Residuals, Man Maths and a 540C
Discussion
Think if you're buying straight without trying to trade in its a really good time alright, I made a couple of calls last week and the trade bids for my V12VS were derisory tbh..will wait and see for now common theme is dealers are full of stock at minute whether it's Mclaren, Aston or others.
RSbandit said:
Think if you're buying straight without trying to trade in its a really good time alright, I made a couple of calls last week and the trade bids for my V12VS were derisory tbh..will wait and see for now common theme is dealers are full of stock at minute whether it's Mclaren, Aston or others.
Er, if “it’s a really good time” to buy, it’s got to be a really bad time to sell........The reality is that normal depreciation is back on modern mass produced sports cars because of the endless supply, that will now always exceed demand.
And they’re much, much more complicated than they ever used to be, so there’s loads more to wrong, and it’s expensive to fix.
Edited by Ferruccio on Friday 30th August 10:20
So long overdue update. I've thought long and hard about what to actually post here, as it's been an interesting month or so, so here goes.
Scott at McGlasgow was superb through the whole time, he even spotted some additional corrosion on the car when I dropped it off and added it to the list to be rectified. I guess it's lucky he's had more experience in spotting corrosion than me
The additional work, and slight delays to the PPF meant the job took 4 weeks rather than 2, which was slightly frustrating but at the same time I had booked the car in to line up with the service, and we were also due a baby early August so in all honesty even if I'd had the car back on time I would have used it very little.
When in, mclaren arranged for an enterprise hire car for me and ended up with a 520d BMW. A surprisingly good car, but after a while it started to grate on me slightly that I was paying for a Mclaren, but driving a 5 series. More so when the job took 4 weeks, and the corrosion is a manufacturing fault. I think for cases like this a like for like car should be arranged. Not for routine stuff like servicing, but corrosion - yes.
When I was dropping the car off, I noticed the huge volume of stock in Glasgow, and mentioned I might be interested in upgrading if the deal was right. Ideally to either a spider, 720, or 600LT. After chasing for a PX value, I was told there wasn't much that could be done, a deal was too far away. So I'm still not sure what my PX price would be but reading between the lines it must be low!
I was only asking speculatively but was hoping some sort of upgrade could be arranged. Nevermind.
A couple of days later, Mclaren posted they were cutting prices across their used stock. I commented saying it didn't look good for residuals. That obviously didn't go down too well as I had a phonecall from Mclaren asking why I posted. Must admit I felt pretty let down, instead of offering £10-15k off a car, why not offer that to an existing customer and get him into the next model up, especially when he has been in and actually enquired? A bit of a simple scenario I know. Still, it's left a bitter taste.
I'm now in two minds what to do. With j220 junior arriving the 540C will be used even less, so I'm think I'll either keep the car and enjoy it for what it is. I bloody love the thing and might even put a larini /thorney exhaust on it, keeping it for road trips and special days.. I know the history of the car and I've had very little issue with it. Or do I cut my losses, and jump into something like an FF that all three of us can enjoy.
Service cost for the 2 year was just shy of £1300, and with 8k miles on I'm due a set of rear tyres. Fronts still OK. I'm still debating which route with the tyres to go, but I'm leaning towards OEM for these rear then replace all 4 with PS4S when they next need done. Paintwork is now looking immaculate, the paint shop have done a superb job.
I'll get some pics next time I get a chance to get out in it
Scott at McGlasgow was superb through the whole time, he even spotted some additional corrosion on the car when I dropped it off and added it to the list to be rectified. I guess it's lucky he's had more experience in spotting corrosion than me
The additional work, and slight delays to the PPF meant the job took 4 weeks rather than 2, which was slightly frustrating but at the same time I had booked the car in to line up with the service, and we were also due a baby early August so in all honesty even if I'd had the car back on time I would have used it very little.
When in, mclaren arranged for an enterprise hire car for me and ended up with a 520d BMW. A surprisingly good car, but after a while it started to grate on me slightly that I was paying for a Mclaren, but driving a 5 series. More so when the job took 4 weeks, and the corrosion is a manufacturing fault. I think for cases like this a like for like car should be arranged. Not for routine stuff like servicing, but corrosion - yes.
