720s Below 200K Already

720s Below 200K Already

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Discussion

garyhun

25,993 posts

166 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
jimmyslr said:
av185 said:
Calculator said:
Lovely spec on that 488
Varicose vein blue is the killer. With the tan.
I think it’s rather a lovely combo but I agree prices going one way. Good job we aren’t all the same.
I think it looks gorgeous.

MDL111

3,129 posts

115 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
garyhun said:
jimmyslr said:
av185 said:
Calculator said:
Lovely spec on that 488
Varicose vein blue is the killer. With the tan.
I think it’s rather a lovely combo but I agree prices going one way. Good job we aren’t all the same.
I think it looks gorgeous.
Agreed, one of the best specs I have seen so far. Maybe without the black roof, although works quite well

gunner

654 posts

168 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
I love so much about the cars McLaren build BUT one critical point is overriding and glaringly obvious, particularly at times of economic stress. McLaren simply don't stand behind their product and buy back enough used cars from their customers ,to the extent they need to, in order to protect residuals, or even to establish a minimum, base case used valuation. This means they are always beholden to the distressed seller prepared to swallow a very bitter pill because that seller requires cash urgently and subsequently creates a new 'low' in the secondary market.

I know of a 720s which sold at £155k in the trade just before Christmas (actually it was £160k ultimately although the trader held £5k back because the car had a chipped windscreen which McLaren had failed to fix in a timely manner). The car listed at £278k, was beautifully specced, had done 2500 miles give or take and had been on the market SOR for a little while. McLaren dealerships had, as I understand it, long since declined to buy it back for stock because they are carrying too many cars as it is. The car was keenly priced by the purchasing dealer who sold it immediately for a nice profit. The problem is that the trade knows about this. At that price unsurprisingly there were plenty of bids and a relatively easy turn to be had. I am not for one second suggesting that this is a new benchmark or what a good 720s is now worth. However by refusing to buy back their cars ,even from distressed sellers at big discounts, McLaren abrogate any responsibility for the value of their cars in the used market and ultimately discourage new car buyers hence discounting and the downward valuation spiral.

Of course this was a very specific set of circumstances and there are always outlying trades in any secondary market which don't necessarily influence valuations longer term. But McLaren themselves seem to me to be playing a very dangerous game with what is still a very nascent brand. It's a shame because in my personal experience the cars are truly fantastic (best in class I would argue) but unless they get a handle on values ,which are always dictated by the secondary rather than the primary market, I fear they will blow the brand's credibility regardless of how fabulous the product is.

Smacko

9 posts

13 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
cayman-black said:
_Leg_ said:
Luxury model, which apparently nobody wants and awful colour.

The one posted buy rich looks a better bet.
Awful colour?

I’m looking at this very closely at the minute, close to pulling the trigger. So much car for the money. External colour looks good, not too much of a fan of the interior grey though.

Luxury spec not the one to go for then?

garyhun

25,993 posts

166 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
Smacko said:
Awful colour?

I’m looking at this very closely at the minute, close to pulling the trigger. So much car for the money. External colour looks good, not too much of a fan of the interior grey though.

Luxury spec not the one to go for then?
I really like the external colour but think alcantara interiors work best in a McLaren.
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RobDown

3,113 posts

66 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
gunner said:
I love so much about the cars McLaren build BUT one critical point is overriding and glaringly obvious, particularly at times of economic stress. McLaren simply don't stand behind their product and buy back enough used cars from their customers ,to the extent they need to, in order to protect residuals, or even to establish a minimum, base case used valuation. This means they are always beholden to the distressed seller prepared to swallow a very bitter pill because that seller requires cash urgently and subsequently creates a new 'low' in the secondary market.

I know of a 720s which sold at £155k in the trade just before Christmas (actually it was £160k ultimately although the trader held £5k back because the car had a chipped windscreen which McLaren had failed to fix in a timely manner). The car listed at £278k, was beautifully specced, had done 2500 miles give or take and had been on the market SOR for a little while. McLaren dealerships had, as I understand it, long since declined to buy it back for stock because they are carrying too many cars as it is. The car was keenly priced by the purchasing dealer who sold it immediately for a nice profit. The problem is that the trade knows about this. At that price unsurprisingly there were plenty of bids and a relatively easy turn to be had. I am not for one second suggesting that this is a new benchmark or what a good 720s is now worth. However by refusing to buy back their cars ,even from distressed sellers at big discounts, McLaren abrogate any responsibility for the value of their cars in the used market and ultimately discourage new car buyers hence discounting and the downward valuation spiral.

