Huracan Man Maths
Discussion
First off, thank you for taking the time to read this.
My dream car is a Huracan. I sold my beautiful California in the beginning of the year and stepped into a Cayman GT4 2015 in pristine condition. (Not club pack, but lots of carbon and well cared for).
It is a great car and I simply can’t fault it. I am surprised by the attention it gets and it has been reliable and inexpensive to own so far, (unlike the California…).
Yet. It’s just not a supercar and I feel neither the pre-drive excitement nor joy of ownership. Does this make me a bad person? Is something broken inside?
So.. Back to the Huracan.
I’ll get £55k for the GT4 in trade and would look to buy a 2015-2017 Huracan with circa 20k miles around £120k. I also have a bonus coming in of £20k (after tax) in January.
I don’t want to lose too much money and I don’t want to feel like I am funding a car as I’ve always bought the “fun car” outright. So my contemplation was:
Deposit £50k. The spare £5k from the trade-in will cover a 3 year warranty and insurance year 1.
(Warranty £3k, Insurance £1,500 from initial checks.)
If I have a separate bank account with say £30k (bonus plus a bit of savings) and use that as the direct debit on the loan then that would cover 20 months of payments, whilst avoiding any financial pressure on something that is supposed to be fun.
I assume that after 24 months, I’ll have not actually reduced the loan by much and I also assume a £120k Huracan will be worth £100k to trade-in, in around 2 years. My assumption is that I’ll sell it and have £30k left to put towards something else. Does this sound right?
Question 1: How much is it actually going to cost me to own the car for the 2 years ignoring running costs?
Question 2: Is this nuts and I should just wait until I have more cash for a bigger deposit and lower monthly?
Question 3: Should I just invest in counselling and learn to appreciate the GT4?
Any thoughts or unsolicited advice is welcome. Likewise, no idea what the market will look like in 24 months but Huracans seem fairly stable around that price point.
I look forward to being slapped back into normality or egged-on to make this happen and probably end up divorced and bankrupt.
My dream car is a Huracan. I sold my beautiful California in the beginning of the year and stepped into a Cayman GT4 2015 in pristine condition. (Not club pack, but lots of carbon and well cared for).
It is a great car and I simply can’t fault it. I am surprised by the attention it gets and it has been reliable and inexpensive to own so far, (unlike the California…).
Yet. It’s just not a supercar and I feel neither the pre-drive excitement nor joy of ownership. Does this make me a bad person? Is something broken inside?
So.. Back to the Huracan.
I’ll get £55k for the GT4 in trade and would look to buy a 2015-2017 Huracan with circa 20k miles around £120k. I also have a bonus coming in of £20k (after tax) in January.
I don’t want to lose too much money and I don’t want to feel like I am funding a car as I’ve always bought the “fun car” outright. So my contemplation was:
Deposit £50k. The spare £5k from the trade-in will cover a 3 year warranty and insurance year 1.
(Warranty £3k, Insurance £1,500 from initial checks.)
If I have a separate bank account with say £30k (bonus plus a bit of savings) and use that as the direct debit on the loan then that would cover 20 months of payments, whilst avoiding any financial pressure on something that is supposed to be fun.
I assume that after 24 months, I’ll have not actually reduced the loan by much and I also assume a £120k Huracan will be worth £100k to trade-in, in around 2 years. My assumption is that I’ll sell it and have £30k left to put towards something else. Does this sound right?
Question 1: How much is it actually going to cost me to own the car for the 2 years ignoring running costs?
Question 2: Is this nuts and I should just wait until I have more cash for a bigger deposit and lower monthly?
Question 3: Should I just invest in counselling and learn to appreciate the GT4?
Any thoughts or unsolicited advice is welcome. Likewise, no idea what the market will look like in 24 months but Huracans seem fairly stable around that price point.
I look forward to being slapped back into normality or egged-on to make this happen and probably end up divorced and bankrupt.
I'm not sure you should really ignore running costs in your calculation.
I was tempted by a Hurracan having never owned a Lamborghini. The reason I didn't choose one is because I wanted a convertible and wasn't really willing to compromise on a soft / fabric roof. But I was aware that servicing on Lamborghini's tends to be about double what it costs on Ferrari / McLaren etc
I was tempted by a Hurracan having never owned a Lamborghini. The reason I didn't choose one is because I wanted a convertible and wasn't really willing to compromise on a soft / fabric roof. But I was aware that servicing on Lamborghini's tends to be about double what it costs on Ferrari / McLaren etc
I do love the Huracan, they look and sound brilliant and at that price make a lot of sense.
