Will I lose my shirt on a 650?

Will I lose my shirt on a 650?

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Discussion

Juno

2,812 posts

187 months

Monday 4th February
quotequote all
RamboLambo said:
TP321 said:
You absolutley stole that if you only paid £165k in March 2016 for a 650s. It just proves how badly they retain value...FACTlaugh

It would be nice to see this repeating with the 720S...
You contradict yourself in the same sentence, doh. He absolutely stole it but yet the residuals are supposed to be poo ? Make your mind up but I would agree it was a steal hence why he made a PROFIT on it and far from depreciating it actually APPRECIATED.

I don't know why you would want the 720S to crash ??? and I'm afraid you are going to be bitterly disappointed with its success already- 1400 orders and oversubscribed ie sold out

A British car company leading the way in the supercar market and shaking up the status quo and monopoly of the Italians and keeping everyone on their toes has got to be good for the consumer
For some reason i ended up reading this old post but one thing is time has given us the answers and i think its fair to say that the 720s have indeed crashed £'s Sad but alas true!

Dblue

2,884 posts

138 months

Monday 4th February
quotequote all
TP321 said:
Dblue said:
Bought my 650S Spider in mantis last March (2016) at £165k representing a fall of £85k from new list price , not that I imagine it was sold for that.
Used it for only 6 months but 6600 miles and sold rapidly through Alastair for £2.5k more than I paid. Good spec cars seem to have a ready market and prices remain strong.
You absolutley stole that if you only paid £165k in March 2016 for a 650s. It just proves how badly they retain value...FACTlaugh

It would be nice to see this repeating with the 720S...
Update on my car , now for sale with 15.5k miles at GC for £118900 (Down from their initial asking of £130k.)
Staggering value for money at that cost -
But that's a £45k drop for 4000 miles in 2 and bit years

akadk

675 posts

117 months

Monday 4th February
quotequote all
£11 a mile depreciation
Ouch !

12pack

651 posts

106 months

Tuesday 5th February
quotequote all
May sound high in absolute dollar terms, especially compared to an owner's perception of their car's value - but not really that far off in % terms for this sort of car.

In short, you will lose your shirt. But if you have enough shirts, a well looked after, low mileage, one or two previous owner car - good as new (but all the niggles settled) - makes for spectacular value.

Really enjoying mine for the tech and the sheer pace. Where else can you get a mid-engined "exotic", with no penalty for being a convertible, with this sort of performance for your money.

Edited by 12pack on Tuesday 5th February 07:46

RevsPerMinute

1,615 posts

159 months

Tuesday 5th February
quotequote all
Dblue said:
TP321 said:
Dblue said:
Bought my 650S Spider in mantis last March (2016) at £165k representing a fall of £85k from new list price , not that I imagine it was sold for that.
Used it for only 6 months but 6600 miles and sold rapidly through Alastair for £2.5k more than I paid. Good spec cars seem to have a ready market and prices remain strong.
You absolutley stole that if you only paid £165k in March 2016 for a 650s. It just proves how badly they retain value...FACTlaugh

It would be nice to see this repeating with the 720S...
Update on my car , now for sale with 15.5k miles at GC for £118900 (Down from their initial asking of £130k.)
Staggering value for money at that cost -
But that's a £45k drop for 4000 miles in 2 and bit years
So the question is, is now the time to buy or would I loose my shirt on one? hehe

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12pack

651 posts

106 months

Tuesday 5th February
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So per my previous post, how many shirts do you have? It’s all a trade off between enjoying something now and perceived value for money.

For sure the car will depreciate at least line in line with other super cars. If it’s within your budget now - buy it. Decide what your budget is and buy the best car you can within it.

Of course, you can always wait - but you can just do that indefinitely - or, e.g., till a 720s is within your budget. But you’ll have missed years of enjoyment.

Dblue

2,884 posts

138 months

Tuesday 5th February
quotequote all
Ordinarily a car like this settles at a price where depreciation becomes a matter of condition and mileage rather than just a continuous decline. Gallardo, F430 etc all effectively stop or did stop at around about the £60-70k level. Usually by 6-7 years old or so they level out.

The bubble like economies of the past 3-4 years mean that values are still inflated but dropping to more "normal" levels. This applies to just about everything out there including Porsche GT cars. So we're going to see them all get cheaper I think. Complicated in McLarens case by a complete lack of independents who know anything about them or have the appropriate diagnostic equipment etc.. Mac really have to help develop a network of reliable independents or their cars will continue to be treated with suspicion by the trade and values will be under pressure.

