550 Maranello article - they'll be £200k before you know it!
Discussion
21ATS said:
ferrisbueller said:
They've hardly smashed it out the park, just bid more than you wanted to pay. Assuming CC doesn't allow duplicate user IDs, that user has bought (paid for and collected) at least one other car from CC.
You don't find it odd that the bids were taken up and then the questions about history start?It was that bit I found odd. Surely you'd like this information before you are the current winning bidder?
EDIT, I've just thought about this and it dawned on me it's actually irrelevant as the reserve appears to have not been met yet.
Edited by 21ATS on Monday 12th October 22:47
Your point was that the bidder was an insider or employee. I was just pointing out that the user ID in question has bought from CC before.
jtremlett said:
SFTWend said:
Very sensible. I think £60k was plenty given service interval gaps and lesser known garages having maintained the car.
It's reached current bid much earlier than one would expect. If you read recent CC thread content there is enough rumour and gossip to make one question whether buying via this medium is a good idea.
I wouldn't for a moment wish to suggest anyone should bid higher that they have decided to. That said, I can't really see much of an issue with the service history. It looks like it missed a service or two 10 years ago. If that was going to lead to any issues they would have happened before now. Also the last couple of services have been by QV who are a known specialist even if I don't know some of the others. It's reached current bid much earlier than one would expect. If you read recent CC thread content there is enough rumour and gossip to make one question whether buying via this medium is a good idea.
But also the service history may not necessarily be a complete record of the servicing it has actually had. When I bought my own 550 it had some gaps in the service history in the service book. However, it also came with paperwork for a service that hadn't been recorded in the book. After I bought the car I took the book and paperwork to Maranello's to get them to add in the stamp for the service I had the paperwork for. They were happy to do that for me (although I know them well anyway) and I happened to ask if there were any other services on their system not in the book. I ended up going away with stamps in the book for four services that had been done at a main dealer but were not previously stamped in the book. I'm sure that isn't an infrequent occurrence because I have taken cars in for service and forgotten to take the book and I've taken cars in for service and the dealer has forgotten to stamp the book.
In any case, really the service history is only backing up the condition of the car and it is that which is really the most important thing in my view.
SFTWend said:
Traders dont have any consumer/warranty obligations when selling via auction.
Apparently it's fairly standard practice for auction house employees to bid a car close to reserve. Also, the other thread suggests some cars recorded as sold aren't.
You're confusing CC with a traditional auction model.Apparently it's fairly standard practice for auction house employees to bid a car close to reserve. Also, the other thread suggests some cars recorded as sold aren't.
Whilst their format is that of an auction in so much as you "bid", they aren't doing anything other than hosting a sale between two parties.
What do I mean?
Say you go to Bonhams to buy a car. You are buying the car from Bonhams, not the owner. The owner consigns the car to Bonhams and pays a fee, they market it, host an auction, you bid and win and also pay a fee. You pay the winning bid plus fee to Bonhams, they then pay the owner of the car.
On CC, you bid. If you meet reserve CC puts you in touch with the person selling the car and you complete the transaction directly as a private sale assuming the seller hasn't identified themselves as a trader. All after CC has taken it's 6% commission of course.
CC isn't an auction house, it's an advertising platform in the same way Autotrader or Ebay are.
Edited by 21ATS on Tuesday 13th October 12:27
ferrisbueller said:
I don't find it odd, no. Given how "safe" the original bid was.
Your point was that the bidder was an insider or employee. I was just pointing out that the user ID in question has bought from CC before.
To me the bid pattern and timing bore all the hallmarks of someone bidding on behalf of the house taking it up to close to the reserve.Your point was that the bidder was an insider or employee. I was just pointing out that the user ID in question has bought from CC before.
I wasn't expecting to be outbid unitl the final day based on all previous sales on this site I'd been watching.
I may be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.
21ATS said:
ferrisbueller said:
I don't find it odd, no. Given how "safe" the original bid was.
Your point was that the bidder was an insider or employee. I was just pointing out that the user ID in question has bought from CC before.
