F12 Berlinetta

Author
Discussion

ANOpax

607 posts

146 months

Monday 13th June
quotequote all
MisterBigglesworth said:
A good friend brought me back to Earth with a bang today.

‘You guys complain that you don’t want a car because it has the wrong wheels or stitching colour, the rest of us would just like a Ferrari - any Ferrari.’
Thank you for passing on your friend’s observation. It’s a good reality check when I worry about the fact that we’ve just dealt on a low spec F12. In the grand scheme of things, the lack of options doesn’t really matter as it’s still a bloody F12!!

Congratulations on your purchase. It looks amazing and I’m sure that you’ll be very happy with it.

DeejRC

3,943 posts

62 months

Monday 13th June
quotequote all
As I repeated often enough and as Cake has taken up on his 599 thread…it’s just another donkey.
Besides, it could be worse…it could be an R8 hehe

mako111

57 posts

192 months

Wednesday 15th June
quotequote all
Beautiful looking car, congratulations.

MisterBigglesworth said:
Totally agree.

Having discussed it with Harry I twigged that given it was a 2013 car it likely went to one of Ferrari’s best customers so the options choice was clearly to create a deliberately understated car rather than to save money, anyone who spent that kind of money on paint and the external carbon bits but elected not to option the cheaper parts clearly had a specific design in mind and I think it works.

Here is the video of the car when it was at JCT600 - you can see my spider cheekily sat in the corner. The video really shows off the paints 3 dimensional quality, and given it was the launch colour for Geneva I think it’s always going Tomane the car feel special.

DL have restored the wheels to original factory grey, which i’m happy about and removed the naughty 70 Anni badges which i’m also happy about as it’s not a 70 Anni car and I don’t want to upset the FoC with a wrongly badged car smile

When you look at the standard of prep on them you realise why buying a franchise car is worth the money.

https://youtu.be/1nTp7ueVQ1A

J-P

Original Poster:

4,158 posts

186 months

Wednesday 15th June
quotequote all
MisterBigglesworth said:
Thanks for all the positive support guys, I know I made the right decision.

A good friend brought me back to Earth with a bang today.

‘You guys complain that you don’t want a car because it has the wrong wheels or stitching colour, the rest of us would just like a Ferrari - any Ferrari.’

Easy to become cynical and forget how lucky we are to be the privileged few who got to own even one of these cars let alone two of the greatest, when we are spending the sort of money that represents someone’s lifetimes of struggle just to buy a house of that value.

I stopped at a McDonalds car park to put the roof up as it was starting to rain, as soon as I pulled in a little girl immediately stopped and pointed and yelled ‘it’s a Ferraaaaaari!’ And was treated to the theatre of the roof going up before it departed.

Priceless moment that transported me to being 5 years old again doing the same thing.

For all our complaints to normal folk these are all incredibly exotic machines and we are lucky beyond measure to have them.
To be honest buddy, it's fine if you're spending around £200k on anything (other than a flat or house) to get EXACTLY what you want and to ask other like-minded individuals about it. But yes, anybody getting the car of their dreams is very lucky.

MisterBigglesworth

214 posts

28 months

Wednesday 29th June
quotequote all
Well a quick update on my F12 buying shenanigans.

Finance deal has been dragged out with a lot of back and forth, which is part;y down to lenders being more risk adverse in the market and party personal circumstances of just having a big house move and lot of contract changeovers making my current financials a lot more volatile than usual, we finally got an offer in from my current funder with the proviso I settle off my 458 balance, doing that and keeping it wasn’t an option as i’m already in the hook for a huge dividend and PAYE tax bill this year to cover my house move so realistically can’t pull another dividend until April without getting bent over on tax, and with bitcoin being at the bottom of a bear market I don’t want to cash out and crystallise losses there.

Harry managed to get me a strong bid on my 458 Spider, which makes a lot of sense to take as I won’t have time to drive it and the F12 this year and it would free up a lot of cash to reduce my tax bill. So sadly the 458 will be going as part of the deal, which
I’m kind of okay with as much as I love the tailor made grigio ferro I had my heart set on a Rosso Spider.

So I’m settling the 458 and putting the money into the F12 which will cut the final, monthly and interest down and put me in a good position to settle it in the next tax year, when i’ll be able to put a chunky amount towards a replacement spider in Rosso when one comes available.