Someone will be along with a more complete response I’m sure but I think your trade in after 24 months is very optimistic (I imagine a dealer won’t pay you much more than £100k for the car the day after you’d bought it for £120k). I’d also question the value of a £1k per year warranty on a car like this (ie I doubt there is any).
Someone will be along with a more complete response I’m sure but I think your trade in after 24 months is very optimistic (I imagine a dealer won’t pay you much more than £100k for the car the day after you’d bought it for £120k). I’d also question the value of a £1k per year warranty on a car like this (ie I doubt there is any).
Only you can decide how much you want to spend each month on a toy or how you should fund it.
Your maths don't seem far off, not sure if you'd get more for the Cayman selling privately? I don't know what sort of a warranty you get for £1kpa, it sounds suspiciously cheap. You'd probably pay a bit off the loan in 2 years, and who knows where Huracan prices will go but trade in £20k less than retail is probably not a bad guess [edit] assuming prices stay static]
Do Huracan prices dip substantially in winter like similar cars, so you might lose £5k selling the Cayman but get £10k off a Lambo?
I have never borrowed to buy anything except my home, but I grew up in an era when debt was bad and interest rates were in double figures. So for me the answer would be to sell the GT4 in Spring, run around in a cheap fun car (ST Ford, Elise, S3 Audi) and save more for a purchase later next year.
Using up savings to pay installments off a loan on a toy would not be on my radar, it also makes no financial sense. Depending on your earnings, you'll either get £500 or nowt Personal Savings Allowance. The £30k you stash away to pay the loan instalments will be earning 4% so will get you between £660 (for a 45% taxpayer) to £1020 a year in your pocket. The same £30k on a loan at 8%(?) will cost you £2400pa. With that sort of difference you'd possibly be better off remortgaging to buy the car as the fees would be covered in year 1 and the interest rate would be lower. Of course the divorce costs when your wife found out might impact this assessment
Looking at your maths...Your figures basically leaves you in 2 years with a barely reduced £70k loan against a car worth £100k, So your current £85k (GT4 plus bonus plus savings) becomes £40k on your plan. Only you can decide whether it is worth knocking on for 2 grand a month to own a Huracan.
Your maths don't seem far off, not sure if you'd get more for the Cayman selling privately? I don't know what sort of a warranty you get for £1kpa, it sounds suspiciously cheap. You'd probably pay a bit off the loan in 2 years, and who knows where Huracan prices will go but trade in £20k less than retail is probably not a bad guess [edit] assuming prices stay static]
Do Huracan prices dip substantially in winter like similar cars, so you might lose £5k selling the Cayman but get £10k off a Lambo?
I have never borrowed to buy anything except my home, but I grew up in an era when debt was bad and interest rates were in double figures. So for me the answer would be to sell the GT4 in Spring, run around in a cheap fun car (ST Ford, Elise, S3 Audi) and save more for a purchase later next year.
Using up savings to pay installments off a loan on a toy would not be on my radar, it also makes no financial sense. Depending on your earnings, you'll either get £500 or nowt Personal Savings Allowance. The £30k you stash away to pay the loan instalments will be earning 4% so will get you between £660 (for a 45% taxpayer) to £1020 a year in your pocket. The same £30k on a loan at 8%(?) will cost you £2400pa. With that sort of difference you'd possibly be better off remortgaging to buy the car as the fees would be covered in year 1 and the interest rate would be lower. Of course the divorce costs when your wife found out might impact this assessment
Looking at your maths...Your figures basically leaves you in 2 years with a barely reduced £70k loan against a car worth £100k, So your current £85k (GT4 plus bonus plus savings) becomes £40k on your plan. Only you can decide whether it is worth knocking on for 2 grand a month to own a Huracan.
thanks guys.
supercar clinic in Bolton are really good and said servicing costs the same as the california.
They also gave the rough price on warranty. I've had a warranty through them in the past and they delivered when it was needed.
The gear speed sensor in the california went, which is arguably it's Achilles heel and they took care of it.
