McLaren receives Β£300m.......

McLaren receives Β£300m.......

Author
Discussion

Escy

2,324 posts

103 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
Is it just me that thinks if McLaren went bust, the values of the used cars would actually firm up?

I can't believe the over supply, strange business model. One chassis, one engine and about 40 models of car, all essentially the same thing.

Lee Jones Jnr

430 posts

124 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
Escy said:
Is it just me that thinks if McLaren went bust, the values of the used cars would actually firm up?
TVRs are doing ok so perhaps so

Escy

2,324 posts

103 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
And Noble

Project 4

23 posts

26 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
Escy said:
And Noble
Noble have gone bust?

Ferruccio

1,137 posts

73 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
Escy said:
Is it just me that thinks if McLaren went bust, the values of the used cars would actually firm up?

I can't believe the over supply, strange business model. One chassis, one engine and about 40 models of car, all essentially the same thing.
Becomes all about parts.

Escy

2,324 posts

103 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
I thought they had when Lee Noble left things and it dried up until the M600 came out. To be fair with the amount of M600's sold they may as well pack up.

I guess the point I wanted to make is they had one successful car the M12/M400 and the values of these are really strong now. Supply and demand, McLaren has over supplied and kind of killed itself. By all accounts the cars are brilliant but you've got to really want one to be able to stomach the depreciation. If Mclaren go bust I predict the values would firm up as the cars themselves stand up from a design and engineering point of view.

Cheib

18,539 posts

129 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
jhoneyball said:
Would that include the car production facility or "just" the HQ?
They already have debt in the form of bonds and a “Super Senior Bank Facility” the latter will definitely have security and the former may well do. Likely that the manufacturing facility is already pledged.

MclaesLaren

35 posts

47 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
Ron Dennis seems to be winner. He got 275M £ for his shares.

Maybee that is enough to buy back the automotive part? After corona.

Ferruccio

1,137 posts

73 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
MclaesLaren said:
Ron Dennis seems to be winner. He got 275M £ for his shares.

Maybee that is enough to buy back the automotive part? After corona.
The equity is likely worthless.
It’s providing the working capital required and dealing with the debt that’s the issue.

Cheib

18,539 posts

129 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
MclaesLaren said:
Ron Dennis seems to be winner. He got 275M £ for his shares.

Maybee that is enough to buy back the automotive part? After corona.
He really is. Many things have been said about him....never heard him called stupid though!

hunter 66

3,088 posts

174 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
And Tesla is $800 a share even now , sadly another good English design with mediocre business acumen . Should have come in as the future , been EV from the start , not just using the old formula and trying to do it better . Now post CV many others follow the path to oblivion along the ICE road . Yes I love my iCE car that does 5 mpg , but things change

MclaesLaren

35 posts

47 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
Ferruccio said:
The equity is likely worthless.
It’s providing the working capital required and dealing with the debt that’s the issue.
Well. If McLaren goes belly up, debt will vanish.
Then if he buys back the automotive part its a very much smaller part than ML in total.
Wisely managed with the customer in focus it can work much better.

flemke

22,357 posts

191 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
MclaesLaren said:
Ferruccio said:
The equity is likely worthless.
It’s providing the working capital required and dealing with the debt that’s the issue.
Well. If McLaren goes belly up, debt will vanish.
Then if he buys back the automotive part its a very much smaller part than ML in total.
Wisely managed with the customer in focus it can work much better.
Debt would not 'vanish'. Creditors would have a claim on the physical and intangible assets, which would be sold to the highest bidder(s). Mumtalakat is a major creditor as well as the majority shareholder. With many hundreds of millions invested already, it would be surprising if they were to throw in the towel now. A restructuring - maybe.