When I was dropping the car off, I noticed the huge volume of stock in Glasgow, and mentioned I might be interested in upgrading if the deal was right. Ideally to either a spider, 720, or 600LT. After chasing for a PX value, I was told there wasn't much that could be done, a deal was too far away. So I'm still not sure what my PX price would be but reading between the lines it must be low!
I was only asking speculatively but was hoping some sort of upgrade could be arranged. Nevermind.A couple of days later, Mclaren posted they were cutting prices across their used stock. I commented saying it didn't look good for residuals. That obviously didn't go down too well as I had a phonecall from Mclaren asking why I posted. Must admit I felt pretty let down, instead of offering £10-15k off a car, why not offer that to an existing customer and get him into the next model up, especially when he has been in and actually enquired? A bit of a simple scenario I know. Still, it's left a bitter taste.
I'm now in two minds what to do. With j220 junior arriving the 540C will be used even less, so I'm think I'll either keep the car and enjoy it for what it is. I bloody love the thing and might even put a larini /thorney exhaust on it, keeping it for road trips and special days.. I know the history of the car and I've had very little issue with it. Or do I cut my losses, and jump into something like an FF that all three of us can enjoy.
Service cost for the 2 year was just shy of £1300, and with 8k miles on I'm due a set of rear tyres. Fronts still OK. I'm still debating which route with the tyres to go, but I'm leaning towards OEM for these rear then replace all 4 with PS4S when they next need done. Paintwork is now looking immaculate, the paint shop have done a superb job.
I'll get some pics next time I get a chance to get out in it
Probably worth adding, I fed back all my experiences to Mclaren Client Services. Good and bad, and on the phone it seemed to be taken well. I've not heard anything since however.
My main comparison I made was to Aston Martin, where I owned two Vantages. Honestly, Aston couldn't do enough for you. I felt like royalty when dealing with them. Loan card were like for like, covered car transporters, I even had a free luggage set when they couldn't diagnose a fault with the car stalling. All minor things, but they all add up to a much better experience
My main comparison I made was to Aston Martin, where I owned two Vantages. Honestly, Aston couldn't do enough for you. I felt like royalty when dealing with them. Loan card were like for like, covered car transporters, I even had a free luggage set when they couldn't diagnose a fault with the car stalling. All minor things, but they all add up to a much better experience
It was mentioned to me that posts in the McLaren forum are read by the guys at McLaren Glasgow.
Obviously i have no idea of Justins figures and budgets but if there was an announcement of stock being discounted i would like to think that a deal could of been made for an existing customer to upgrade....it usually leads to the customer upgrading another few years down the line; almost like an investment in a client.
However, it seems it is very easy to tip a loyal customer, whom has flown the McLaren flag, towards leaving the brand.
It all seems very short sighted.
Have you put it out to other non Parks McLaren dealerships?
Obviously i have no idea of Justins figures and budgets but if there was an announcement of stock being discounted i would like to think that a deal could of been made for an existing customer to upgrade....it usually leads to the customer upgrading another few years down the line; almost like an investment in a client.
However, it seems it is very easy to tip a loyal customer, whom has flown the McLaren flag, towards leaving the brand.
It all seems very short sighted.
Have you put it out to other non Parks McLaren dealerships?
justin220 said:
...
A couple of days later, Mclaren posted they were cutting prices across their used stock. I commented saying it didn't look good for residuals. That obviously didn't go down too well as I had a phonecall from Mclaren asking why I posted. Must admit I felt pretty let down, instead of offering £10-15k off a car, why not offer that to an existing customer and get him into the next model up, especially when he has been in and actually enquired? A bit of a simple scenario I know. Still, it's left a bitter taste.
…..
Glad to hear you have the paintwork sorted, but the discounting of their stock does raise concerns from existing owners and you were 100% correct to raise the point. Yes, we're in a challenging market at the moment but they would be much better off adding £10 - £15k on to any trade-in offer rather than off their stock, they're just fuelling a race to the bottom with values lopping money off all the time.A couple of days later, Mclaren posted they were cutting prices across their used stock. I commented saying it didn't look good for residuals. That obviously didn't go down too well as I had a phonecall from Mclaren asking why I posted. Must admit I felt pretty let down, instead of offering £10-15k off a car, why not offer that to an existing customer and get him into the next model up, especially when he has been in and actually enquired? A bit of a simple scenario I know. Still, it's left a bitter taste.