To me the bid pattern and timing bore all the hallmarks of someone bidding on behalf of the house taking it up to close to the reserve.Your point was that the bidder was an insider or employee. I was just pointing out that the user ID in question has bought from CC before.
I wasn't expecting to be outbid unitl the final day based on all previous sales on this site I'd been watching.
I may be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.
ferrisbueller said:
If it helps, a user with that ID bought my friend's car off CC and having placed a bid then asked various questions, and then bid significantly more up to the end of the auction. The car was subsequently paid for and collected.
I wonder if he's a trader then? He seems to be very prolific. I've seen his name bidding on a lot of what I've been watching.21ATS said:
ferrisbueller said:
If it helps, a user with that ID bought my friend's car off CC and having placed a bid then asked various questions, and then bid significantly more up to the end of the auction. The car was subsequently paid for and collected.
I wonder if he's a trader then? He seems to be very prolific. I've seen his name bidding on a lot of what I've been watching.21ATS said:
You're confusing CC with a traditional auction model.
Whilst their format is that of an auction in so much as you "bid", they aren't doing anything other than hosting a sale between two parties.
What do I mean?
Say you go to Bonhams to buy a car. You are buying the car from Bonhams, not the owner. The owner consigns the car to Bonhams and pays a fee, they market it, host an auction, you bid and win and also pay a fee. You pay the winning bid plus fee to Bonhams, they then pay the owner of the car.
On CC, you bid. If you meet reserve CC puts you in touch with the person selling the car and you complete the transaction directly as a private sale assuming the seller hasn't identified themselves as a trader. All after CC has taken it's 6% commission of course.
CC isn't an auction house, it's an advertising platform in the same way Autotrader or Ebay are.
Not quite right...the auction house deals with the cash, but it's still you that's on the hook if buyer doesn't pay.Whilst their format is that of an auction in so much as you "bid", they aren't doing anything other than hosting a sale between two parties.
What do I mean?
Say you go to Bonhams to buy a car. You are buying the car from Bonhams, not the owner. The owner consigns the car to Bonhams and pays a fee, they market it, host an auction, you bid and win and also pay a fee. You pay the winning bid plus fee to Bonhams, they then pay the owner of the car.
On CC, you bid. If you meet reserve CC puts you in touch with the person selling the car and you complete the transaction directly as a private sale assuming the seller hasn't identified themselves as a trader. All after CC has taken it's 6% commission of course.
CC isn't an auction house, it's an advertising platform in the same way Autotrader or Ebay are.
Edited by 21ATS on Tuesday 13th October 12:27
In fact, they have t their T&Cs that they can take action to pursue the defaulting buyer, and the costs of recovery are deducted from your proceeds, but their fee is still payable in full as a priority. The owner doesn't get paid (net of commission and any legal costs) until the cash is received from bidder.
Bonhams is acting as an agent for the vendor, no more than that
Edited by footsoldier on Tuesday 13th October 13:33
Edited by footsoldier on Tuesday 13th October 13:58
footsoldier said:
Not quite right...the auction house deals with the cash, but it's still you that's on the hook if buyer doesn't pay.
In fact, they have t their T&Cs that they can take action to pursue the defaulting buyer, and the costs of recovery are deducted from your proceeds, but their fee is still payable in full. The owner doesn't get paid until the cash is received from bidder.
Bonhams is acting as an agent for the vendor, no more than that
However, unlike CC they are handling the financial transaction.In fact, they have t their T&Cs that they can take action to pursue the defaulting buyer, and the costs of recovery are deducted from your proceeds, but their fee is still payable in full. The owner doesn't get paid until the cash is received from bidder.
Bonhams is acting as an agent for the vendor, no more than that
Edited by footsoldier on Tuesday 13th October 13:33
Does that provide any form of guarantee (I'm thinking Coys here)?
the car failed to reach it's reserve last night right ?
well it's been relisted today, auction now ending on Friday.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-ferrari-5...
perhaps they couldn't get hold of the owner last night to lower the reserve, so now it goes back in having spoken to the vendor and with the reserve set lower ? who knows, i suppose the lack of transparency is what one should expect from a auction platform.
well it's been relisted today, auction now ending on Friday.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-ferrari-5...
perhaps they couldn't get hold of the owner last night to lower the reserve, so now it goes back in having spoken to the vendor and with the reserve set lower ? who knows, i suppose the lack of transparency is what one should expect from a auction platform.
