Residuals, Man Maths and a 540C
Discussion
I can imagine that getting the paint to 'wrap around' the edge of the panel might not be that easy, and ensure it provides a robust complete seal on the metal. So perhaps there's a trick to it which McLaren overlooked?
fridaypassion said:
No other manufacturers seem to have the problem?
I thought that, and said so on the other thread, however I was corrected, apparently it is a known issue on Jags and Astons too, although perhaps not to the same extent. However some companies get it right, never heard of issues on Japanese cars like the NSX, RX-7 bonnets etc.
fridaypassion said:
No other manufacturers seem to have the problem?
Certainly doesn't seem as wide spread. I've never had it before on any car. Your point on the leading edge is interesting, both my wings and door were all on the leading edge but this OSR panel that wasn't under warranty, wasn't.. it was just above the reflector so quite an odd place for it to start. Definitely not prone to a stone chip there
Matty3 said:
It does seem strange that all the corossion issues seem to be on leading edges rather than in the middle of a panel?
Maybe it is just that whatever method they use terminating the paint edge just isn't adequate? and moisture is tracking from very edge of paintwork as if its not sealed 100%RSbandit said:
Wheelspinning said:
For me its a justified comment; getting the 2 bumper 'cheeks' repainted at the McLaren paintshop in a volcano colour cost over £900, with the paint being around £450 for half a ltr.
As a footnote it was a perfect match, where some have doubts volcano panels can be colour matched to an adjacent panel.
Just to clarify you had bubbling and they repaired it before a respray? As a footnote it was a perfect match, where some have doubts volcano panels can be colour matched to an adjacent panel.
The cheeks were kindly given parking scuffs free of charge that were through the paint.
I removed them and sent them through to the McLaren paintshop where they rubbed, prepped and painted; I did this as it reduced the waiting time from 2 months to 'send them through and we will do them this week'.
Upon refitting it was a perfect match both sides to the rear quarters.
It was maybe a year later the wings and bonnet were determined as requiring replacement during a service; I am a bit ocd about that stuff and I never seen any reaction / corrosion.
Again a perfect match with new wings meeting the doors and it wasn't 'blown' in.
There used to be a bit of Internet chatter the volcano colours were impossible to repair without whole sides etc requiring done.
Not in my experience.
I'd be amazed that if this reaction / corrosion when rubbed down has actually had much of an affect on the panel; to my understanding its more all the layers bubbling due to the curing process etc.
Would be good if someone on here has actually had the panels rubbed down and repaired by someone whom is very good.
What I will add is that the McLaren paintshop has to tell Woking exactly what they are painting as they shall only send the correct amount of paint for the job to be undertaken. The paintshop are not allowed to keep any quantities of the paint and I got a tiny quarter teaspoonful in a tiny tub for touching up only after really twisting the managers arm, even though in the case of the 'cheeks' I had paid for the paint.
justin220 said:
fridaypassion said:
I had a further chat with the painter today that's doing the McLaren repaint I asked him what he thought of the inability of McLaren to paint the cars. Painting Ali is no issue for him he said that the factory cars don't have enough paint not he edge parts hence the areas get chips and just corrode because there isn't enough protection on them in the form of paint.
Surely, surely it can't be something as simple as that.. My car had an entire respray from an official bodyshop. It was stored in the paint shop for roughly 2 months, and then went directly from there - in a covered trailer - to have PPF fitted all over the car.
2 years later, it had paint bubbling on the front wing - and it was at the back of the panel, near where gap is to the drivers door.
It was also bubbling slighty inside the bonnet - on the main bonnet panel, but inside a "hole" from one of the bits that's raised on the inside of the bonnet. I'm quite sure it didn't get chipped in there.
ETA : This is actually the main thing that makes me hesitate when considering another McLaren (although when Spring is closer, I probably still will).
There are people who have had panels replaced - and it happened again.
There are people who had the panels painted by official bodyshops - and it happened again.
There are people who had the panels painted by unofficial bodyshops - and it happened again.
If I had paint bubbling and - once it was fixed, it was really fixed and didn't come back - I'd be happy. But I'm just not convinced that's the case. It's not guaranteed it will happen - but if it does happen, I'm not convinced you can stop it happening again.
I know plenty of people have paint shops who are stating that it's not an issue, and once they've painted a car it won't happen again. But I'm not convinced that all the examples I've seen are by people using paint shops who don't know what they're doing.
Edited by davek_964 on Friday 25th November 13:02
Well, I have to say that McLaren are shooting themselves in the foot with regards to not supplying paint (and parts) more easily and at a reasonable price as it has to have an effect on residuals and their reputation. I do however have to say that my own experience with McLaren client services has been absolutely top-notch and indeed the guys at McLaren Birmingham.
Don't get me wrong I totally understand McLaren need draw the line somewhere, but a month after the warranty expires straight after three other panels have just been replaced seems a bit short to me. It didn't just happen with the space of a month.
More worryingly for us owners is, it's just going to put off new people coming to the used McLaren market. Which won't do residuals any good.