…..
355spiderguy said:
It was mentioned to me that posts in the McLaren forum are read by the guys at McLaren Glasgow.
Obviously i have no idea of Justins figures and budgets but if there was an announcement of stock being discounted i would like to think that a deal could of been made for an existing customer to upgrade....it usually leads to the customer upgrading another few years down the line; almost like an investment in a client.
However, it seems it is very easy to tip a loyal customer, whom has flown the McLaren flag, towards leaving the brand.
It all seems very short sighted.
Have you put it out to other non Parks McLaren dealerships?
Totally agree. I havent spoken with any other dealer, like I said it was a reasonably speculative enquiry and I'd like to keep my loyalty with Glasgow if I'm honest. Obviously i have no idea of Justins figures and budgets but if there was an announcement of stock being discounted i would like to think that a deal could of been made for an existing customer to upgrade....it usually leads to the customer upgrading another few years down the line; almost like an investment in a client.
However, it seems it is very easy to tip a loyal customer, whom has flown the McLaren flag, towards leaving the brand.
It all seems very short sighted.
Have you put it out to other non Parks McLaren dealerships?
The value thing is a worry. Big worry if they can't even convince a current owner to trade up.
First World problem I know, but guess I'm stuck with it
Thing is...they know there is no prep costs required on your car.
Just been serviced and bodywork in mint condition; they are not taking on an unknown quantity.
Getting a current client to spend more money with them upgrading and then paying for future servicing & maintenance is surely beneficial for continuing growth of the dealership and marque....isn't it?
I think they had 4 used 18 plate 720s in stock; each of them shed *% per month sitting there, 69 plates are out now and the tough to sell season is upon us..next thing you know its 2020.
They must be under no pressure if you cannot somehow structure a deal to take one of them off their hands or indeed a 570 spider.
However, your current 540 is in rude health so keeping it isn't the worst thing to happen.
Just been serviced and bodywork in mint condition; they are not taking on an unknown quantity.
Getting a current client to spend more money with them upgrading and then paying for future servicing & maintenance is surely beneficial for continuing growth of the dealership and marque....isn't it?
I think they had 4 used 18 plate 720s in stock; each of them shed *% per month sitting there, 69 plates are out now and the tough to sell season is upon us..next thing you know its 2020.
They must be under no pressure if you cannot somehow structure a deal to take one of them off their hands or indeed a 570 spider.
However, your current 540 is in rude health so keeping it isn't the worst thing to happen.
Interesting update. McLaren have been a hot topic of conversation of late in our house.
I'm surprised that the dealership actually picked up a phone and called you about a forum post. This seems intense. The McDealers are in a bit of a spot as they are obviously wanting to shift new cars but the 540 and 70 are still a used buy that people don't have confidence in for various reasons. The fact is that they simply can't take in a px from everyone. There just aren't enough customers for the base cars. Because all the deals are wrapped up in pcp and balloons the upgrade path is very easy. One simple thing they could do to drive demand and sure up the whole McLaren brand and I'm going to put this in capitals so if they read this they can seek me out to make me head of brand strategy:
REDUCE THE COST OF THE WARRANTY
Its crazily expensive and must be the single biggest factor in putting bums on boring porsche seats instead.
The cars are affordable especially with a good pcp but they need to tackle the astounding depreciation from the bottom up by making the cheap ones sensible money to run.
The product is outstanding I've driven 2 570s now and they are really a 250k car that's next level to what anyone else is selling but from the outside looking in it's a marque that is a pretty wobbly used buy. It seems most of the issues that the cars get tend to be niggles. Ive no idea why they can't paint them properly but there are no engines blowing up so why does the warranty need to be many multiples of that for a GT3?
Aftercare again might require a bit of factory backing to get going but I think at 150k retail I would assume covered transport for servicing and warranty work. McLaren Glasgow are obviously very committed to the brand with the amount of stock they hold and the huge investment in the Leeds site. Hopefully things like transporters and loaners may follow.
