Murcielago back Home

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Larry5.2

496 posts

111 months

Tuesday 3rd March 2020
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Interesting.... I was led to believe all UK cars had Secondary Cats when first sold.

Lambo FirstBlood

Original Poster:

973 posts

182 months

Tuesday 3rd March 2020
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AndyC_123 said:
Awesome, stunning car.

How did the price compare between what you paid originally vs what you sold it for vs now bought again, if it's not too personal of a question?
I don’t mind answering. I paid £64500 more than I sold it for.

I reckon 6 years of maintenance and insurance would have eaten up half of that so all in all, I can live with it!

Lambo FirstBlood

Original Poster:

973 posts

182 months

Tuesday 3rd March 2020
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ThePrincipal said:
Lambo FirstBlood said:
Larry5.2 said:
Good to hear you got it back! I couldn't bear to ever be parted with mine...

I've got Larini sport cats with a Fabspeed exhaust which sounds awesome, but is still quite loud. Passes MOTs no problem. Sport cats with the std rear muffler box could be a good solution, or Fabspeed with std cats.... I had a Tubi on there before and that was louder strangely enough, despite being a substantial silencer box.
Thanks Larry, Thats really helpful. I don't mind loud but the straight pipes are quite warrbly and REALLY loud. Also don't fancy the fat every year for the MOT.

I've looked at the Larini site.

Is is just the primary sports cats that you have from them? Like these: https://www.larinisystems.com/collection/lamborghi...

Or do you have secondaries as well?

Fab speed I could only find in dollars

Is this what you have?

https://www.fabspeed.com/lamborghini-murcielago-su...

Pout of interest, any reason you didn't go for the whole system including sports cats for Fab Speed an decided to do part Larini and part Fab Speed?

Cheers,

LFB
The cats you've linked from the Larini website are for an early car with no valves. You will need primary cats for an MOT as your car as no cats, the primary cats were deleted and the secondary cats are not fitted to UK cars. The US cars have secondary cats hence why you will see them listed on most exhaust manufacturer websites.
These are the primary sport cats for an LP640...
https://www.larinisystems.com/collection/lamborghi...
Thanks. I think I’ve got that. I think Sports cats are the best compromise between straight pipes and the factory cats. If I left as is, would I really have to have them swapped back for every MOT?

As far as the rest of the exhaust, I like the look of this system:

https://lamborfkinghini.com/collections/lamborgh...

It does away with all the secondary pipes and the muffler box and is 110lbs lighter!

SL550M

600 posts

113 months

Monday 9th March 2020
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Apropos nothing in particular....I can't help reporting my delight at seeing an orange Murcielago in torrential rain on Sunday afternoon on the M4. They look as spectacular now as they did at launch. Bravo to the owner...whoever he/she might be. That big orange beast brightened my day, literally and metaphorically.

Lambo FirstBlood

Original Poster:

973 posts

182 months

Thursday 19th March 2020
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Ok, so Everyone I’ve spoken to has only got positive things to say about converting Murcielagos to RWD. I’ve met with 2 x owners who’ve had it done and heard from another 6 online all who have had it done and they have all said it transforms the car.

I’ve ordered the kit and I’m waiting for it to arrive. Larry 5.2 is a legend and has agreed to help me me fit it rather than paying someone!

It’s completely 100% reversible and it saves 75 Kg.

I’ll post some pictures if there’s interest.


carspath

839 posts

180 months

Thursday 19th March 2020
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LamboFirstBlood …… lovely , lovely car . Enjoy .
Please could you elaborate as to why converting it to RWD transforms it in a positive way . It seems strange that Sant' Agata decided against doing a RWD version of the Murcielago .


The Principal : That was a really informative contribution
Please could you give us all a similar lesson on the 571 bhp , 6.2 litre version … I would really appreciate some further insight into the exhaust system of the earlier model variant .
Also , with respect to the 6.2 version , was the exhaust system identical in the Roadster and the Coupe ?

Ferruccio

1,838 posts

122 months

Friday 20th March 2020
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carspath said:
LamboFirstBlood …… lovely , lovely car . Enjoy .
Please could you elaborate as to why converting it to RWD transforms it in a positive way . It seems strange that Sant' Agata decided against doing a RWD version of the Murcielago .
My experience is that it’s best to leave things as they left the factory.
If you don’t, it can lead to unintended, unexpected consequences.

