Lotus and McLaren ,- I didnt expect that!

Lotus and McLaren ,- I didnt expect that!

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Discussion

12pack

659 posts

106 months

Friday 8th February
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bordseye said:
Interestingly, Aston when replacing the mechanised manual with a slushbox were asked by customers to make it a bit less smooth with perceptable gear changes.
Well, as a longtime AM owner, I hope you’re not really buying that line from the sales guys. The fact is that the AM SSII and SSIII are just crap. They shift slower than I can manually shift my V12 Vantage. And I’m pretty good at double declutching myself, but I certainly don’t yearn for going back to that. Perhaps this will change, but with the Mac SSG now I find I’m doing a better job of getting the shifts done at the right moment, whereas with the V12V manual while I was rev matching, I could miss the downshift point.

Guys, are you really saying cars that do a quarter in the 10s are too fast to be useable? I must be in the wong forum.

justin220

3,859 posts

142 months

Friday 8th February
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Agreed. The pace and power of the Mac are what make them so exciting to drive.

I'd love an Exige to go along side mine but I wonder if I would actually use it.

bordseye

Original Poster:

1,344 posts

130 months

Saturday 9th February
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12pack said:
Guys, are you really saying cars that do a quarter in the 10s are too fast to be useable? I must be in the wong forum.
Maybe you are. "a quarter in the 10s" is American drag strip terminology - it goes with long straight wide roads, and not with the windey B roads of the sort we have here. You can likely find a striaght quarter mile to do your 10 secs in - here you wont.

Rocketreid

11 posts

10 months

Saturday 9th February
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Having owned a number of Exiges and now in a Cup 430 i must admit to hankering after a Big Mac 650s ( see what I did )

As a regular track user you get the chance to exploit the cars full potential . An Exige 430 and for that matter an Evora 430 lose nothing to 570s on track except a little on fast straights such as at the Silverstone GP circuit .

A 650s or even a 570s ( 675 are a bit rich ) can be had a few years old for not hugely more money than a Lotus but the upkeep of a Mac I imagine is a completely different scenario .

Lotus’ s can be driven hard with very little expensive maintenance unlike Mac’s I guess . As you see so many low mileage Macs for sale then it would appear many people are owning but not necessarily driving them . These sorts of cars are honed and designed to go on track so a pity more people don’t try it!

12pack

659 posts

106 months

Saturday 9th February
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bordseye said:
Maybe you are. "a quarter in the 10s" is American drag strip terminology - it goes with long straight wide roads, and not with the windey B roads of the sort we have here. You can likely find a striaght quarter mile to do your 10 secs in - here you wont.
Well, just back from my exhilarating morning drive. Windy but dry roads up here in the North of England this morning. I had absolutely no problem staying on the loud pedal for many moments and stepping the tail out in sport handling mode on empty sweepers. Can’t wait for my upcoming track day.

OP, I suggest you take a real drive. Sure I agree with @isaldiri stepping from a say a 650s to 720s is diminishing returns, and it would be better to dial in some more feel, but they are all on an entirely different level for pace than a Lotus, usably so on a quiet road.

And I was using the quarter mile terminology to quantify acceleration as 0-60 is really quite inadequate.
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justin220

3,859 posts

142 months

Saturday 9th February
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Had my 540 out for about 50 miles or so this morning.

Even driving through a small town is an event. Thumbs up, pictures being taken.

Then on a country road I've got the power to overtake pretty much everything. The steering is so direct. Powertrain in track mode adds a bit of drama. I'd like a bit more noise though

Brilliant car.

johnwilliams77

5,099 posts

41 months

Saturday 9th February
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justin220 said:
Had my 540 out for about 50 miles or so this morning.

Even driving through a small town is an event. Thumbs up, pictures being taken.

Then on a country road I've got the power to overtake pretty much everything. The steering is so direct. Powertrain in track mode adds a bit of drama. I'd like a bit more noise though

Brilliant car.
So like a Lotus with less steering feel? (Joking, I am jealous)

justin220

3,859 posts

142 months

Saturday 9th February
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Yeah, although with a lot more pace biggrin

Seriously, loved my Evora. I'd happily buy another.

Rocketreid

11 posts

10 months

Sunday 10th February
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Well more pace until you come to the twisty stuff and then the Lotus just goes away !!!

justin220

3,859 posts

142 months

Sunday 10th February
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Rocketreid said:
Well more pace until you come to the twisty stuff and then the Lotus just goes away !!!
hehe you've clearly never driven one then.

Also, have you seen Lotus lap times, they struggle to keep up with hot hatches these days. Engaging yes, fast, no.

12pack

659 posts

106 months

Sunday 10th February
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Rocketreid said:
Well more pace until you come to the twisty stuff and then the Lotus just goes away !!!
Indeed in a Big Mac [1] you wouldn’t see where the Lotus went - the rear wing blocks the rear view mirror.