I'm surprised that the dealership actually picked up a phone and called you about a forum post. This seems intense. The McDealers are in a bit of a spot as they are obviously wanting to shift new cars but the 540 and 70 are still a used buy that people don't have confidence in for various reasons. The fact is that they simply can't take in a px from everyone. There just aren't enough customers for the base cars. Because all the deals are wrapped up in pcp and balloons the upgrade path is very easy. One simple thing they could do to drive demand and sure up the whole McLaren brand and I'm going to put this in capitals so if they read this they can seek me out to make me head of brand strategy:
REDUCE THE COST OF THE WARRANTY
Its crazily expensive and must be the single biggest factor in putting bums on boring porsche seats instead.
The cars are affordable especially with a good pcp but they need to tackle the astounding depreciation from the bottom up by making the cheap ones sensible money to run.
The product is outstanding I've driven 2 570s now and they are really a 250k car that's next level to what anyone else is selling but from the outside looking in it's a marque that is a pretty wobbly used buy. It seems most of the issues that the cars get tend to be niggles. Ive no idea why they can't paint them properly but there are no engines blowing up so why does the warranty need to be many multiples of that for a GT3?
Aftercare again might require a bit of factory backing to get going but I think at 150k retail I would assume covered transport for servicing and warranty work. McLaren Glasgow are obviously very committed to the brand with the amount of stock they hold and the huge investment in the Leeds site. Hopefully things like transporters and loaners may follow.
fridaypassion said:
…...
REDUCE THE COST OF THE WARRANTY
Its crazily expensive and must be the single biggest factor in putting bums on boring porsche seats instead.
…..
Good post, but when I handed over my hard-earned for my 570s back in May 2017, I can assure you the future cost of a warranty didn't even figure in my decision making process at all. It's a factor for some, but when most of the stock sitting on the dealers forecourts is covered by 2 years of warranty for free I don't agree its such a significant factor.REDUCE THE COST OF THE WARRANTY
Its crazily expensive and must be the single biggest factor in putting bums on boring porsche seats instead.
…..
Sad fact is and I hate to admit it top end Sportscar buyers are a dying breed (not talking garage Queen owners here) - so selling on will be an increasing
challenge as the number of potential punters inevitably diminish - not just a McL problem tho' - just get out and drive 'em, whilst we can
It is a great buyer's market at the moment but will it get better? - who knows?
Just like to conclude from my personal experience that the 570S is the most complete performance car I have owned to date -
challenge as the number of potential punters inevitably diminish - not just a McL problem tho' - just get out and drive 'em, whilst we can
It is a great buyer's market at the moment but will it get better? - who knows? Just like to conclude from my personal experience that the 570S is the most complete performance car I have owned to date
-Matty3 said:
….
Just like to conclude from my personal experience that the 570S is the most complete performance car I have owned to date -
Agree 100%. I love following this thread as it reminds me what a fabulous all-rounder the sports series cars are, and reminds me that I'm just not driving mine enough... Just like to conclude from my personal experience that the 570S is the most complete performance car I have owned to date
-Keep the thread going Justin and lets see some more pictures of yours now the paint is perfect again
Edited by The Surveyor on Thursday 5th September 18:02
The Surveyor said:
fridaypassion said:
…...
REDUCE THE COST OF THE WARRANTY
Its crazily expensive and must be the single biggest factor in putting bums on boring porsche seats instead.
…..
Good post, but when I handed over my hard-earned for my 570s back in May 2017, I can assure you the future cost of a warranty didn't even figure in my decision making process at all. It's a factor for some, but when most of the stock sitting on the dealers forecourts is covered by 2 years of warranty for free I don't agree its such a significant factor.REDUCE THE COST OF THE WARRANTY
Its crazily expensive and must be the single biggest factor in putting bums on boring porsche seats instead.
…..
Interestingly, or coincidently.. I got another phonecall from McLaren yesterday afternoon, and and then last night a 'rate your service' type email about my recent experience at Glasgow. Both seemed a massive coincidence following my post yesterday morning.
I had a really good chat with Steven at McGlasgow about a lot of things, the market, stock levels etc. He was saying its not just Mclaren that are in this position, its the whole lot. They've got someone wanting to upgrade from a Ferrari to a Mac and they can't get a single bid on the Ferrari. Similar story with someone wanting to PX a Performante.
I had a bit of a moan saying I was an easy target to sell to but the problem all the dealers have is a lack of people to buy cars. Very Interesting and worrying at the same time. I did offer if there was a car they were keen to sell and a deal to be done I'd be keen. Failing that I'm happy to keep mine and see how the next year goes.
