308/328 Values

308/328 Values

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Slippydiff

12,040 posts

186 months

Tuesday 7th April 2020
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cgt2 said:
I fitted Toyo Proxes. It handled beautifully on them.

BTW your date codes suggest 2008.

You won't believe the difference new tyres will make, upgrade to 16's or not but I would do it. The car will be transformed and you will enjoy it much more. Similarly mine was on very old tyres when I bought it.
That sounds about what you’d expect to find with a garage queen that’s been polished, detailed, serviced and MOT’d every year, but hardly driven, and certainly not driven in anger.

The TRX’s are expensive and hopeless. As others have said, find a set of 16” QV wheels and stick some nice fresh modern rubber on it. The Superformance wheels look the part and aren’t expensive, but some in States have had balance/wheel wobble issues with them. The early items weren’t hubcentric, so you had to use a centering ring, I believe these caused a lot of the balance issues. Worthwhile checking to see if they’ve changed the design now.

Plenty of tyre choices if you dig deep. If you can get them, I’d go for a set of Bridgestone SO2’s (but only if they’ve recently been manufactured).

browngt3

1,142 posts

174 months

Tuesday 7th April 2020
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Superperformance certainly seem cheap at £895 for a set. What's the quality like at that price I wonder.

The 16 inch were optional extras back in the day and came with Pirelli P7s. Aware you don't like Pirelli on Porsches, Slippydiff. Guess you're similarly against them for the Ferrari?

FezSpider

755 posts

195 months

Tuesday 7th April 2020
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Jex said:
I didn't know they ever used a 328!
Yea that's true. I owned a 328 GTS so recognised the front slats in the opening sequence to the Beverley hills cop movie.
Here are a few frame freezes from the first 30 seconds of what they are passing of as the same car.






cgt2

1,699 posts

151 months

Tuesday 7th April 2020
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browngt3 said:
Superperformance certainly seem cheap at £895 for a set. What's the quality like at that price I wonder.

The 16 inch were optional extras back in the day and came with Pirelli P7s. Aware you don't like Pirelli on Porsches, Slippydiff. Guess you're similarly against them for the Ferrari?
I had the Superformance rims. After trying a few different tyres on various cars the Toyo's were IMO best suited to the balance of the 308.

jaisharma

531 posts

146 months

Tuesday 7th April 2020
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browngt3 said:
So, finally, I have my gorgeous, long awaited 308GTB QV. How long a wait? Probably more than 40 years! In fact ever since I first set eyes on a red 308 from the back seat of my Dad's BMW 2002tii. So why has it taken so long? One word really - Porsches. I actually nearly bought a QV some years back but bought a Carrera 3.2 instead, which I still have.

So, as a serial Porsche owner here are my impressions of the Ferrari.

I bought it from Rardley Motors back in January and I have to say Mike Wheeler was great, giving me all the time I wanted checking the car over. After reaching a deal we agreed the car would be serviced including cambelts and anything else that needed doing. They kept me informed via WhatsApp updates throughout the service which was certainly interesting as well as building confidence in the work actually being carried out.

Once the car was finished I planned to wait for a nice day and travel up from Cornwall to collect it. Looking forward to a memorable drive home my best laid plans didn't happen. As we all know, we had day after day of rain and then CV19 hit us. What to do? I decided to have the 308 delivered using the services of the excellent Indigo Blue. Though I was robbed of my drive home there's nothing quite like having a lorry turn up with your newly purchased Ferrari inside! After observing social distancing the QV was duly installed in my garage next to the Carrera. Just one year separating the birth of the two rivals.

So what are my impressions of my first Ferrari? In a word, Fantastic! The 308, to my eyes, is one of the most beautiful car designs ever. A true masterpiece by the great Leonardo Fioravanti, designer of so many Pininfarina icons. But she's not just a pretty face. To drive there is charm and charisma in spades. Compared to just about anything modern the 308 is just so engaging. Coming from 911s, steering feel is a big thing for me. Here, the Ferrari doesn't disappoint and I would say is probably as good as the old Carrera. Which is high praise indeed. You do need to spend some time warming up. In fact I love the theatre of starting up and the wait before we can get going. The main reason for this is the gearbox. It's very notchy and reluctant when cold with second gear failing to engage at all. However after a few miles the gear change is transformed into a beautifully tactile open-gated pleasure. Clutch action is smooth but not too light. Although a lot lighter than the earlier carb model I drove. Brakes, however are a little disappointing. Porsche have always been the bench mark and here the 308 must give best.

