My 355 has a Capristo Exhaust on it, sounds really good even at tic over. Very easy to drive even the wife enjoys driving it in London... Cost wise insurance is cheap, servicing is £600-700 a year at a great specialist place I use. On top of service costs I've had about £3-4k of additional extras over 4 years. Been using it as my daily driver this summer just pottering around, hasn't missed a beat. A lot of car and occasion for the money but track car it is not.

jtremlett

934 posts

180 months

Thursday 15th October
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dinkel said:
I never get why anyone would want a Ferrari on a budget... It's just not a good idea.
Surely almost every Ferrari owner will have some kind of budget? I don't really get your point. When I buy cars I have a budget, who doesn't? So the OP has set a budget for purchase which seems sensible. Then, equally sensibly he's asking what he might expect maintenance to cost. If you really mean running a Ferrari on a shoestring then of course you're right but I don't see that being suggested here.

WCZ

7,945 posts

152 months

Thursday 15th October
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dinkel said:
I never get why anyone would want a Ferrari on a budget... It's just not a good idea.
if it's vs not having one then I get it

I personally would go 360/430 and avoid the 355

davek_964

6,966 posts

133 months

Thursday 15th October
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I admit I never tried a 355 (did have a 348 though), and never tried a 430 - but highly recommend a 360 for that budget. They are fantastic cars.

Not sure I agree with the "always a £10k bill around the corner" either. They can throw big bills of course - any car like this can - and they have some well documented issues. However, such failures are pretty rare and even if you are that unlucky, it's not like it's going to happen annually. I did have one expensive "common failure" - but even that was quite a bit less than £10k to fix in the end.

dinkel

25,567 posts

216 months

Thursday 15th October
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jtremlett said:
dinkel said:
I never get why anyone would want a Ferrari on a budget... It's just not a good idea.
Surely almost every Ferrari owner will have some kind of budget? I don't really get your point. When I buy cars I have a budget, who doesn't? So the OP has set a budget for purchase which seems sensible. Then, equally sensibly he's asking what he might expect maintenance to cost. If you really mean running a Ferrari on a shoestring then of course you're right but I don't see that being suggested here.
Shoestring... I heard to many moaning dudes complaining about huge running costs. They need to understand it's not a 911.

johnag007

Original Poster:

238 posts

199 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Wow many thanks, super informative all of you!

I do realise I could push my 911s on the circuit far more than most Ferraris (and certainly cheaper) however kids mean I need to get my hit somehow on the road as well. That means sense of occasion, noise and gearbox combo need to be pleasurable.

It is becoming clear to me I either need to test them. From the above my preference would be 355 and 430, the 360 I had driven is just too soft (Challenge Stradale though was amazing).

By the way I test drove a Roma curtesy of Ferrari and that was otherworldly as an elegant but strong combination of a sense of occasion and pushiness on circuit.

davek_964

6,966 posts

133 months

Thursday 15th October
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dinkel said:
Shoestring... I heard to many moaning dudes complaining about huge running costs. They need to understand it's not a 911.
For most of the 6.5 years I had my 360, I'd say the costs were comparable to the 911 turbo I had.

johnag007 said:
From the above my preference would be 355 and 430, the 360 I had driven is just too soft (Challenge Stradale though was amazing).
In what way was it "soft"? That's definitely not a word I'd have used to describe my 360.