I remember when the Diablo VT first came out and Valentino Balboni explained why he thought it drove better than the RWD car.

I have a RWD Diablo and a Murci.
They are obviously just different but the Murci can obviously be driven quicker.

Larry5.2

496 posts

111 months

Friday 20th March 2020
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Ferruccio said:
My experience is that it’s best to leave things as they left the factory.
.
Not always... Modern manufacturers need to make a car to suit all abilities, and to be idiot safe to avoid litigation - look at how many people tried to sue porsche for the 930 turbo that was a bit of an animal. If porsche had made that 4wd, it wouldn't have had the performance that it did (in dry conditions :-) ). Sure it could bite, but you either want your supercar to be able to kill you, or you want something super-safe that does everything for you. Or something in the middle... smile

What I'm trying to say rather badly, is that you can compromise performance under some conditions, to maximise it in others. A 2wd Murci is a handful in the wet, but I wouldn't have it any other way when you consider it in the dry. And, I relish the fact that it takes some extra effort and interaction when conditions are inclement. It's not a car that gets used frequently but when it does, I want it to perform.

Lambo FirstBlood

Original Poster:

973 posts

182 months

Friday 20th March 2020
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carspath said:
LamboFirstBlood …… lovely , lovely car . Enjoy .
Please could you elaborate as to why converting it to RWD transforms it in a positive way . It seems strange that Sant' Agata decided against doing a RWD version of the Murcielago .


The Principal : That was a really informative contribution
Please could you give us all a similar lesson on the 571 bhp , 6.2 litre version … I would really appreciate some further insight into the exhaust system of the earlier model variant .
Also , with respect to the 6.2 version , was the exhaust system identical in the Roadster and the Coupe ?
Thanks mate. It’s so nice having it back!

So every thing I have to say about RWD on a Murcielago is anecdotal and/or second hand because I haven’t yet completed my conversion. I’ve done lots of research and have spoken to a good number of owners and have seen 2 x converted cars and met with their owners for a decent amount of time.

One of them at least is on PH.

The pros that have been explained to me are:

Reduced weight - 75 KGs
Increased clutch life - approx 200%
Increased power/reduced power train loss
Improved low speed manoeuvrability
Improved handling

The con that has been explained to me is simply reduced traction.

An additional benefit of the conversion is it means other tyres can be fitted.

The Pirelli’s that come as standard are now 17 years old and tyre technology has moved on loads since then.

There are very few tyres that fit the factory rear wheels because they are 18 inches but very wide (335/30 )and that’s tiny by modern standards. There is a Toyo tyre that fits and it pairs with a slightly wider front than normal (which again would aid traction) which couldn’t be used with the standard 4wd set up.

Again, second hand only but I’ve spoken to owners and they say that the loss in traction can be more than made up for by changing the tyres so I intend to do that too.

The other thing is that the whole process is 100% reversible and if it don’t like it, I can put it all back with no permanent consequences.





Ferruccio

1,838 posts

122 months

Friday 20th March 2020
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Wouldn’t it be easier to just buy a RWD car?

Lambo FirstBlood

Original Poster:

973 posts

182 months

Friday 20th March 2020
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Ferruccio said:
Wouldn’t it be easier to just buy a RWD car?
I think I’d rather know where it has been. Although it’s been out of my ownership for a few years, 80% of the mileage was at my own fair hand so would feel much happier than I would buying one that had already been converted.

Lambo FirstBlood

Original Poster:

973 posts

182 months

Friday 20th March 2020
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Ferruccio, you said you’d had a bad experience. Can you share? Would be keen to know what went wrong your end.

Ferruccio

1,838 posts

122 months

Friday 20th March 2020
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Lambo FirstBlood said:
Ferruccio, you said you’d had a bad experience. Can you share? Would be keen to know what went wrong your end.
Not with a Lamborghini but with something else.
Engine enlarged. Was great for 6 months. Then went pop. Needed a new engine.