In the post above, Slippydiff mentions the performance of the respective variants. This is something which of course I was keen to find out without the limitations of a dealer test-drive. I'm pleased to say it came as a relief to find out the QV is just as quick as the Carrera. Oddly it doesn't FEEL as quick but this is down to the Porsche being more torquey and I guess having a narrower rev range. The Ferrari revs to 7700 which in the mid 1980's must have seemed stratospheric.

On a twisty road there is a lovely mid-engined fluidity to the handling. Add to that a very compliant ride, feelsome direct steering and the 308 is pure classic joy. The beauty of these classic junior league supercars is you don't need to be doing crazy licence losing speeds to enjoy them. You really do have to drive them. There's no ugly distracting TV screens on the dash. You're not insulated from the performance by sheer technology driven competence. Actually they are the perfect antidote to what has been lost with many modern performance cars.

So it's only been 2 weeks and we are very much in the getting to know you stage. This Corona thing really is not helping and I guess we all have bigger things concerning us now. However, I did manage to enjoy the weekend prior to lockdown. For now, the Ferrari is confined to the garage as the beautiful work if art she is, just to be looked at from time to time. As Car magazine observed back in the day - 'Doyen of exotic car shapes'!
Very nice write up. I also remember the Car article, with Cropley recounting the smoke curling up from his locked front wheels in the 308, attempting to follow the 328.

I think there is a surprising difference in feel/noise/refinement between 308 and 328 but the relative lack of mass (at least by modern standards) is a common factor.
I've tracked both (and race a 308 vetro occasionally). They are fun on the track but I find once they get more than a bit sideways they can be difficult to catch, but then again I'm not Villeneuve!
Another vote for the Toyo proxes, very grippy.
So far as the looks are concerned, someone once said "Pininfarina was the master".

Slippydiff

12,040 posts

186 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
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browngt3 said:
Superperformance certainly seem cheap at £895 for a set. What's the quality like at that price I wonder.

The 16 inch were optional extras back in the day and came with Pirelli P7s. Aware you don't like Pirelli on Porsches, Slippydiff. Guess you're similarly against them for the Ferrari?
Apologies for the lengthy post.

No, I'm not a massive fan of Pirellis generally, but the P7 Cinturatos do look to be available still. But the brief for the 308 is slightly different than for a car such as a 996 GT3. You're not looking for ultimate grip with the 308, rather you want something that whilst it's grippy both in the wet and dry, keeps the the steering light, and provides plenty of feedback and tactility whilst riding nicely and is reasonably quiet.

Many, many years ago I ran the P7, I thought they were a fine tyre (which back in their day, they were the best available) but when the were worn out, my local tyre supplier/fitter, suggested I try the Bridgestone SO2.

Back then Bridgestones weren't particularly well regarded, but they'd secured a deal with Porsche as an OE supplier, so I figured they must be doing something right ! They weren't particularly cheap either, but I took the advice and ordered a set.

When they were fitted to the car I could not believe the difference, not only were they waaaay grippier than the P7's, but they were almost silent in comparison, AND they came with the additional benefit that they rode beautifully. I ran them until they were pretty much down to the cords ...

I replaced them with the same, and had three years of fantastic motoring, alas when I came to replace them again, they'd been superseded by the SO2A, which a bit like SO3 that superseded the SO2A, turned out to be pretty hopeless.

It would seem tyre manufacturers go through purple patches, and Michelin's seem to last longer than most, the PS2 whilst very old and somewhat long in the tooth, was a superb tyre, and the Supersport was a quantum leap forward, likewise the PS4 S.

The Pirelli Rosso is available in the required 16" sizes for the 308, but the Rosso was the tyre that reinforced my bias against Pirrellis, some 15-20 years after I discovered the P7 was pretty hopeless when compared with the Bridgestone S02.