References
1.@Rocketried Pistonheads-Gassing Station-Supercars-Mclaren

johnwilliams77

5,099 posts

41 months

Sunday 10th February
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justin220 said:
hehe you've clearly never driven one then.

Also, have you seen Lotus lap times, they struggle to keep up with hot hatches these days. Engaging yes, fast, no.
Both exiges and evoras can do 56-59secs at knockhill depending on driver. I don't think many hot hatches can manage that.

justin220

3,859 posts

142 months

Sunday 10th February
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Where as the Exige V6 is slower than a Golf GTI round the nurburgring.

For all the compromises a Lotus has, they should be leagues ahead.

I'm a huge Lotus fan BTW.

Rocketreid

11 posts

10 months

Sunday 10th February
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( Where as the Exige V6 is slower than a Golf GTI round the nurburgring.

For all the compromises a Lotus has, they should be leagues ahead.

I'm a huge Lotus fan BTW. )

More clearly is the fact you’ve presumably never driven a Cup 430.

A lot of difference between a V6s and a Cup 430 and yes driven both a 650s and 570s and if you note what i said in the twisty stuff .

No amount of power can make up for being 300 kg lighter in the bends.

If you’ve got a 650s or for that matter a 570s come and try !!!

giveitfish

3,140 posts

152 months

Sunday 10th February
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justin220 said:
Where as the Exige V6 is slower than a Golf GTI round the nurburgring.
If you mean the "Volkswagen conducted test, special Nürburgring set-up" Golf GTI Clubsport S, then that's also faster than Sport Auto managed in a 997 GT3 RS so it's hardly a standard spec road car.

I've not seen any Golfs passing GT3's on the trackdays myself. I have however seen a 12C pass me on a country road while in my Elise. I was flat out, it passed me at warp speed in a shower of stones lifted by its diffuser and then aero-braked into the corner ahead of me. I nearly binned it at a fraction of its cornering speed so no, I don't think a Lotus would lose a McLaren in the twisties hehe

Bikeracer1098

484 posts

126 months

Sunday 10th February
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Rocketreid said:
Having owned a number of Exiges and now in a Cup 430 i must admit to hankering after a Big Mac 650s ( see what I did )

As a regular track user you get the chance to exploit the cars full potential . An Exige 430 and for that matter an Evora 430 lose nothing to 570s on track except a little on fast straights such as at the Silverstone GP circuit .

A 650s or even a 570s ( 675 are a bit rich ) can be had a few years old for not hugely more money than a Lotus but the upkeep of a Mac I imagine is a completely different scenario .

Lotus’ s can be driven hard with very little expensive maintenance unlike Mac’s I guess . As you see so many low mileage Macs for sale then it would appear many people are owning but not necessarily driving them . These sorts of cars are honed and designed to go on track so a pity more people don’t try it!
The price tag of around £110k for a Exige 430 Cup is an absolute joke.

Not a great Road Car and with regards to a track Car, far superior cars available.

It just doesn’t serve a purpose at that price point, unless you are a hardcore Lotus fan.

If you feel the need for some serious fun on track start riding Superbikes on track, make driving cars on track rather boring.

Edited by Bikeracer1098 on Monday 11th February 00:02

Bikeracer1098

484 posts

126 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
Rocketreid said:
No amount of power can make up for being 300 kg lighter in the bends.

If you’ve got a 650s or for that matter a 570s come and try !!!
What does make the difference “in the bends” is the aero and active aero.

How does your Lotus compare to a 675LT or 991.2 GT3RS on track?

isaldiri

4,235 posts

106 months

Monday 11th February
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Bikeracer1098 said:
Rocketreid said:
No amount of power can make up for being 300 kg lighter in the bends.

If you’ve got a 650s or for that matter a 570s come and try !!!
What does make the difference “in the bends” is the aero and active aero.

How does your Lotus compare to a 675LT or 991.2 GT3RS on track?
What aero? The downforce on most road cars is insignificant and particularly so at road speeds. Maybe it might be relevant on a P1 or Senna. Absolutely not a 12c/650/570 and nowhere near what the difference of a couple of hundred kg makes for cornering speeds.

johnwilliams77

5,099 posts

41 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
justin220 said:
Where as the Exige V6 is slower than a Golf GTI round the nurburgring.

For all the compromises a Lotus has, they should be leagues ahead.

I'm a huge Lotus fan BTW.
They are on every trackday I’ve been on, including all over England. As the other poster says above, your logic is that a GT3 is slow too hehe

12pack

659 posts

106 months

Monday 11th February
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Sure weight makes a difference while cornering and braking, and that's why the Macs have more rubber and ceramic to help compensate.

But tracks have straights too, and no matter how much marginally more speed you can carry into the corner in the smaller, ligher car, you'll still get blown off to a much larger extent post-apex.

And on the open road, its just no comparison.