On a different note, I spotted a Lotus Emira out in the wild yesterday, looked absolutely fantastic. Very McLaren/ Ferrari esque
More worryingly for us owners is, it's just going to put off new people coming to the used McLaren market. Which won't do residuals any good.
On a different note, I spotted a Lotus Emira out in the wild yesterday, looked absolutely fantastic. Very McLaren/ Ferrari esque
justin220 said:
Don't get me wrong I totally understand McLaren need draw the line somewhere, but a month after the warranty expires straight after three other panels have just been replaced seems a bit short to me. It didn't just happen with the space of a month.
More worryingly for us owners is, it's just going to put off new people coming to the used McLaren market. Which won't do residuals any good.
On a different note, I spotted a Lotus Emira out in the wild yesterday, looked absolutely fantastic. Very McLaren/ Ferrari esque
The emira isn't in the same league though, sadly.More worryingly for us owners is, it's just going to put off new people coming to the used McLaren market. Which won't do residuals any good.
On a different note, I spotted a Lotus Emira out in the wild yesterday, looked absolutely fantastic. Very McLaren/ Ferrari esque
Matty3 said:
Justin, have really enjoyed this thread. Came from Lotus too.
You complain about residuals but then add to enhance the negativity.. Dont understand?
I'm just being honest Matty, that was the whole reason for this thread.. You're right though, my thoughts have changed in the recent 6-12 months. You complain about residuals but then add to enhance the negativity.. Dont understand?
If McLaren looked after their customers a bit better, cheaper warranty, longer paint guarantee, available paint codes, supported Indies etc and all the rest it would make the brand much stronger. More people would buy, propping up depreciation meaning us owners can move up the McLaren fleet easier.
I agree 100% McLaren is a completely mismanaged brand they should be doing everything possible to make themselves more attractive. It's a short term view they take because they are starved of cash so skimping on warranty stuff/charging extortionate amounts for paint etc might help them slightly weigh their P&L but it's very damaging to them in the longer term project of building a car company.
They are similar to Lotus in this although Lotus are nowhere near as bad. But this is part of the reason the Emira hasn't caught on in a huge way. Over the years Lotus had built a slightly less than desirable reputation for service/reliability.
They are similar to Lotus in this although Lotus are nowhere near as bad. But this is part of the reason the Emira hasn't caught on in a huge way. Over the years Lotus had built a slightly less than desirable reputation for service/reliability.
Great Post Justin, gives us wannabe buyers an insight of what to look out for, if it wasn’t for posts like this a new buyer could walk in completely blind folded and regret the day he clapped eyes on his pride and joy to be which in my opinion is not what car ownership is about ( especially if your ploughing over £100K of your own hard earned cash in to it ). Cars with ongoing issues will always be hit with higher depreciation than similar type cars without, the cars with issues will become less desirable even if they are the better machine. Certainly not my idea of fun having ongoing issues that the Manufacturer is sticking its head in the sand about, pretty darn disgraceful in this day and age tbh !
Matty3 said:
I get that and totally agree with your comments, have really appreciated this thread from day one.
I do wonder what it will take to change McHOffice ways.. they do seem totally intransigent to their obvious shortcomings.
They're a young supercar company - look at residuals on Italian or British supercars in the 70/80s, the only interest to the manufacturer were the wealthy new car buyers, the elite with cash to burn. Sales were low because the people with the cash were rarer.I do wonder what it will take to change McHOffice ways.. they do seem totally intransigent to their obvious shortcomings.
Times move on, PHP and finance has changed the game, today's buyers don't all have a spare £200k down the back of the sofa to splash on a toy they don't really care about the resale value of. There's a reason Ferrari showrooms have "cost per month" as the biggest number on the showroom ticket.
And McL's attitude is hitting residuals, be it driven by greed or short term necessity. There will be a people out there thinking about a McL, we've been eyeing them for about 3 years but my wife thinks I'd worry about getting big bills (although I coped with a Maserati). The fact is I'd cope with running costs/wear and tear, especially with the extended warranty, but not with having to spend ££££(£) because the manufacturer doesn't know how to apply paint. Simply replacing a panel with another potenially faulty one under warranty doesn't solve it, it just pushes the problem down to road until the warranty has expired.
We could get an R8 if we wanted sensible fun, but whilst they are a nice place to sit, they're not special, the same goes for the other German marques. There's a whole host of EVs coming along with real world speed like many a supercar, so the selling point is about making you feel special,. So if you want to spend circa £90k on something relatively recent and feel special, you're looking at Cali, Gallardo, and Aston or Bentley if you can stomach the depreciation. But they are special cars, the dealers are pleasant, the cars generally work.
But you stop feeling special if the moment the warranty expires they ask you for more than the cost of your first car to rectify the sort of finish and reliability problems that even FIAT managed to master in the 1980s.
Having said all that, if Ernie dropped a big win on me next week I'd still get a 570GT, and if the paint blistered I'd rub it back and get some Hammerite special metals primer and the nearest top colour they do, because it sounds like I'd be better waiting until I want to sell it before getting it done by McL
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