P1 GTR road going..... how many ?
Discussion
It's a Lanzante car, rather than a McLaren product. Is it not a P1 with some GTR and other bits added on so as to get the benefit of race mode/height adjustable suspension? I think I'm right in saying that the P1 GTR has non-adjustable suspension? Would that extend to those modified to be driven on the road?
S1MMA said:
I think I saw one of the road legal P1 GTRs on Sat morning, on the A23/M23 coming out of west Sussex and going towards London.
Only caught a glimpse of it on the other side of the motorway, could have been a stickered P1....
If it was in Lark colours, that'll be Andy. I think that's his stomping ground.Only caught a glimpse of it on the other side of the motorway, could have been a stickered P1....
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/event-coverage/festi...
6 Of these new LM's to come.
"And there’s not just one of them either, but a run of six – the first, this dark grey prototype, to be followed by another in dark grey and four in orange. The price is £2.95m plus taxes (the regular P1 GTR, all sold now, was circa £2m), and all are expected to be delivered to their owners in January 2017".
6 Of these new LM's to come.
"And there’s not just one of them either, but a run of six – the first, this dark grey prototype, to be followed by another in dark grey and four in orange. The price is £2.95m plus taxes (the regular P1 GTR, all sold now, was circa £2m), and all are expected to be delivered to their owners in January 2017".
road legal, 110kg lighter than a standard p1 and 40% more downforce!
full press release:
THE McLAREN P1 LM
Background
Lanzante Ltd. first became globally synonymous with the McLaren name when it ran the semi-works McLaren F1 GTR that won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1995. 21 years later, Lanzante has created the McLaren P1 LM - its first limited production road car and a development of the most recent models to be produced within McLaren's Ultimate Series.
Intended to be the quickest, rarest and last of the P1 variants, and delivered to Lanzante by McLaren Special Operations' Bespoke division, the P1 LM is road legal yet offers even more performance than the McLaren P1™ GTR. So far an experimental prototype has been completed and it is this which will take to Goodwood's Hill in Class 25 for Modern GT Racers with 1999 Indy 500 winner and McLaren test driver, Kenny Bräck, behind the wheel.
A further five production cars will be produced: one in dark grey like the prototype, the other four in orange. All are expected to be delivered to customers in January 2017.
Engine
The biggest change is to the engine hardware producing additional boost and hybrid power in order to maintain the McLaren P1™ GTR's 1000PS (986bhp). This is achieved while still using 99-octane fuel.
The engine bay features gold plated heat shielding while the catalytic convertor pipes and exhaust headers are made using the exotic 'super-alloy' Inconel saving 4.5 kg. Furthermore, the charge coolers will be produced with even more efficient cores to maintain power at higher run temperatures.
Chassis
Wheels and tyres are unique to the P1 LM but the Race Active Chassis Control and major parts of the McLaren P1™ GTR are retained.
The LM will be 60kg lighter than even the McLaren P1™ GTR thanks to the removal of race parts such as the air-jack system, the use of lightweight seats from the McLaren F1 GTR, the Inconel exhaust and titanium tailpipes, lightweight fabricated charge coolers, Lexan windows, and the use of titanium bolts and fixings.
The final set up of the cars will be completed by Kenny Brack at the Nürburgring circuit.
Design
The advanced aerodynamics and styling of the McLaren P1™ GTR are largely carried over to the P1 LM but with increased aero from a modified rear wing, and larger front splitter and dive planes. Together the changes give a predicted increase in downforce of 40%.
The P1 LM is uniquely fitted with a fully exposed carbon fibre roof and additional panels. Other exterior changes include orange brake callipers on the orange examples and silver on the grey ones.
Interior
Exposed carbon fibre covers the entire dashboard, instrument cowl, seat backs, roof, door cards, centre console and even the floor mats. Air conditioning is included as standard.
Orange Alcantara ® is used for the seat inserts and door pulls on the orange cars, black on the grey examples. Five point seat belts are also fitted.
The Alcantara ® trimmed steering wheel is unique to the P1 LM and is a modified version of that used in the championship winning McLaren MP4/23 driven by Lewis Hamilton.
Additional Equipment
The P1 LM will be supplied by Lanzante Ltd. with a full tool kit including a torque wrench and wheel socket plus diagnostics tablet. Included, too, will be a tailored car cover and battery charging system. Owners will also be treated to a 1:8 scale model of their car and framed rendering.
full press release:
THE McLAREN P1 LM
Background
Lanzante Ltd. first became globally synonymous with the McLaren name when it ran the semi-works McLaren F1 GTR that won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1995. 21 years later, Lanzante has created the McLaren P1 LM - its first limited production road car and a development of the most recent models to be produced within McLaren's Ultimate Series.