So will a £115k 650S lose more money in the next year or two? - Almost certainly ,but so will just about everything and at that price you are getting a LOT of motor car to enjoy.

andyvdg

1,475 posts

221 months

Tuesday 5th February
quotequote all
Dblue said:
......by a complete lack of independents who know anything about them or have the appropriate diagnostic equipment etc.....
Just to correct you, this is just not true anymore.

breadvan

1,283 posts

106 months

Tuesday 5th February
quotequote all
andyvdg said:
Dblue said:
......by a complete lack of independents who know anything about them or have the appropriate diagnostic equipment etc.....
Just to correct you, this is just not true anymore.
What is the latest regarding indies? How many recognised ones are there? Do they have factory backing with diag and parts supply?

Cheers

Dblue

2,884 posts

138 months

Tuesday 5th February
quotequote all
andyvdg said:
Dblue said:
......by a complete lack of independents who know anything about them or have the appropriate diagnostic equipment etc.....
Just to correct you, this is just not true anymore.
After a long fight for those that have gone for it, in spite of rather than with the help of McLaren. They've got a lot of experience they need to gain before they approach the levels of knowledge of Ferrari and Porsche specialists.There's still very few and it's going to take time to establish real confidence

I'm a fan of McLaren but they've made some poor decisions - mainly seemingly driven by arrogance . Good specialist independents are essential, McLaren should be bending over backwards to support them

Edited by Dblue on Wednesday 6th February 08:09

Thorney

290 posts

198 months

Wednesday 6th February
quotequote all
breadvan said:
What is the latest regarding indies? How many recognised ones are there? Do they have factory backing with diag and parts supply?

Cheers
There are a couple now doing Mclarens, most are 'supercar' dealers so not true specialists IMO.

We've been working on them for 5 years now, own our own 12c which we used for R&D and now have the full diagnositc kit and over 100 Mclarens on the books as customers, but more will emerge I'm sure.

ChrisW.

3,008 posts

193 months

Friday 8th February
quotequote all
Good luck to you Thorney, power to your elbow.

McLaren have certainly done so very little to help themselves .... what we need to see now are 650's losing only £5k per annum plus £1 per mile, and £5k service and warranty costs ... that is what will re-build the brand.

In the real World at this level there's very little that should do better than that ... and £15k is at least affordable ... it being less than you would lose in the first couple of years of a new car at that price.

355spiderguy

147 posts

109 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
Dblue said:
TP321 said:
Dblue said:
Bought my 650S Spider in mantis last March (2016) at £165k representing a fall of £85k from new list price , not that I imagine it was sold for that.
Used it for only 6 months but 6600 miles and sold rapidly through Alastair for £2.5k more than I paid. Good spec cars seem to have a ready market and prices remain strong.
You absolutley stole that if you only paid £165k in March 2016 for a 650s. It just proves how badly they retain value...FACTlaugh

It would be nice to see this repeating with the 720S...
Update on my car , now for sale with 15.5k miles at GC for £118900 (Down from their initial asking of £130k.)
Staggering value for money at that cost -
But that's a £45k drop for 4000 miles in 2 and bit years
McLaren Leeds listed a Mantris Green 650 spider just last week all the external carbon, sports exhaust, 1 owner 8k miles and the Mac warranty for £119,950...it went under offer already.

As someone observing prices awaiting the correct 650 spider coming up, it shows that if McLaren dealers are listing this spec at this price with the bullet proof warranty, any other indies selling these would have to be a good bit cheaper.

AB has a similar spec volcano orange 650 with double miles, double owners but the same price...I appreciate he is very good, but I would go to a main dealer every time if the prices are the same.... a main dealer should always command a premium of X amount of £000 over an indie selling the same spec and miles, so it actually makes the VO 650 car he has seem about 8-10k too expensive.

Lots of the same 650s have been advertised for sale for a while. I would say for them to start selling the prices will have to drop by a decent bit as the used market seems to have wayyy more high end cars available than buyers.

It does show that the right car, at the right price will sell quickly.

My tuppence worth is that the entry price needs to be starting below £110k at indies for these to start moving.

I wonder how hard it would be to negotiate a McLaren dealer on price and extend to a 2yr warranty on a used 650? it would certainly change things if you knew all niggles faults were covered for 2 years and all you had to do was service it without adding on a warranty cost...

DeltaOne

500 posts

151 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
355spiderguy said:
AB has a similar spec volcano orange 650 with double miles, double owners but the same price...I appreciate he is very good, but I would go to a main dealer every time if the prices are the same.... a main dealer should always command a premium of X amount of £000 over an indie selling the same spec and miles, so it actually makes the VO 650 car he has seem about 8-10k too expensive.
This never convinces me. Most main dealers have higher overheads than independents, plus whatever onerous terms imposed on them by manufacturers, or in some group central costs. So all this leads to higher prices, and at times a sense of entitlement because they’re a dealer. In my experience the most focussed and knowledgeable salespeople tend to be in the independents. There are exceptions to this rule of course, I’ve banged on about a certain Ferrari dealer enough before on here not to do so again, but in McLaren world I’ve bought four cars from dealers and one from an independent (not Alastair Bols). The independent was the best experience by a million percent. Also came very close to buying a P1 last year through Bols and he was outstanding.

