FF prices

Author
Discussion

21ATS

963 posts

56 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
One more thing with FF's.

There are two markets for these cars in the UK, one with Panoramic roofs and one without, each one then breaks down into the usual mileage, history numbers of owners after that. Whether or not that's justified isn't really a conversation, it's just how it is and the prices are noticeably different.

A car with a Pano roof is much much easier to move on.


21ATS

963 posts

56 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
ANOpax said:
21ATS said:
Avoid the first two years of production (2011/12) those are the cars more prone to PTU problems, there were some tiny but important changes made from 2013 onwards.
Agreed with everything apart from this point. It’s the DCT brittle tie wrap problem in the early cars which made the 2011/12 cars a slightly riskier proposition.

There is little correlation between age and PTU failure based on the database that I’ve been keeping. In fact, the really old cars are statistically less likely to fail as they’re now two standard deviations away from the mean age of failure laugh I guess that’s lies, damned lies and statistics for you…

But, intuitively, it makes some sense - if a car is going to break down due to poor assembly or parts choice then it probably will have done so already in the last decade.

We’re now at a stage with the age of these cars where you should be buying on condition. I’d rather take a pristine 2011 car than a rabbity 2016, all else being equal.


Edited by ANOpax on Sunday 6th November 07:53
Makes sense and I can't disagree with any of it. I am wary of VERY low mileage cars though or cars sat unusaed for extended periods of time. They seem to throw as many of not more problems up than a realtively well used one.

ANOpax

670 posts

150 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
21ATS said:
Be realistic is all I'm saying. You may very well buy an FF and get out again with only a 10% loss and running costs of £3K a year.
It's also possible that Jason61 may never come to sell it.
The pool of available cars has shrunk as some get crashed but the majority are finding 'permanent' homes. Look at MDL111 - 85k km on his and the love affair is still going strong. My wife has told me that if we ever fall on hard times, the last car to go will be the FF.

Harris nailed it in his FF review when he said that it's a special place to be at any speed - even when stuck on the M4 in lashing rain on a Friday night...


21ATS

963 posts

56 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
Kettmark said:
I've been contemplating an ff for a while now. Currently have a Granturismo and keeping an eye on the classifieds. Same cars still for sale....
I bought mine before the photographs even hit the classifieds, the advert then stayed live for another 2 months. Good ones tend to move like this, they will often not even make classifieds before being moved on.

It just happend to be the perfect spec for me so I got it before anyone else did.

Do take a look at the ratio of cars advertised with plain roofs to the pano roof.

So if you genuinely want one, put some feelers out with specialists and it's likely they have a customer who may well move a car on that has known provenance. A lot of owners of these cars own multiple vehicles and don't really need to to sell them, but if the right offer/buyer comes along they let them go.

That's another part of the Ferrari market that's a little odd. Many owners don't need the money, they often would prefer to keep the car than sell it for what they think is less than it's worth. That's much more the case with V12's which are generally produced in much smaller numbers than the mid engied cars.

There are a little over 200 FF's in the UK. That's a pretty small pool of cars to buying from particualrly if like me, you're a bit fussy with spec and colours. So when one I did like came up I just accepted I had to pay what they were asking.

21ATS

963 posts

56 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
ANOpax said:
It's also possible that Jason61 may never come to sell it.
The pool of available cars has shrunk as some get crashed but the majority are finding 'permanent' homes. Look at MDL111 - 85k km on his and the love affair is still going strong. My wife has told me that if we ever fall on hard times, the last car to go will be the FF.

Harris nailed it in his FF review when he said that it's a special place to be at any speed - even when stuck on the M4 in lashing rain on a Friday night...
I'm only 3 months in and I'm struggling to imagine what I'd buy to replace the FF. I'm doing a bit of minor tinkering to get it right and I want get the exhaust quieter around town at traffic speeds but other than that I can't see mine going anywhere, not with the mileage I'm putting on it.

ANOpax

670 posts

150 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
Kettmark said:
I've been contemplating an ff for a while now. Currently have a Granturismo and keeping an eye on the classifieds. Same cars still for sale....
I think the UK's mileage obsession is partly to blame. A quick glance at the PH classifieds suggests that c.half the FFs for sale have 30k miles or more. UK Ferraristi have been indoctrinated with the idea that anything above 25k miles is 'high' mileage and a residual nightmare. So this scares buyers away from the higher mileage cars. The thing is that the FF is so damned good that it gets driven way more than its weekend toy mid-engine V8 bretheren.

As 21ATS says, these cars need to be driven regularly to be at their best and most reliable. So use this mileage fixation to your advantage when shopping for one.

jason61c

5,430 posts

158 months

MDL111

6,535 posts

161 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
ANOpax said:
21ATS said:
Be realistic is all I'm saying. You may very well buy an FF and get out again with only a 10% loss and running costs of £3K a year.
It's also possible that Jason61 may never come to sell it.
The pool of available cars has shrunk as some get crashed but the majority are finding 'permanent' homes. Look at MDL111 - 85k km on his and the love affair is still going strong. My wife has told me that if we ever fall on hard times, the last car to go will be the FF.