Intended to be the quickest, rarest and last of the P1 variants, and delivered to Lanzante by McLaren Special Operations' Bespoke division, the P1 LM is road legal yet offers even more performance than the McLaren P1™ GTR. So far an experimental prototype has been completed and it is this which will take to Goodwood's Hill in Class 25 for Modern GT Racers with 1999 Indy 500 winner and McLaren test driver, Kenny Bräck, behind the wheel.
A further five production cars will be produced: one in dark grey like the prototype, the other four in orange. All are expected to be delivered to customers in January 2017.
Engine
The biggest change is to the engine hardware producing additional boost and hybrid power in order to maintain the McLaren P1™ GTR's 1000PS (986bhp). This is achieved while still using 99-octane fuel.
The engine bay features gold plated heat shielding while the catalytic convertor pipes and exhaust headers are made using the exotic 'super-alloy' Inconel saving 4.5 kg. Furthermore, the charge coolers will be produced with even more efficient cores to maintain power at higher run temperatures.
Chassis
Wheels and tyres are unique to the P1 LM but the Race Active Chassis Control and major parts of the McLaren P1™ GTR are retained.
The LM will be 60kg lighter than even the McLaren P1™ GTR thanks to the removal of race parts such as the air-jack system, the use of lightweight seats from the McLaren F1 GTR, the Inconel exhaust and titanium tailpipes, lightweight fabricated charge coolers, Lexan windows, and the use of titanium bolts and fixings.
The final set up of the cars will be completed by Kenny Brack at the Nürburgring circuit.
Design
The advanced aerodynamics and styling of the McLaren P1™ GTR are largely carried over to the P1 LM but with increased aero from a modified rear wing, and larger front splitter and dive planes. Together the changes give a predicted increase in downforce of 40%.
The P1 LM is uniquely fitted with a fully exposed carbon fibre roof and additional panels. Other exterior changes include orange brake callipers on the orange examples and silver on the grey ones.
Interior
Exposed carbon fibre covers the entire dashboard, instrument cowl, seat backs, roof, door cards, centre console and even the floor mats. Air conditioning is included as standard.
Orange Alcantara ® is used for the seat inserts and door pulls on the orange cars, black on the grey examples. Five point seat belts are also fitted.
The Alcantara ® trimmed steering wheel is unique to the P1 LM and is a modified version of that used in the championship winning McLaren MP4/23 driven by Lewis Hamilton.
Additional Equipment
The P1 LM will be supplied by Lanzante Ltd. with a full tool kit including a torque wrench and wheel socket plus diagnostics tablet. Included, too, will be a tailored car cover and battery charging system. Owners will also be treated to a 1:8 scale model of their car and framed rendering.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Great but I can only imagine how those (of whom we know of one amongst here) who bought the Ultimate Mcl, to be pissed off when the GTR was announced,
and then those who then bought the Ultimate Ultimate Mcl in the GTR are maybe a little miffed when they heard some were then being converted to be an Ultimate Ultimate Mcl that was actually road legal too,
and then now ? A Uber Ulitmate Ulimate sanctioned Unicorn tears unobtanium version is (was) an offering which must dilute down the magic of all of the above surely ? ? ? ?
its does all kinda make the limited build numbers seem a little odd.
Is this going the way of the Zonda's that were 'The last Zonda ever........ (maybe)' ?
Maybe as an owner I can answer?and then those who then bought the Ultimate Ultimate Mcl in the GTR are maybe a little miffed when they heard some were then being converted to be an Ultimate Ultimate Mcl that was actually road legal too,
and then now ? A Uber Ulitmate Ulimate sanctioned Unicorn tears unobtanium version is (was) an offering which must dilute down the magic of all of the above surely ? ? ? ?
its does all kinda make the limited build numbers seem a little odd.
Is this going the way of the Zonda's that were 'The last Zonda ever........ (maybe)' ?
I think the LM is fantastic, not pissed off at all. Anyone that has bought a GTR will feel same as it just confirms the value of the car.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
andy74b said:
Maybe as an owner I can answer?
I think the LM is fantastic, not pissed off at all. Anyone that has bought a GTR will feel same as it just confirms the value of the car.
Is there any thought on the GTR now being slightly 'superseded' though by the LM though?I think the LM is fantastic, not pissed off at all. Anyone that has bought a GTR will feel same as it just confirms the value of the car.
Don't get me wrong - brilliant if owners like yourself are in it for 100% drivability and enjoyment, but some must be counting on the rarified and halo status from an investment point too ?
And/Or Flemke's anguish that when sold the Original P1 (blind if I recall) they were assured it would be the best of the best of what could be done.
The argument is that the GTR proved that promise to be a little bit adrift, and the LM- more so.