Hilariously its always the dealers who sit on their hands when you offer them the car back too. Having told you why they can’t discount from list when you buy a new one they then go on about stock levels blah blah blah when it comes to wanting to sell back. The lack of balls is quite staggering at times. Independents have to put their own money where their mouth is, and in doing so deserve to make some money on the trade. I’m therefore always happy buying from good independents every bit as much as from main dealers. Sure warranty needs to be factored in some times, but that’s not insurmountable. I’d far rather let an independent have a profit on a deal and want me back as a client next time than most main dealers

355spiderguy

147 posts

109 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
DeltaOne said:
Independents have to put their own money where their mouth is, and in doing so deserve to make some money on the trade. I’m therefore always happy buying from good independents every bit as much as from main dealers. Sure warranty needs to be factored in some times, but that’s not insurmountable. I’d far rather let an independent have a profit on a deal and want me back as a client next time than most main dealers
The AB car is SOR just like almost all of the others he has for sale; if you squeeze him for a deal he then just squeezes the client selling.

McLaren Leeds own the car, it has as I mentioned half the miles, half of the owners and unlike the AB car the warranty doesn't have a limit.
In a two horse race you thoughts on an independent selling a lesser vehicle for the same amount, and who knows what warranty, sentiments would not come into it. However, if there was a price difference of say £8-10k, yes, it most certainly would come into it.

On SOR, its very easy to sit on a car as the investment for the dealer is perhaps a detail and advertising; half of the time the car is not even onsite.

I doubt very much the commission rate shall reduce by the same percentage that the car reduces in price to obtain a sale. I would imagine there is at least £3.5k fee for advertising high and then watching the price drop. Above that, the cost of the warranty shall no doubt be deducted from the sellers return. I appreciate that the seller may dictate a desired sale price, but in this current market a realistic sale price matching spec / owners / mileage is what shall obtain a sale, not a nice independent, no matter how helpful he/she is.

Only 3 or 4 months ago 650spiders were spread across the £125-155k mark. now, they are squeezed into the £120-130k mark; when the main dealers have 3 or 4 listed at the £120k mark, others for sale have to be cheaper especially with higher miles, owners etc.

As in previous post, if you can squeeze a main dealer into giving 2 year warranty thrown in on the purchase, that would go a long way; the biggest topics on the McLaren forum is worries about depreciation, failures and the £5k a year warranty on top of a service (5yrs old) straight away you have removed 66% of the perceived barriers for buying; unfortunately independents cannot offer this; infact AB is the only one I know off that can offer the McLaren warranty albeit with a limit, and he can only offer 1 year max. ( to the best of my very limited knowledge )

DeltaOne

500 posts

151 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
To be honest I don’t know a lot about McLaren warranties. When Alastair and I were talking about the P1 last year it seemed clear that lack of an extendable P1 warranty was causing a fair few issues for the second hand market, and whilst thats not what put me off the car, it served as another example of McLaren failing to think of their customers as they should.

Your SOR point is fair comment, and why I prefer independents who have their own stock not everything on SOR. Similarly when I sell cars I want to sell, not just give to someone for x weeks in case they can sell it. Granted there are only a few decent examples of these dealers, but they would be my preference every time (warranty issues aside....).

DjSki

921 posts

133 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
Main dealers that actually own stock I think are being much more realistic at the moment, I wanted to see a 12C at Ascot McLaren this weekend but it had sold by Friday, was up at £90k and with a years warranty and with its spec made it the best value car on sale at the time in my view. Most indy dealer stock seems to be SOR and owners less keen to bank a drop in value to get a sale.

Seeing this with Ferrari at the moment too, cheaper dealer F430s that come with 2 years warranty....they are selling because the dealers are being realistic.

Rocketreid

9 posts

10 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
Actually the Mantis Green 650s at McLaren Leeds has been around for months but price was dropped a month ago and they have just refreshed the advert

yak293

126 posts

171 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
Rocketreid said:
Actually the Mantis Green 650s at McLaren Leeds has been around for months but price was dropped a month ago and they have just refreshed the advert
Sold

12pack

651 posts

106 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
No security package,I believe, on that car. So no parking sensors, lift, rear camera. Needed to not damage that expensive carbon trim. No color matched stitching either. I’d be looking for those things.

Edited by 12pack on Sunday 10th February 20:33