Should imagine we have done enough to get the deal over the line now as current lender will only be effectively relending the same on the F12 but with a higher equity chunk my side.

Just need to wait for the paperwork and collection date now really.

Sad to see my 458 go, but it’s a good business decision and makes the financials work and i’ll get the fun of buying a 458 Spider all over again, but will at least have more time to enjoy the F12 without being distracted by her topless Italian sister hehe

Could have avoided the whole saga and kept my 458 by being patient to next year, but the lure of the V12 has overwhelmed and it was a lot harder finding the right F12 than the 458, which i’m less fussy about and as lovely as my 458 is it wasn’t exactly what I wanted but wouldn’t have sold just to buy a red one, so having my hand forced a bit was probably a good thing.

Will likely grab a 430 spider or R8 V10 spider for cash as a interim topless toy, but leaning into just paring my work right back for rest of year and taking the F12 on some road trips, which is probably a better outcome than having 2 Ferrari’s and no time to drive them due to work commitments.


ANOpax

607 posts

146 months

Wednesday 29th June
quotequote all
MisterBigglesworth said:
leaning into just paring my work right back for rest of year and taking the F12 on some road trips, which is probably a better outcome than having 2 Ferrari’s and no time to drive them due to work commitments.
This ^^^

The F12 was made for road trips and who knows when we'll be;
a) locked up again
b) nuked
c) penniless

Nobody ever lay on their death bed and said 'I wish I'd driven the Ferrari less.'
Less work and more play, especially as you've made the decision to chop in the 458 to free things up.
beer

DeejRC

3,943 posts

62 months

Wednesday 29th June
quotequote all
bks. Why didn’t I think of the paring work right back and taking the Ferrari on more road trips instead? And it would have reduced my tax bill !

There is a reason I’m just an engineer and not one of the London city boys frown

anonymous-user

34 months

Wednesday 29th June
quotequote all
ANOpax said:
This ^^^

The F12 was made for road trips and who knows when we'll be;
a) locked up again
b) nuked
c) penniless

Nobody ever lay on their death bed and said 'I wish I'd driven the Ferrari less.'
Less work and more play, especially as you've made the decision to chop in the 458 to free things up.
beer
With petrol prices and a F12 i wager option c won't take too long

MisterBigglesworth

214 posts

28 months

Thursday 30th June
quotequote all
92 litres @ 2.00 per litre = 184 GBP a tank

20 gallons at 4mpg - 80 miles @ 160 mph

£368 per hour / c. £2.28 per mile.

Round trip to Munich is about 600 miles each way via hook of Holland ferry so 1200 miles - about 2500 quid.

Works out about the same or less as 2 business class flights

Throw in another 2.5k for a Airbnb for a couple of weeks and you'll still have spent less than most people do on a cruise.

Amuses me when people think running a Ferrari is ruinous then spend 10 grand to rent a prison cell sized cabin on a floating butlins for 2 weeks.

You think a F12 is thirsty you want to see the fuel bill on a sunseeker predator to do 32 knots. Costs more in fuel to do Monaco to Amalfi coast than buying a used Ferrari Calfironia and driving it off a cliff when you arrive.





Guyr

2,026 posts

262 months

Thursday 30th June
quotequote all
MisterBigglesworth said:
Amuses me when people think running a Ferrari is ruinous then spend 10 grand to rent a prison cell sized cabin on a floating butlins for 2 weeks.
Best quote ever smile

Bo_apex

1,732 posts

198 months

Thursday 30th June
quotequote all
MisterBigglesworth said:
You think a F12 is thirsty you want to see the fuel bill on a sunseeker predator to do 32 knots. Costs more in fuel to do Monaco to Amalfi coast than buying a used Ferrari Calfironia and driving it off a cliff when you arrive.
Is Thunberg aware ?

biggrin


MisterBigglesworth

214 posts

28 months

Thursday 30th June
quotequote all
Bo_apex said:
MisterBigglesworth said:
You think a F12 is thirsty you want to see the fuel bill on a sunseeker predator to do 32 knots. Costs more in fuel to do Monaco to Amalfi coast than buying a used Ferrari Calfironia and driving it off a cliff when you arrive.
Is Thunberg aware ?

biggrin
I guess she isn’t a frequent attendee of the Monaco boat show orvher little head would explode with rage, hehe

DeejRC

3,943 posts

62 months

Thursday 30th June
quotequote all
I love Greta. Everytime I think of her, my right foot flexes just that little bit extra…

J-P

Original Poster:

4,158 posts

186 months

Friday 1st July
quotequote all
MisterBigglesworth said:
92 litres @ 2.00 per litre = 184 GBP a tank

20 gallons at 4mpg - 80 miles @ 160 mph

£368 per hour / c. £2.28 per mile.