So in terms of servicing and warranty, not too worried.
If trade is such low value, it's incredible to see 2014 cars with 30k miles sitting around the same price as 2017 with 20k miles.
Mclaren is always an intersting alternative, I could go to a 570s around the £80k mark but the reliability and resale worry me before i've even considered buying it.
458 or a GT3 are really mileage sensitive and i'd also worry about being stuck with one whereas the Lambos seem to have a wider market.
supercar clinic in Bolton are really good and said servicing costs the same as the california.
They also gave the rough price on warranty. I've had a warranty through them in the past and they delivered when it was needed.
The gear speed sensor in the california went, which is arguably it's Achilles heel and they took care of it.
So in terms of servicing and warranty, not too worried.
If trade is such low value, it's incredible to see 2014 cars with 30k miles sitting around the same price as 2017 with 20k miles.
Mclaren is always an intersting alternative, I could go to a 570s around the £80k mark but the reliability and resale worry me before i've even considered buying it.
458 or a GT3 are really mileage sensitive and i'd also worry about being stuck with one whereas the Lambos seem to have a wider market.
Redshed said:
Mclaren is always an intersting alternative, I could go to a 570s around the £80k mark but the reliability and resale worry me before i've even considered buying it.
Why do you think a 570 would be any less reliable or harder to sell than a Huracan?If you can get one with a Factory or Thorney warranty it would (probably) cost you a lot less over 2 years than your Huracan budgeting. £80k gets you a choice from Thorney, another £5k and you are in Main Dealer territory.
Plus you could just about afford to buy it outright.
My advice is get s McLaren 650 (Spider) budget £85 to £90k (a coupe is less expensive) and you will get a proper supercar and won't lose your shirt.
Take a look at Harrys Garage on YT he bought one and loves it.
Just to add I had an orange one and it was sensational, the only reason I sold was to upgrade to a 720.
Take a look at Harrys Garage on YT he bought one and loves it.
Just to add I had an orange one and it was sensational, the only reason I sold was to upgrade to a 720.
Edited by HIS LM on Saturday 12th October 14:50
Redshed I was going through the very same mental gymnastics recently , and in fact started the supersportscar thread simply to see if other forum contributors could bring to the table other cars or considerations that I had missed .
I know nothing about finance so will write only about the cars .
In terms of conventional supercars I narrowed the choice down to ( I would want al fresco motoring ) 488 , Huracan , and McLaren of various sorts ( all convertibles )
Capital costs would be highly important , but ongoing maintenance costs even more so .
Now the controversial bit , but I,ll risk some wrath and just say it as I see it :
- the McLarens are by all accounts great cars , but they seem to come with far too many problems .
Just niggles , so many owners say ,but I no longer want to be bothered by niggles , let alone body corrosion , gorilla glass that cracks , and door hinges and suspension springs that break far too early in a car,s life .
- Huracans by most accounts are much more reliable and also great fun , but servicing is apparently much more expensive .
Also , I can never seem to get over the fact that you are paying a lot , and I do mean a lot , of money for something that lacks 2 of Lamborghini,s defining features - that V12 engine and the guillotine doors . The fact that Lamborghini themselves are using their continued faith in the V12 as a key selling point for their future flagships is also very telling .
- 488 : Yes a V8 and not Ferrari,s famed V12 , but the midengined F V8’s have to my biased mind always stood toe-to-toe with the F 12 engined cars .
Why this disconnect with what I have just written about the Lambo V10,s vs the Lambo V12,s above ?
Simply because the F V8,s have tended to be midengined sportscars that complimented the F 12 front engined GT cruisers .
The Lambo V10,s seem to be shrunken ( in more ways than one ) versions of the Lambo V12 cars .
So of these 3 cars i boiled it down to a 488 Spyder .
But you really don’t want to get a cheap and poor example of any of these three cars - that would be true purgatory .
And a 488 Spyder from a MD in a decent colour with a decent history is about £170 .
A vast , vast , amount of money .
So maybe think sideways if your objectively brilliant GT4 is not rocking you subjectively .
Why is the GT4 not making your heart jump ?
Looks ? Rarity ? Acceleration ? Cornering ? Sound ? Agility ? Pub talk ? Etc , etc .