In relation to McLaren's previous promises, making the P1 GTR was rather taking the P, assisting in making the GTRs road-legal was more taking the P, and making an additional 15 new cars from old tubs was totally taking the P.
Then to break further promises by making a 675LT spider was taking even more P, to make additional 675LT coupes from old tubs was taking extra P, and now to be making another 25 675LT coupes in "all carbon" is taking so much P that McLaren could start their own urine bank.
Doing one of the above was bad form, but they're a young company, still finding their way, blah, blah.
Doing two of the above was inexcusable.
When they admitted that they knew beforehand that, by making the 675LT spider, they would make a lot of their customers angry, but they chose to make it anyhow, said a lot about the lack of ethics down there.
For those of us who have steadfastly supported McLaren precisely because we believed that they were more honourable than Ferrari, this whole saga has been deeply disappointing.
flemke said:
In relation to McLaren's previous promises, making the P1 GTR was rather taking the P, assisting in making the GTRs road-legal was more taking the P, and making an additional 15 new cars from old tubs was totally taking the P.
I'm a P1 owner and I completely disagree with that. I am not the lead bit bothered by the fact they made the P1 GTR nor that they allowed Lanzante to make them road legal. It does not diminish my enjoying my P1 one tiny bit. After seeing the incredible experience that P1 GTR owners who chose to experience the whole track package have I wished I had the time and the money required to play at that level. They are having a ball with their P1 GTRs!flemke said:
Then to break further promises by making a 675LT spider was taking even more P, to make additional 675LT coupes from old tubs was taking extra P, and now to be making another 25 675LT coupes in "all carbon" is taking so much P that McLaren could start their own urine bank.
As a 675LT owner I wasn't the least bit upset by the spider, the HS or the very expensive carbon-bodied spiders. In fact I was one of the McLaren customers begging them to make a 675LT Spider and I've now got one on order. If 675LT coupe customers were unhappy they could easily have, at the time of the 675LT Spider announcement, sold their 675LT coupes for a very nice profit and put their money elsewhere. If they chose not to do that then they knew what they were getting into and they now have the best supercar money can buy for under a million dollars - one which now sits at the top of the Top Gear lap time leaderboard and has earned rave reviews. flemke said:
When they admitted that they knew beforehand that, by making the 675LT spider, they would make a lot of their customers angry, but they chose to make it anyhow, said a lot about the lack of ethics down there.
On the flip side they made a lot of customers very happy at the same time. Those could be people who weren't able to get coupes, people who bought coupes but really wanted spiders, people who didn't want coupes but really wanted spiders or people who wanted a coupe for the track and a spider for the road (that's me!). In fact you could say they made 500 spider customers happy and some percentage of coupe customers were certainly not-unhappy (I am one for sure but I know others who have no problem with this) so in the end they made more 675LT customers happy than unhappy. I'm not saying that makes it a perfect decision but on balance it's weighted toward more happiness than unhappiness. Would people have been happier or angrier if McLaren had priced the 675LT coupe $100,000 to $150,000 higher and stuck to the 500 (only coupes) they originally planned to do? Because that ultimately would have been their best decision but would have made far fewer people happy than the current outcome. They clearly underpriced the car and had they priced it properly, and stuck to that quantity, a lot of people who were able to order them (coupe & spider combined) at MSRP wouldn't have been able to.
MarkNC said:
flemke said:
In relation to McLaren's previous promises, making the P1 GTR was rather taking the P, assisting in making the GTRs road-legal was more taking the P, and making an additional 15 new cars from old tubs was totally taking the P.
I'm a P1 owner and I completely disagree with that. I am not the lead bit bothered by the fact they made the P1 GTR nor that they allowed Lanzante to make them road legal. It does not diminish my enjoying my P1 one tiny bit. After seeing the incredible experience that P1 GTR owners who chose to experience the whole track package have I wished I had the time and the money required to play at that level. They are having a ball with their P1 GTRs!flemke said:
Then to break further promises by making a 675LT spider was taking even more P, to make additional 675LT coupes from old tubs was taking extra P, and now to be making another 25 675LT coupes in "all carbon" is taking so much P that McLaren could start their own urine bank.
As a 675LT owner I wasn't the least bit upset by the spider, the HS or the very expensive carbon-bodied spiders. In fact I was one of the McLaren customers begging them to make a 675LT Spider and I've now got one on order. If 675LT coupe customers were unhappy they could easily have, at the time of the 675LT Spider announcement, sold their 675LT coupes for a very nice profit and put their money elsewhere. If they chose not to do that then they knew what they were getting into and they now have the best supercar money can buy for under a million dollars - one which now sits at the top of the Top Gear lap time leaderboard and has earned rave reviews. flemke said:
When they admitted that they knew beforehand that, by making the 675LT spider, they would make a lot of their customers angry, but they chose to make it anyhow, said a lot about the lack of ethics down there.