The Rossos turned out to noisy once they were past 50% worn, they were overly sensitive to the pressures they ran (the Michelins would tolerate a 5,6,7,8 psi discrepancy and the car would still drive well) whereas the Pirellis made the car handle poorly if the pressures were out by 2-3psi.

The Rossos became boderline dangerous in the wet once they were 50% worn and they flat spotted if the car was left for more than 4-5 days after a spirited run, meaning the next 20-30 miles felt like you were driving on 50 pence pieces.

Subaru/Prodrive had to replace numerous sets of Rossos on the Impreza P1 due to issues with them. Then low and behold it it transpired that they had to do the same with the P Zeros fitted as OE to the 981 Boxsters and Caymans ...

On the flipside, I've never had an issue with ANY of the Michelin tyres I had on all my cars.

There seem to be several options available in the correct sizes, the Toyo Proxes, Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, Pirelli Rossos, Bridgestone S02

https://www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/bridgestone...

https://www.blackcircles.com/catalogue/bridgestone...

Superperformance wheel balance info here in post 8

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/308-gt4-...

and post 2 here :

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/308-wobb...

and post 12 here ...

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/4-superf...

Clearly fitment of the centering rings is key, and as long as they're supplied and fitted, there doesn't seem to be an issue.







Taffy66

4,325 posts

65 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
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Another incredibly helpful and concise post from Slippy..Based on this info i'd get the Bridgestone Potenza SO2s from Black circle..Correct tyres make or break any high performance car..I fitted a full set of Michelin MP4Ss K1s to my 458 last summer and they transformed the dynamics of the car especially in the wet..
We must meet up somewhere Tony when this lockdown is over to see my 458 sat next to your new 308QV..
Ferraris have an unique special feel about them which no other car maker can compete with IMO.

ras62

1,044 posts

119 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
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browngt3 said:
ras62 said:
Enjoyed reading that Tony, sounds like you will have a lot of happy miles in her. Talking to my Ferrari knowledge he suggests your car will have the metric rims with having the TRX tyres. They are not always easy to get and expensive, probably £400 a corner to replace. He said buying the 16 reps from someone like superformance and using more modern 16 inch tyres is a cheaper and better option. The later QV cars came on 16 wheels so still looks standard. Rob
Thanks Rob. Trust you're keeping well in these strange times. How's the 964? I'm considering a new set of 16 inch rims because, as you say, £400 a tyre is a bit excessive.
Strange times indeed. I'm fine thanks, 964 is looking pretty sorry for itself atm, sitting without glass, wings, doors, bonnet, engine lid etc while it gets prepped for paint. How many parts on these old cars!! Thankfully very little rust to be dealt with but still enough to confirm this was the right moment to tackle the job. Hopefully back chasing GT3's before not too long wink

johnnyreggae

2,563 posts

123 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
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cgt2 said:
the Toyo's were IMO best suited to the balance of the 308.
A friend was very happy with Toyo T1R on his too after several years with the Porsche Boxster spec Bridgestone (not standard S02)

browngt3

1,142 posts

174 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
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@Slippydiff. Thanks again for a very helpful and informative post. I have the SO2s on my Carrera and am very happy with them. Back in the 80s the P7 was THE tyre - funny how things change. I'm OK with the Rossos on my 993 but will more than likely change to the Bridgestones next time. So for the 308 looks like a toss up between Toyos and Bridgestones. Thanks also for the links.

browngt3

1,142 posts

174 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
Another incredibly helpful and concise post from Slippy..Based on this info i'd get the Bridgestone Potenza SO2s from Black circle..Correct tyres make or break any high performance car..I fitted a full set of Michelin MP4Ss K1s to my 458 last summer and they transformed the dynamics of the car especially in the wet..
We must meet up somewhere Tony when this lockdown is over to see my 458 sat next to your new 308QV..
Ferraris have an unique special feel about them which no other car maker can compete with IMO.
Hi John, yes let's meet up. Maybe we can get all the Rhug gang together..

Andy 308GTB

2,285 posts

184 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
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I switched from TRX's to Superformance 16" rims last year.

The main criticism of the Superformance rims is that whilst they are 7" at the front and 8" at the rear, the pattern is identical - i.e. the rear wheel isn't deeper if you get what I mean, the offset is the same between the front and back. The original rear wheels were more deeply 'dished' than the front.
Switching from TRX rims it makes no difference as they were the same wheels all round.