Round trip to Munich is about 600 miles each way via hook of Holland ferry so 1200 miles - about 2500 quid.

Works out about the same or less as 2 business class flights

Throw in another 2.5k for a Airbnb for a couple of weeks and you'll still have spent less than most people do on a cruise.

Amuses me when people think running a Ferrari is ruinous then spend 10 grand to rent a prison cell sized cabin on a floating butlins for 2 weeks.

You think a F12 is thirsty you want to see the fuel bill on a sunseeker predator to do 32 knots. Costs more in fuel to do Monaco to Amalfi coast than buying a used Ferrari Calfironia and driving it off a cliff when you arrive.
Haha - this is brilliant!

J-P

Original Poster:

4,158 posts

186 months

Friday 1st July
quotequote all
MisterBigglesworth said:
Well a quick update on my F12 buying shenanigans.

Finance deal has been dragged out with a lot of back and forth, which is part;y down to lenders being more risk adverse in the market and party personal circumstances of just having a big house move and lot of contract changeovers making my current financials a lot more volatile than usual, we finally got an offer in from my current funder with the proviso I settle off my 458 balance, doing that and keeping it wasn’t an option as i’m already in the hook for a huge dividend and PAYE tax bill this year to cover my house move so realistically can’t pull another dividend until April without getting bent over on tax, and with bitcoin being at the bottom of a bear market I don’t want to cash out and crystallise losses there.

Harry managed to get me a strong bid on my 458 Spider, which makes a lot of sense to take as I won’t have time to drive it and the F12 this year and it would free up a lot of cash to reduce my tax bill. So sadly the 458 will be going as part of the deal, which
I’m kind of okay with as much as I love the tailor made grigio ferro I had my heart set on a Rosso Spider.

So I’m settling the 458 and putting the money into the F12 which will cut the final, monthly and interest down and put me in a good position to settle it in the next tax year, when i’ll be able to put a chunky amount towards a replacement spider in Rosso when one comes available.

Should imagine we have done enough to get the deal over the line now as current lender will only be effectively relending the same on the F12 but with a higher equity chunk my side.

Just need to wait for the paperwork and collection date now really.

Sad to see my 458 go, but it’s a good business decision and makes the financials work and i’ll get the fun of buying a 458 Spider all over again, but will at least have more time to enjoy the F12 without being distracted by her topless Italian sister hehe

Could have avoided the whole saga and kept my 458 by being patient to next year, but the lure of the V12 has overwhelmed and it was a lot harder finding the right F12 than the 458, which i’m less fussy about and as lovely as my 458 is it wasn’t exactly what I wanted but wouldn’t have sold just to buy a red one, so having my hand forced a bit was probably a good thing.

Will likely grab a 430 spider or R8 V10 spider for cash as a interim topless toy, but leaning into just paring my work right back for rest of year and taking the F12 on some road trips, which is probably a better outcome than having 2 Ferrari’s and no time to drive them due to work commitments.
Great progress - when do you pick her up?

MisterBigglesworth

214 posts

28 months

Friday 1st July
quotequote all
J-P said:
Great progress - when do you pick her up?
Well, the incompetent broker seems to be determined to make a mess of this deal regardless.

So based on the above this should have been a slam dunk, we were already up to a 30 percent deposit and could go to 40 percent to effectively keep the lend the same as the 458 but with more equity on my side - 100k lend on a F12 is literal market crash territory before the lender is under any negative risk.