Harris nailed it in his FF review when he said that it's a special place to be at any speed - even when stuck on the M4 in lashing rain on a Friday night...
I took mine out of main dealer servicing for the first time this year, which is basically an implied acceptance that it will never be sold .... I genuinely believe the FF and the CLR will be with me forever and they will cost what they cost to run. As others have said, regardless of budget I don't know what I would replace it with - esp. now that it seems Ferrari will never build a replacement for it

Kettmark

810 posts

137 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
Those looking to sell should touch base with those contemplating buying to prevent the huge dealer spreads. I'm sure the cars would move on more rapidly then.

Kettmark

810 posts

137 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all

Kettmark

810 posts

137 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
jason61c said:
Nice but no pano roof & not much saving from retail?

jason61c

5,430 posts

158 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
Kettmark said:
Nice but no pano roof & not much saving from retail?
I'm in the camp of not being bothered about pan roof, it'll cost me les on the way in, worth less on the way out!?

Closest retail I can find is £110k? Given its under full warranty for 6 months also.

ANOpax

670 posts

150 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
jason61c said:
Nice spec. Tons of interior carbon which really lifts the cabin. The semi-aniline leather is lovely (I have it too) and it ages with a beautiful patina which you can see is starting to come through in some of the photos.

If you care; front camera, hi power hifi and suspension lift are missing from an otherwise comprehensive spec.

jason61c

5,430 posts

158 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
ANOpax said:
Nice spec. Tons of interior carbon which really lifts the cabin. The semi-aniline leather is lovely (I have it too) and it ages with a beautiful patina which you can see is starting to come through in some of the photos.

If you care; front camera, hi power hifi and suspension lift are missing from an otherwise comprehensive spec.
the interior colour combo is my favourite for these. I'd prefer the exterior to be in blue or a green with it, however this works really well. The seats do seem to get better with age.

Its got the furlonger upgraded PTU also.

Pricing these seems to be a nightmare.

21ATS

963 posts

56 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
ANOpax said:
jason61c said:
Nice spec. Tons of interior carbon which really lifts the cabin. The semi-aniline leather is lovely (I have it too) and it ages with a beautiful patina which you can see is starting to come through in some of the photos.

If you care; front camera, hi power hifi and suspension lift are missing from an otherwise comprehensive spec.
On the above list I don't have front camera but it would help, the bonnet of these cars is very long and you sit a lot further back in this car than anything else I've ever driven. High Power Hifi adds a sub a better amp and speakers. Nice to have but not a deal breaker.

I do have suspension lifter and I do use it. It lifts all four corners not just the front. It's not an absolute must have but it's a strong recommendation.

21ATS

963 posts

56 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
Similar spec one on Collecting cars currently which will give you an idea of the market appetite for one of these as a "private sale" albeit seemingly listed by a trader.

Three rules about buying an FF.

1. Get it inspected.
2. See rule one
3. Did I mention getting it inspected?

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2012-ferrari-f...

jason61c

5,430 posts

158 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
21ATS said:
Similar spec one on Collecting cars currently which will give you an idea of the market appetite for one of these as a "private sale" albeit seemingly listed by a trader.

Three rules about buying an FF.

1. Get it inspected.
2. See rule one
3. Did I mention getting it inspected?

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2012-ferrari-f...
yeah, the auto trader one is under Ferrari 2 year approved used warranty also. so a good bit of piece of mind.

jason61c

5,430 posts

158 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
21ATS said:
Similar spec one on Collecting cars currently which will give you an idea of the market appetite for one of these as a "private sale" albeit seemingly listed by a trader.

Three rules about buying an FF.

1. Get it inspected.
2. See rule one
3. Did I mention getting it inspected?

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2012-ferrari-f...
collecting cars

"The Grigio Silverstone paintwork is described by the seller as being in good condition, though they note that there is a minor scratch and some stone chips on the front bumper. There are also small areas of lacquer peel on the front bumper, a small area of damage on the front grille, a crack on the front number plate, a light scuff on the rear diffuser, very slight delamination around the windscreen, a scuff on the nearside front wheel arch, a touched-in blemish on the nearside front wing just behind the wheel arch, two scuffs on the lower passenger door, and heavy stone chipping on the nearside rear sill into the wheel arch"

that's a lot of work to sort all that out!?

then add:

"Stepping inside, the cabin is presented in good shape. There is slight wear and sticky residue on the centre console ‘R’ button, minor blemishes on the transmission tunnel storage compartment lid, deterioration on some of the climate control switches, with scratches and slightly sticky residue on the surrounding trim, and creasing on the seats, with very slight signs of wear on the driver’s upper seat bolster"

Looks like a trader is using Collecting cars to punt out a slightly rough car?

21ATS

963 posts

56 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
jason61c said:
If it feels like the right one for you and the money is where you want to be, go for it.

Double check which warranty it has. Once these are 8 years old the coverage available changes from bumper to bumper to Power15.

The warranties aren't all the same.

I bought one with a warranty though for piece of mind and then extended it for the first year. I'll decide when that's up if I want to renew it or self insure.

jason61c

5,430 posts

158 months

Sunday 6th November
quotequote all
21ATS said:
jason61c said:
If it feels like the right one for you and the money is where you want to be, go for it.

Double check which warranty it has. Once these are 8 years old the coverage available changes from bumper to bumper to Power15.

The warranties aren't all the same.

I bought one with a warranty though for piece of mind and then extended it for the first year. I'll decide when that's up if I want to renew it or self insure.
I think its a little bit toppy as a private sale. its got the warranty that you get when you get a 2 year approved used, I need to see what its actually got, thats a good point.