My Superformance wheels came with the wheel centering rings, hub covers and transfers (which I couldn't be bothered to apply...)
I put Kumho's on my car. I'm not some potential F1 star and they do the job for me.

I didn't want the phaff of trying to sell the old TRX rims with the tyres on. I get the impression that people sometimes don't understand what they are buying and I didn't want to get involved in that. I also didn't want to risk someone driving around on past their sell by date tyres. So I let the guy in the tyre place have them for the scrap value (£50). He's now had them up on Ebay for a few months for £1350...

browngt3

1,142 posts

174 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
quotequote all
ras62 said:
Strange times indeed. I'm fine thanks, 964 is looking pretty sorry for itself atm, sitting without glass, wings, doors, bonnet, engine lid etc while it gets prepped for paint. How many parts on these old cars!! Thankfully very little rust to be dealt with but still enough to confirm this was the right moment to tackle the job. Hopefully back chasing GT3's before not too long wink
Will be beautiful when finished. Guess they're not working atm so you could be waiting a bit unfortunately

browngt3

1,142 posts

174 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
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@Andy308GTB. I'm guessing you mean the optional 16'' oem Ferrari items. Deeper dishing as in this picture

Andy 308GTB

2,285 posts

184 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
quotequote all
browngt3 said:
@Andy308GTB. I'm guessing you mean the optional 16'' oem Ferrari items. Deeper dishing as in this picture
Yes they're the ones.
But a set of 16" OEM wheels are probably twice the price of the Superformance ones!

jaisharma

531 posts

146 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
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Andy 308GTB said:
browngt3 said:
@Andy308GTB. I'm guessing you mean the optional 16'' oem Ferrari items. Deeper dishing as in this picture
Yes they're the ones.
But a set of 16" OEM wheels are probably twice the price of the Superformance ones!
Yes the original 16 inch rims are very expensive now.
I've tried the S02s in the past on my 328 and they were very good. I currently have Michelin and they are excellent. By which I mean they are excellent on the road. At the moment it doesn't make any difference......

4rephill

4,620 posts

141 months

Wednesday 8th April 2020
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FezSpider said:
Jex said:
I didn't know they ever used a 328!
Yea that's true. I owned a 328 GTS so recognised the front slats in the opening sequence to the Beverley hills cop movie.
Here are a few frame freezes from the first 30 seconds of what they are passing of as the same car.





They actually used two 308 GTS' for "stunt" cars - A carburettor model, and an injection model (they have different, single driver's side only door mirrors), and a 328 GTS that was the "main" car (which had American spec "elephant ear" door mirrors on both doors):

The 328 GTS "main" car:



The 308 GTSi (Single square mirror) :



The 308 GTS "carb" (Single oval mirror) :



Beverly Hills Cop 2 came out in 1987, and at the time, the 308 GTS was worth 1/2 to 2/3rds the value of the 328 GTS, so it made more sense to use those for the performance driving sequences - "Just in case".

In addition, the 328 GTS was in high demand in 1987, and my understanding is, the company who supplied the 328 GTS, specifically stated that the car was not to be used for any high speed filming.

99.999% of people watching the film at the cinema would never have spotted the different models when the film came out, and I'd say at least 95% of those watching on video/DVD later on wouldn't either.



classicaholic

896 posts

33 months

Thursday 9th April 2020
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Never seen the film but I will see if its on Netflix and see if I notice, what other films have a 308 or 328 in them?

cgt2

1,699 posts

151 months

Thursday 9th April 2020
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classicaholic said:
Never seen the film but I will see if its on Netflix and see if I notice, what other films have a 308 or 328 in them?
Crockett had a black 328 in Miami Vice in those episodes where he became a bad guy.

browngt3

1,142 posts

174 months

Thursday 9th April 2020
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classicaholic said:
Never seen the film but I will see if its on Netflix and see if I notice, what other films have a 308 or 328 in them?
Cannonball Run! Driven by the priests if I recall correctly biggrin

Actually, they featured in quite a lot of films and TV in period. Along with red 911s!

Of course the 308 GTS is most famous for its starring role in the Magnum TV series