Ferruccio

1,838 posts

122 months

Friday 20th March 2020
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Lambo FirstBlood said:
Ferruccio said:
Wouldn’t it be easier to just buy a RWD car?
I think I’d rather know where it has been. Although it’s been out of my ownership for a few years, 80% of the mileage was at my own fair hand so would feel much happier than I would buying one that had already been converted.
I mean a different car that was originally RWD, like an early Diablo if it has to be a Lambo.

Lambo FirstBlood

Original Poster:

973 posts

182 months

Friday 20th March 2020
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Ferruccio said:
Lambo FirstBlood said:
Ferruccio, you said you’d had a bad experience. Can you share? Would be keen to know what went wrong your end.
Not with a Lamborghini but with something else.
Engine enlarged. Was great for 6 months. Then went pop. Needed a new engine.
Ouch! I can see why you’d advise caution then.

Larry5.2

496 posts

111 months

Friday 20th March 2020
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One thing.... the Lamborghini Murcielago GT1 car is/was RWD..... smile

Lambo FirstBlood

Original Poster:

973 posts

182 months

Friday 20th March 2020
quotequote all
Ferruccio said:
Lambo FirstBlood said:
Ferruccio said:
Wouldn’t it be easier to just buy a RWD car?
I think I’d rather know where it has been. Although it’s been out of my ownership for a few years, 80% of the mileage was at my own fair hand so would feel much happier than I would buying one that had already been converted.
I mean a different car that was originally RWD, like an early Diablo if it has to be a Lambo.
I’m not a fan of the Diablo, never have been and besides I have a lot of history with this specific car having specced it from new so it does have to be this car.

Not discounting your experience but the Murcielago chassis is very similar to the Diablo’s and as you say, there were RWD Diablos produced by the factory so I can’t see how it could do any serious damage.

Of the 12 Murcielago owners I’ve been in touch with, the majority have done the conversion and all have said they’d never go back so maybe it is particularly well suited to this car.

Larry, you beat me to it, referencing the GT1 car!

carspath

839 posts

180 months

Saturday 21st March 2020
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Book : 9781845849221
Pg 131 : talks about the RWD ONLY Murcielago R-GT .



Audi Sport and Reiter Engineering ( who were also involved in developing the race versions of the KTM X-BOW -- there are so many associations and similarities between KTM and Lamborghini ) developed this race car .

Less than 1100 Kg , and the engine cubic capacity was also reduced to 5988 cc .
A truly massive rear wing , even by Lambo standards .



Wold be really interesting to know how different / similar your after market conversion is to the technology / mechanicals of the R-GT .

Larry5.2

496 posts

111 months

Saturday 21st March 2020
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carspath said:
Book : 9781845849221
Pg 131 : talks about the RWD ONLY Murcielago R-GT .



Audi Sport and Reiter Engineering ( who were also involved in developing the race versions of the KTM X-BOW -- there are so many associations and similarities between KTM and Lamborghini ) developed this race car .

Less than 1100 Kg , and the engine cubic capacity was also reduced to 5988 cc .
A truly massive rear wing , even by Lambo standards .



Wold be really interesting to know how different / similar your after market conversion is to the technology / mechanicals of the R-GT .
The rear wing would certainly help a lot with traction...
The conversion to RWD comprises of removing the front diff, torque tube from gearbox to diff, and the front driveshafts. You then need to replace the driveshafts with stubs - there's a number of choice for this including Lambo Diablo SV parts. Then the front of the gearbox needs supporting, which starts to get interesting smile

There is a bloke in the US selling a nice-looking part to do this job. I had my own design machined and fitted it. I made a few of these available on the LamboTalk website, but TBH I sold too cheap and just about broke even. These were for manual cars only but I had an eGear version in the pipeline. I decided to stop it and focus on my day job.... However if there is interest, this can be rekindled...

Lambo FirstBlood

Original Poster:

973 posts

182 months

Saturday 28th March 2020
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I got a fantastic deal on a full set of Toyo R888 tyres. They arrived last week although it will be a while before I can fit them let alone let you all know how they drive. The are a couple of years old before they move to R888R, hence the deal, but I think I'll get some good use out of them way before they expire.

I went for a slightly wider front (255 as opposed to 245) than the standard Pirelli to aid with traction after the RWD conversion. They look great and I've heard very good things about their performance.

I hope everyone is keeping safe in these uncertain times.

Cheers,

LFB