Of course this was a very specific set of circumstances and there are always outlying trades in any secondary market which don't necessarily influence valuations longer term. But McLaren themselves seem to me to be playing a very dangerous game with what is still a very nascent brand. It's a shame because in my personal experience the cars are truly fantastic (best in class I would argue) but unless they get a handle on values ,which are always dictated by the secondary rather than the primary market, I fear they will blow the brand's credibility regardless of how fabulous the product is.
Unfortunately I hear this a lot from friends with McLarens including 2 who have been unable to sell 650s for 12 months. Good news is that it means there are bargains to be had, just buyer beware that don’t expect to be able to see easily

f1ten

1,770 posts

91 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
I too think that spec is gorgeous. Blue scozia is a super rare historic colour and no chance anyone will pull up next to you in london in one the same !

MDL111 said:
Agreed, one of the best specs I have seen so far. Maybe without the black roof, although works quite well

Taffy66

1,954 posts

40 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
f1ten said:
I too think that spec is gorgeous. Blue scozia is a super rare historic colour and no chance anyone will pull up next to you in london in one the same !

MDL111 said:
Agreed, one of the best specs I have seen so far. Maybe without the black roof, although works quite well
I considered that 488 as i personally loved the colour combo however in the end bought a Grigio Silverstone 458..The trouble with that particular 488 is the lack of Carbon fiber inside which is a saleability disaster unfortunately..Like it or loathe it but C/F is essential to sell on a Ferrari or McLaren..

f1ten

1,770 posts

91 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
Gunner raises good points although the older cars ie. out of warranty are also the conundrum. I looked at a 12c and 650s but have been long since scared off by mechanic friends and horror stories I’ve read, 1 particular guy has been waiting on mclaren to fix his 570 for 3 months. Meanwhile he is paying monthly for the car. Meanwhile he also knows prices are falling and he wants out of it ! What a position to be stuck in...
my old Ferrari f430 certainly isn’t cheap to run And like all supercars the worry of a big bill is always there. I decided to buy an older super car because I don’t like depreciation. I’m sure it’s value is going down but I’m confident that as long as there are people wanting supercars then Ferrari has buyers because of brand... and generally they are comparatively well built.

A general statement is that all supercars are now overpriced by manufacturers getting greedy and finance being taken. When one can have a 2nd hand 488 for 180,000 why would you not think actually buying a 720s at 60k more is very high risk. As good a car as it is, it’s over priced and the market is small.

cayman-black

7,528 posts

154 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
Good post Gunner and very interesting.

Smacko if you like the colour that's great .

From all my reading on here, most don't seem to like the luxury pack cars and they do always seem to be cheaper.

Others here know far more than me though.

MDL111

3,129 posts

115 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
f1ten said:
I too think that spec is gorgeous. Blue scozia is a super rare historic colour and no chance anyone will pull up next to you in london in one the same !

MDL111 said:
Agreed, one of the best specs I have seen so far. Maybe without the black roof, although works quite well
I considered that 488 as i personally loved the colour combo however in the end bought a Grigio Silverstone 458..The trouble with that particular 488 is the lack of Carbon fiber inside which is a saleability disaster unfortunately..Like it or loathe it but C/F is essential to sell on a Ferrari or McLaren..
I really don’t like it much and looked for a while to find an FF without the carbon stuff inside. On a track day car it is ok (although still would prefer without), but on a normal one I much prefer without. It does not save any weight and is plasticky imo - Aluminium plus leather or Alcantara feels and looks so much better to me

I know the majority want it, so for resale it is indeed important

cayman-black

7,528 posts

154 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
I considered that 488 as i personally loved the colour combo however in the end bought a Grigio Silverstone 458..The trouble with that particular 488 is the lack of Carbon fiber inside which is a saleability disaster unfortunately..Like it or loathe it but C/F is essential to sell on a Ferrari or McLaren..
Fully agree with this,i really like this car but with no carbon driving environment really lets it down. It's the first thing i noticed.

drcarrera

505 posts

163 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
Daft question perhaps but could internal CF not be retro-fitted? If it's so difficult to sell without, even if it cost a fair bit to do it may still be worth it. Personally the lack of it wouldn't bother me at all (until resale time!).