I am currently of the opinion that an Ariel Atom 4 is the bargain supercar of the last half decade , but yes , it does demand some dedication and compromises from the owner . But then which supercar ( or indeed car ) doesn’t?
I know nothing about finance so will write only about the cars .
In terms of conventional supercars I narrowed the choice down to ( I would want al fresco motoring ) 488 , Huracan , and McLaren of various sorts ( all convertibles )
Capital costs would be highly important , but ongoing maintenance costs even more so .
Now the controversial bit , but I,ll risk some wrath and just say it as I see it :
- the McLarens are by all accounts great cars , but they seem to come with far too many problems .
Just niggles , so many owners say ,but I no longer want to be bothered by niggles , let alone body corrosion , gorilla glass that cracks , and door hinges and suspension springs that break far too early in a car,s life .
- Huracans by most accounts are much more reliable and also great fun , but servicing is apparently much more expensive .
Also , I can never seem to get over the fact that you are paying a lot , and I do mean a lot , of money for something that lacks 2 of Lamborghini,s defining features - that V12 engine and the guillotine doors . The fact that Lamborghini themselves are using their continued faith in the V12 as a key selling point for their future flagships is also very telling .
- 488 : Yes a V8 and not Ferrari,s famed V12 , but the midengined F V8’s have to my biased mind always stood toe-to-toe with the F 12 engined cars .
Why this disconnect with what I have just written about the Lambo V10,s vs the Lambo V12,s above ?
Simply because the F V8,s have tended to be midengined sportscars that complimented the F 12 front engined GT cruisers .
The Lambo V10,s seem to be shrunken ( in more ways than one ) versions of the Lambo V12 cars .
So of these 3 cars i boiled it down to a 488 Spyder .
But you really don’t want to get a cheap and poor example of any of these three cars - that would be true purgatory .
And a 488 Spyder from a MD in a decent colour with a decent history is about £170 .
A vast , vast , amount of money .
So maybe think sideways if your objectively brilliant GT4 is not rocking you subjectively .
Why is the GT4 not making your heart jump ?
Looks ? Rarity ? Acceleration ? Cornering ? Sound ? Agility ? Pub talk ? Etc , etc .
I am currently of the opinion that an Ariel Atom 4 is the bargain supercar of the last half decade , but yes , it does demand some dedication and compromises from the owner . But then which supercar ( or indeed car ) doesn’t?
all really good points and an Atom! That's definitely a curve ball, but I completely get where you are coming from.
I've had quite a few different cars, the elise was fun and exige was mega, but just need to tick that supercar box.
I love cars and love driving. I do feel that I have scratched the al fresco itch and like a coupe.
I already have a purple 1974 baja bug which is a lot of fun. A side step isn't what I am looking for, i want to go to the next bracket.
The doors on the Huracan are a pity but not a deal breaker.
I understand the Mclarens' have their issues but most supercars seem to have them these days in general.
My friend has had his 458 convertible for 6 months and it's been in the garage 5 times already. It's a low mileage and expensive convertible.
The Lotus was always firing warning lights and don't get me started on the California.
So I guess I am not going to be put off by the thought of spending £80k on a 570 and knowing it may have issues, where as something above £100k would make me feel somewhat foolish based on my own expectations as opposed to judging anyone else.
that's the cars together for context. Sorry, not the best composition.
I've had quite a few different cars, the elise was fun and exige was mega, but just need to tick that supercar box.
I love cars and love driving. I do feel that I have scratched the al fresco itch and like a coupe.
I already have a purple 1974 baja bug which is a lot of fun. A side step isn't what I am looking for, i want to go to the next bracket.
The doors on the Huracan are a pity but not a deal breaker.
I understand the Mclarens' have their issues but most supercars seem to have them these days in general.
My friend has had his 458 convertible for 6 months and it's been in the garage 5 times already. It's a low mileage and expensive convertible.
The Lotus was always firing warning lights and don't get me started on the California.
So I guess I am not going to be put off by the thought of spending £80k on a 570 and knowing it may have issues, where as something above £100k would make me feel somewhat foolish based on my own expectations as opposed to judging anyone else.
that's the cars together for context. Sorry, not the best composition.
I can fully understand and empathise with wanting a ‘ proper supercar ‘ - we,ve all been there haven’t we ?