21ATS said:
However, unlike CC they are handling the financial transaction.
Does that provide any form of guarantee (I'm thinking Coys here)?
Yes, they do handle the transaction, but in my experience CC get involved to make sure it's all smooth.Does that provide any form of guarantee (I'm thinking Coys here)?
Coys situation shows a benefit of CC, imo, also versus an SOR sale. The car is in your garage until you get paid - the best kind of guarantee!
Zero risk, unlike money going to an auction house (who might go bust...) or similarly an SOR trader, who then need to send on to you, after the car is gone.
The bigger auction houses have you sign a Power of Attorney so they can complete paperwork on your behalf. CC it's all still in your hands.
For a buyer, yes the auction house does provide some kind of guarantee that you'll get the car or your money back, but that's the same if you don't pay until collection of a CC car. The auction houses do not take responsibility/liability for descriptions not being up to scratch.
in both formats, it's caveat emptor.
seawise said:
the car failed to reach it's reserve last night right ?
well it's been relisted today, auction now ending on Friday.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-ferrari-5...
perhaps they couldn't get hold of the owner last night to lower the reserve, so now it goes back in having spoken to the vendor and with the reserve set lower ? who knows, i suppose the lack of transparency is what one should expect from a auction platform.
I think it was always ending Friday, wasn't it?well it's been relisted today, auction now ending on Friday.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-ferrari-5...
perhaps they couldn't get hold of the owner last night to lower the reserve, so now it goes back in having spoken to the vendor and with the reserve set lower ? who knows, i suppose the lack of transparency is what one should expect from a auction platform.
Ah, ok - that explains it ! D’oh.
jtremlett said:
seawise said:
the car failed to reach it's reserve last night right ?
well it's been relisted today, auction now ending on Friday.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-ferrari-5...
perhaps they couldn't get hold of the owner last night to lower the reserve, so now it goes back in having spoken to the vendor and with the reserve set lower ? who knows, i suppose the lack of transparency is what one should expect from a auction platform.
I think it was always ending Friday, wasn't it?well it's been relisted today, auction now ending on Friday.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2000-ferrari-5...
perhaps they couldn't get hold of the owner last night to lower the reserve, so now it goes back in having spoken to the vendor and with the reserve set lower ? who knows, i suppose the lack of transparency is what one should expect from a auction platform.
Well, compared to most models, Ferrari's had been going for fairly sensible money on CC. But the private sale example discussed above just went for a touch over £80k including commission. I think that's a lot given a couple of respected dealers are asking just under £90k, before discount, for lower mileage examples with arguably better history. JB's TDF example with similar miles is now only £70k.
Maybe the price reflects the CC magic or perhaps a couple of punters particularly wanted that colour scheme. Or is this the money for a driver now? In the knowledge a respected Ferrari specialist sold a good example for £60k last year I'm scratching my head.
Maybe the price reflects the CC magic or perhaps a couple of punters particularly wanted that colour scheme. Or is this the money for a driver now? In the knowledge a respected Ferrari specialist sold a good example for £60k last year I'm scratching my head.
This one went for 66k, lhd Japanese car, a manual as well. Looks nice to me.
Thoughts?
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-ferrari-5...
Thoughts?
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-ferrari-5...
FezSpider said:
This one went for 66k, lhd Japanese car, a manual as well. Looks nice to me.
Thoughts?
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-ferrari-5...
It came up for auction in July and didn't make reserve. Here's the original listing:-Thoughts?
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-ferrari-5...
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1997-ferrari-5...
High bid was £62,000
Then it appeared again in the upcoming auctions section two days ago - Interesting I thought, lets see what it goes for this time, I quite liked it and was going to have a bid this time round.
It never went live, it just appeared as Sold 24 hrs later. So I guess a deal may have been done based on the original listing or maybe something was done directly but it certainly never made it to the bidding section this time.
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