So the broker (who I have never even spoken to vs the lengthy personal management Mike took to understand my needs and package a proposal with all supporting docs that was underwritten in 24 hours) requested wage slips - like anyone who works at this level gets those. So I submitted my agency remittance advices and advice notes showing my consultancy fee payments - clearly marked with both my company name and my name as the contracted consultant, they already had 6 months personal & business bank statements to show flow of funds from the agent cua my company to me. More than plenty to satisfy affordability and AML regs. And the same package of proofs that were provided in the last deal and caused no issues.

30 mins later I get the same request. Send more.
30 mins later text message saying they wanted wage slips, this is now nearly 5pm and i’m Losing my rag at this point. I clearly explained on my application I am a Consultant engaged via my limited company, and get paid my day rate which I then draw a directors loan from my company to c0ver expenses and settle with dividends at the end of every accounting year. Nothing elaborate, same structure as almost every consultant with multiple clients, sports people, BBC presenters et al. The sort of people specialist asset funders deal with on a daily basis and understand don’t get a wage slip off Tesco’s at the end of the month.

At this point i’m now fuming, instead of packaging up a proper proposal and submitting it, the broker has done things piecemeal so we’ve ended up in a week’s long ping pong of moving goal posts, to make matters worse they also propped it to some second tier lender who I have no intention of doing business with and given no transparency as to which lender we are dealing with as if i’m happy to trust my 175k asset funding to any old outfit they see fit.

If I had put this through Mike at Charles and Dean he;d have got all the paperwork right first time and this whole deal would likely have been done in days and he’s would have actually had the courtesy to ask me and advise me which funder to go with that was appropriate, and what levers we needed to pull in terms of deal structure to get a solid underwrite.

Moral of the story - choose your own broker and work with someone you trust to look after your interests and not just tuck you up with anyone that will give them a commission and sakes target.

Waiting to speak to Harry at DL. I have no confidence in Evolution Funding as a broker. I absolutely do not want them making a mess on my credit history which I have to guard working in the financial services sector, and they are completely lacking in the level of customer service needed at this level of bespoke underwriting.

Unless Harry and Sam can put pressure to have Evo put a senior broker on this and avoids making a mess of my existing Aldermore relationship I’m pulling out of this deal, will settle my 458 and keep it then go in with a bigger deposit using Mike at C&D or direct with JBR on another car in the spring.

The only reason I am still even willing to expend time trying to resolve this mess that Evo created is that it’s not Harry’s or DL’s doing and I would like to preserve that relationship and get a deal done, but i’m absolutely not going to tolerate being tucked up like a kipper by a broker that seems out of their depth in writing business in the HNW space.

Affordability isn’t even the issue here, it’s purely down to getting the right paperwork in front of the underwriter so they understand the position and can make a proper risk decision - with the amount of deposit, the type of asset and the monthly being a very minor (like new M3) commitment vs my earnings this should not be as difficult as they are making it.

Will keep you posted. Not looking good at the moment which is utterly frustrating since I they had done their job on my earnings to liabilities / assets ratio they should have been able to get the deal through in parallel.

I’m only paying £497 a month for my 458, with no other borrowings, so another grand on top is still less than 10 percent of my disposable income on a single contract with a clear path to settle both deals in full and large equity in each vehicle.

Frustrating to say the least.




MisterBigglesworth

214 posts

28 months

Friday 1st July
quotequote all
Sorry for the typos, was up to 3am having to catch up on work to pay for this fiasco and bleary eyed Friday kicking in hehe


anonymous-user

34 months

Friday 1st July
quotequote all
Sounds like underwriting is toughening up which could slow supercar sales and cool prices.
Q4 could be a good time to be sitting on some cash to bag a bargain

jwdh1

200 posts

89 months

Friday 1st July
quotequote all
Curledge said:
Sounds like underwriting is toughening up which could slow supercar sales and cool prices.
Q4 could be a good time to be sitting on some cash to bag a bargain
strange, I read the story as an episode of "underwriter doesn't understand the basics of a consultant paying themselves through a ltd company structure" rather than anything to do with markets.

You've been sat on that bag of cash for a while now Curledge, surprised you haven't got piles.


anonymous-user

34 months

Friday 1st July
quotequote all
jwdh1 said:
strange, I read the story as an episode of "underwriter doesn't understand the basics of a consultant paying themselves through a ltd company structure" rather than anything to do with markets.

You've been sat on that bag of cash for a while now Curledge, surprised you haven't got piles.
laughlaughlaugh