I would just say that the bother of those niggles can be much more than annoying , and the cost of a major mechanical or electronic breakdown/fault can be soul-sapping , so buy with care , get a proper PPI , and get a decent warranty if you decide against self-warrantying .
Best of luck and Enjoy the hunt .
PS: Two lovely cars in your photo .
I would just say that the bother of those niggles can be much more than annoying , and the cost of a major mechanical or electronic breakdown/fault can be soul-sapping , so buy with care , get a proper PPI , and get a decent warranty if you decide against self-warrantying .
Best of luck and Enjoy the hunt .
PS: Two lovely cars in your photo .
Edited by carspath on Saturday 12th October 18:27
I haven’t owned a McLaren , but anecdotal comments ( of either persuasion ) do not make for a masked , double blind , controlled trial .
As such a trial is never likely to be forthcoming , potential punters are reliant , when doing their homework , on the admittedly less than perfect forums , You tube videos , personal discussions with present and ex owners etc .
What other choice is there , other than not doing any homework at all ?
And the conclusions that I have sadly had to come to , on the basis of the above are :
1) McLarens are fantastic cars when they are working
2) McLarens have reliability problems in excess of their P , F , and L rivals .
I would love a McLaren , and test drove an 600LT and an 720 at a MD recently in the hope that they would be wonderful .
And they were wonderful , but not sufficiently so against their rivals to compensate for their now entrenched ( and possibly wholly undeserved ) reputation for poor reliability and a difficult ownership experience .
McLaren first took me out for a day to Silverstone in about 2013 , and I have been keen on a McLaren ever since .
So all this not from a McLaren-hater , but rather from a McLaren-admirer .
As such a trial is never likely to be forthcoming , potential punters are reliant , when doing their homework , on the admittedly less than perfect forums , You tube videos , personal discussions with present and ex owners etc .
What other choice is there , other than not doing any homework at all ?
And the conclusions that I have sadly had to come to , on the basis of the above are :
1) McLarens are fantastic cars when they are working
2) McLarens have reliability problems in excess of their P , F , and L rivals .
I would love a McLaren , and test drove an 600LT and an 720 at a MD recently in the hope that they would be wonderful .
And they were wonderful , but not sufficiently so against their rivals to compensate for their now entrenched ( and possibly wholly undeserved ) reputation for poor reliability and a difficult ownership experience .
McLaren first took me out for a day to Silverstone in about 2013 , and I have been keen on a McLaren ever since .
So all this not from a McLaren-hater , but rather from a McLaren-admirer .
davek_964 said:
I'm not sure you should really ignore running costs in your calculation.
I was tempted by a Hurracan having never owned a Lamborghini. The reason I didn't choose one is because I wanted a convertible and wasn't really willing to compromise on a soft / fabric roof. But I was aware that servicing on Lamborghini's tends to be about double what it costs on Ferrari / McLaren etc
can i ask what experience leads you to believe that lamborghini servicing costs are "double" ?I was tempted by a Hurracan having never owned a Lamborghini. The reason I didn't choose one is because I wanted a convertible and wasn't really willing to compromise on a soft / fabric roof. But I was aware that servicing on Lamborghini's tends to be about double what it costs on Ferrari / McLaren etc
Hi davek964 ,
I wouldn’t expect you to be kissed by Prince Charming on account of my indulging or otherwise in McLarens , that really is not the point of this forum discussion .
The points here are twofold :
-That anecdotes are just anecdotes , And
-That a fairly entrenched reputation when combined with hardheaded logic (neither points to which you have responded ) will make informed potential owners think twice about becoming paid up members .
I wouldn’t expect you to be kissed by Prince Charming on account of my indulging or otherwise in McLarens , that really is not the point of this forum discussion .
The points here are twofold :
-That anecdotes are just anecdotes , And
-That a fairly entrenched reputation when combined with hardheaded logic (neither points to which you have responded ) will make informed potential owners think twice about becoming paid up members .
andrew said:
can i ask what experience leads you to believe that lamborghini servicing costs are "double" ?
I've seen quoted service prices of around £3k. That's a significant step up from my experience with Ferrari and McLaren. As I said, it's not the reason I didn't buy one but it did seem than Lamborghini servicing is generally more than Ferrari and McLaren
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