I'll spend a bit of time filling out the Mclaren survey aswell, for what it's worth.
justin220 said:
Good Post Jon, you talk a lot of sense.
Interestingly, or coincidently.. I got another phonecall from McLaren yesterday afternoon, and and then last night a 'rate your service' type email about my recent experience at Glasgow. Both seemed a massive coincidence following my post yesterday morning.
I had a really good chat with Steven at McGlasgow about a lot of things, the market, stock levels etc. He was saying its not just Mclaren that are in this position, its the whole lot. They've got someone wanting to upgrade from a Ferrari to a Mac and they can't get a single bid on the Ferrari. Similar story with someone wanting to PX a Performante.
I had a bit of a moan saying I was an easy target to sell to but the problem all the dealers have is a lack of people to buy cars. Very Interesting and worrying at the same time. I did offer if there was a car they were keen to sell and a deal to be done I'd be keen. Failing that I'm happy to keep mine and see how the next year goes.
I'll spend a bit of time filling out the Mclaren survey aswell, for what it's worth.
It's true, the whole market is struggling.Interestingly, or coincidently.. I got another phonecall from McLaren yesterday afternoon, and and then last night a 'rate your service' type email about my recent experience at Glasgow. Both seemed a massive coincidence following my post yesterday morning.
I had a really good chat with Steven at McGlasgow about a lot of things, the market, stock levels etc. He was saying its not just Mclaren that are in this position, its the whole lot. They've got someone wanting to upgrade from a Ferrari to a Mac and they can't get a single bid on the Ferrari. Similar story with someone wanting to PX a Performante.
I had a bit of a moan saying I was an easy target to sell to but the problem all the dealers have is a lack of people to buy cars. Very Interesting and worrying at the same time. I did offer if there was a car they were keen to sell and a deal to be done I'd be keen. Failing that I'm happy to keep mine and see how the next year goes.
I'll spend a bit of time filling out the Mclaren survey aswell, for what it's worth.
I've friends in various brands and they all tell the same tales be it Ferrari, Aston, McLaren or Porsche.
There are annecdotal tales from them all.
The Surveyor said:
Matty3 said:
….
Just like to conclude from my personal experience that the 570S is the most complete performance car I have owned to date -
Agree 100%. I love following this thread as it reminds me what a fabulous all-rounder the sports series cars are, and reminds me that I'm just not driving mine enough... Just like to conclude from my personal experience that the 570S is the most complete performance car I have owned to date
-Keep the thread going Justin and lets see some more pictures of yours not the paint is perfect again
Will do chaps. I enjoy it. I love an excuse to get the camera/drone out aswell. I'll maybe take the wee man for a spin sometime
The Evora was a brilliant car, one of the best all round cars I've owned. The 540C is giving it a good run for its money though, it misses out slightly without the back seats but the front boot is much better for luggage.
Given the values of the Mac, instead of trading up, I'd like to add something along side it but very hard to justify anything right now with it getting such little use.
The Evora was a brilliant car, one of the best all round cars I've owned. The 540C is giving it a good run for its money though, it misses out slightly without the back seats but the front boot is much better for luggage.
Given the values of the Mac, instead of trading up, I'd like to add something along side it but very hard to justify anything right now with it getting such little use.
Same for me but the other way round Justin. Evora looks to be impossible to give up.
Regarding the market it is industry wide for obvious reasons. Sometimes I get offered meaty stuff to px in or buy and it's a struggle getting undewrites on anything at the moment. I think nearly every deal anyone does has a px at the moment.
I had another look at 570s on the classifieds and you can certainly see that McLaren seem to have brought their used prices in line with indies which is good considering the warranty on older cars. Leeds have a couple of very good cars in at the moment so must resist the urge to go up to the new showroom!
Regarding the market it is industry wide for obvious reasons. Sometimes I get offered meaty stuff to px in or buy and it's a struggle getting undewrites on anything at the moment. I think nearly every deal anyone does has a px at the moment.
I had another look at 570s on the classifieds and you can certainly see that McLaren seem to have brought their used prices in line with indies which is good considering the warranty on older cars. Leeds have a couple of very good cars in at the moment so must resist the urge to go up to the new showroom!
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