isaldiri

4,244 posts

106 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
drcarrera said:
Daft question perhaps but could internal CF not be retro-fitted? If it's so difficult to sell without, even if it cost a fair bit to do it may still be worth it. Personally the lack of it wouldn't bother me at all (until resale time!).
Yes it can almost always be retrofitted, just a question of cost or waiting for someone who isn't fussed by plasticky tat in the interior wink

br d

6,597 posts

164 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
drcarrera said:
Daft question perhaps but could internal CF not be retro-fitted? If it's so difficult to sell without, even if it cost a fair bit to do it may still be worth it. Personally the lack of it wouldn't bother me at all (until resale time!).
I don't think it can. I've always been advised when buying any marque that the internal CF is build time only. All the external stuff can be replaced normally.

isaldiri

4,244 posts

106 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
br d said:
I don't think it can. I've always been advised when buying any marque that the internal CF is build time only. All the external stuff can be replaced normally.
You definitely can replace internal trim pieces on a Mclaren....

av185

7,641 posts

65 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
Taffy66 said:
I considered that 488 as i personally loved the colour combo however in the end bought a Grigio Silverstone 458..The trouble with that particular 488 is the lack of Carbon fiber inside which is a saleability disaster unfortunately..Like it or loathe it but C/F is essential to sell on a Ferrari or McLaren..
Agree with you on colour choice Taffy Grigio one of my favourites this is my old 458... Grigio Titanium I think.

Had the carbon interior and yes it is essential for resale. Far better than the c.f. in Porsches too imo although I always spec it in GT cars as the standard Porsche trim looks naff imo.


GT4RS

1,422 posts

135 months

Sunday 6th January
quotequote all
gunner said:
I love so much about the cars McLaren build BUT one critical point is overriding and glaringly obvious, particularly at times of economic stress. McLaren simply don't stand behind their product and buy back enough used cars from their customers ,to the extent they need to, in order to protect residuals, or even to establish a minimum, base case used valuation. This means they are always beholden to the distressed seller prepared to swallow a very bitter pill because that seller requires cash urgently and subsequently creates a new 'low' in the secondary market.

I know of a 720s which sold at £155k in the trade just before Christmas (actually it was £160k ultimately although the trader held £5k back because the car had a chipped windscreen which McLaren had failed to fix in a timely manner). The car listed at £278k, was beautifully specced, had done 2500 miles give or take and had been on the market SOR for a little while. McLaren dealerships had, as I understand it, long since declined to buy it back for stock because they are carrying too many cars as it is. The car was keenly priced by the purchasing dealer who sold it immediately for a nice profit. The problem is that the trade knows about this. At that price unsurprisingly there were plenty of bids and a relatively easy turn to be had. I am not for one second suggesting that this is a new benchmark or what a good 720s is now worth. However by refusing to buy back their cars ,even from distressed sellers at big discounts, McLaren abrogate any responsibility for the value of their cars in the used market and ultimately discourage new car buyers hence discounting and the downward valuation spiral.

Of course this was a very specific set of circumstances and there are always outlying trades in any secondary market which don't necessarily influence valuations longer term. But McLaren themselves seem to me to be playing a very dangerous game with what is still a very nascent brand. It's a shame because in my personal experience the cars are truly fantastic (best in class I would argue) but unless they get a handle on values ,which are always dictated by the secondary rather than the primary market, I fear they will blow the brand's credibility regardless of how fabulous the product is.
Ive heard Mclaren dealers won’t buy back 12c and are very careful on 650s cars, but to not buy back a 720s is strange.

Wouldn’t shock me if this starts to happen with other brands as well if the market keeps falling.

If they can’t steal it they won’t want it!

RSbandit

435 posts

70 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
I really like what McLaren have done in such a short space of time, their cars are beautifully engineered and I really want to run one at some point. I think by not supporting their product in the second hand market it's gonna affect the brand value and that will eventually feed back up into lower sales of new cars which will be terminal for the company. Seems that top management are way too short term focused, these problems need to be addressed and soon.

12pack

660 posts

106 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
I don't think the latest issues are just McLaren, though. Many discussions in various forums about the current prices. Looks like the market for "supercars" has dropped put the bottom while the world holds its breath to see what direction Brexit, stock markets take. My business supplies into the Auto market. If things are resolved by March there will be a pick up - or at least that's what we are counting on.

In the meantime, its a good time to buy.