On the flip side they made a lot of customers very happy at the same time. Those could be people who weren't able to get coupes, people who bought coupes but really wanted spiders, people who didn't want coupes but really wanted spiders or people who wanted a coupe for the track and a spider for the road (that's me!). In fact you could say they made 500 spider customers happy and some percentage of coupe customers were certainly not-unhappy (I am one for sure but I know others who have no problem with this) so in the end they made more 675LT customers happy than unhappy. I'm not saying that makes it a perfect decision but on balance it's weighted toward more happiness than unhappiness. Would people have been happier or angrier if McLaren had priced the 675LT coupe $100,000 to $150,000 higher and stuck to the 500 (only coupes) they originally planned to do? Because that ultimately would have been their best decision but would have made far fewer people happy than the current outcome. They clearly underpriced the car and had they priced it properly, and stuck to that quantity, a lot of people who were able to order them (coupe & spider combined) at MSRP wouldn't have been able to.
flemke said:
Do you believe that, having made a promise, it makes no difference whether one keeps it?
No I don't believe that.But then let me as you this...
Have you never, ever, not even once, gone back on a promise in your entire lifetime?
Have you never made a promise that circumstances forced you to break?
MarkNC said:
flemke said:
Do you believe that, having made a promise, it makes no difference whether one keeps it?
No I don't believe that.But then let me as you this...
Have you never, ever, not even once, gone back on a promise in your entire lifetime?
Have you never made a promise that circumstances forced you to break?
There is a profound difference between breaking a promise owing to circumstances that are outside of one's control, and breaking a promise owing to circumstances that are entirely within one's control and doing so with the sole motive of sheer greed.
And even if one has broken a promise owing to circumstances that are entirely within one's control, many, many of us would try to find some way of mitigating the damage done to them to whom we had made that promise and then broken it.
In this case, McLaren's attitude was just, "Tough titty." Bad enough to break that promise, but even worse: not so much as a word of apology or even empathy from them.
Would it have been that tough for Mike Flewitt to write a letter to the all the P1 buyers whom he screwed or the 675LT coupe buyers whom he screwed and simply explain why McLaren "had to" or chose to do what it did, and apologise for any misunderstandings?
Could McLaren Automotive not have offered some token of recompense - even a f**king free book, or autographed photos of Alonso and Button, or something, anything, in recognition of having sucker-punched so many loyal customers?
The broken promises have been bad enough, but McLaren's indifference to the customers it harmed has been disgraceful.
Somebody ought to tell Mike Flewitt that loyalty is not a one-way street. You cannot expect your customers to be loyal to you when you are consistently disloyal to them.
flemke said:
Would it have been that tough for Mike Flewitt to write a letter to the all the P1 buyers whom he screwed or the 675LT coupe buyers whom he screwed and simply explain why McLaren "had to" or chose to do what it did, and apologise for any misunderstandings?
Do you own a P1? Likewise do you own a 675LT?
(If so please state if you were the original buyer of the car(s) or bought it/them second hand)
I am an original buyer of both cars and I clearly don't feel "screwed" and I know other original buyers of these cars who feel as I do. Giving that some percentage of the buying population does not feel "screwed", like you do, I don't see how the company could decide who they had to apologize to and who they didn't.
MarkNC said:
flemke said:
Would it have been that tough for Mike Flewitt to write a letter to the all the P1 buyers whom he screwed or the 675LT coupe buyers whom he screwed and simply explain why McLaren "had to" or chose to do what it did, and apologise for any misunderstandings?
Do you own a P1? Likewise do you own a 675LT?
(If so please state if you were the original buyer of the car(s) or bought it/them second hand)
I am an original buyer of both cars and I clearly don't feel "screwed" and I know other original buyers of these cars who feel as I do. Giving that some percentage of the buying population does not feel "screwed", like you do, I don't see how the company could decide who they had to apologize to and who they didn't.
I believe that McLaren received more complaints from 675LT coupe buyers than they did from P1 buyers. This was both because more 675LT coupes were sold and also because McLaren has made splashy announcements about the 675LT spiders, and thus every coupe owner learned what was going on.
In contrast, it is my impression that many P1 buyers still do not realise that McLaren exceeded the 375 limit for P1 road cars and also assisted Lanzante in making the GTRs road-legal. Certainly McLaren has done nothing to publicise those facts.
Many Pistonheads regulars will know whether I was directly affected, but so what if I was? One does not have to be the victim of an action to judge whether it was wrong. The implication of your personal queries is that only people who bought the cars (which would be only wealthy people) are able to have a valid opinion.
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