MclaesLaren

35 posts

47 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all
flemke said:
Debt would not 'vanish'. Creditors would have a claim on the physical and intangible assets, which would be sold to the highest bidder(s). Mumtalakat is a major creditor as well as the majority shareholder. With many hundreds of millions invested already, it would be surprising if they were to throw in the towel now. A restructuring - maybe.
You are correct. I more or less ment that the outcome for Ron Dennis migth be he could gather the licensing, plant, brand name etc in a package good enough for manufacturing road cars. He could move the factory to a smaller premise as well. Norman Foster would disagree, but for business and cashflow it migth be a better roadmap.

leef44

704 posts

107 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
MclaesLaren said:
flemke said:
Debt would not 'vanish'. Creditors would have a claim on the physical and intangible assets, which would be sold to the highest bidder(s). Mumtalakat is a major creditor as well as the majority shareholder. With many hundreds of millions invested already, it would be surprising if they were to throw in the towel now. A restructuring - maybe.
You are correct. I more or less ment that the outcome for Ron Dennis migth be he could gather the licensing, plant, brand name etc in a package good enough for manufacturing road cars. He could move the factory to a smaller premise as well. Norman Foster would disagree, but for business and cashflow it migth be a better roadmap.
I reckon you may be on to something there.

McLaren is very personal to him and I can see him doing something like this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38000198

In this article, it explains his downfall and how he was pushed out of the company which he had once owned and built up great success in. He fell out with his long standing business partner. His challenging personality probably had a hand in that.

His "OCD" personality would suggest that he probably would have wanted to slowly build the car brand with prestige image and limited supply. The other partners probably felt this is not conducive to their pockets and wanted to go aggressive to gain quicker returns at the risk of over supply.

Project 4

23 posts

26 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
leef44 said:
I reckon you may be on to something there.

McLaren is very personal to him and I can see him doing something like this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38000198

In this article, it explains his downfall and how he was pushed out of the company which he had once owned and built up great success in. He fell out with his long standing business partner. His challenging personality probably had a hand in that.

His "OCD" personality would suggest that he probably would have wanted to slowly build the car brand with prestige image and limited supply. The other partners probably felt this is not conducive to their pockets and wanted to go aggressive to gain quicker returns at the risk of over supply.
Great article, thanks for sharing! smile

I love and can relate to Ron's pursuit of perfection, and whilst he unquestionably has Papaya orange blood running through his veins, I can't help thinking that as he is 72 years old, would that the right direction now for McLaren?

MclaesLaren

35 posts

47 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
Project 4 said:
Great article, thanks for sharing! smile

I love and can relate to Ron's pursuit of perfection, and whilst he unquestionably has Papaya orange blood running through his veins, I can't help thinking that as he is 72 years old, would that the right direction now for McLaren?
With age you have wisdom. Koenigsegg AB is 125 persons. I guess automotive will need maybee 200 staff to sell, build and develop cars. A nice little enterprise for Mr. Dennis to run.

leef44

704 posts

107 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
Project 4 said:
leef44 said:
I reckon you may be on to something there.

McLaren is very personal to him and I can see him doing something like this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38000198

In this article, it explains his downfall and how he was pushed out of the company which he had once owned and built up great success in. He fell out with his long standing business partner. His challenging personality probably had a hand in that.

His "OCD" personality would suggest that he probably would have wanted to slowly build the car brand with prestige image and limited supply. The other partners probably felt this is not conducive to their pockets and wanted to go aggressive to gain quicker returns at the risk of over supply.
Great article, thanks for sharing! smile

I love and can relate to Ron's pursuit of perfection, and whilst he unquestionably has Papaya orange blood running through his veins, I can't help thinking that as he is 72 years old, would that the right direction now for McLaren?
Many great business leaders find a new lease of life in their 70's. With their experience they are able to achieve their dreams by turning a company round.

I personally would not like to work for a perfectionist like him but I admire this quality of his. The cleanliness in his factory and not having anything touching the factory floor (easier to see if something has been dropped) so everything is suspended.

It is his strive for perfection which has driven the high discipline culture in McLaren's formula one success.

andrew

8,994 posts

146 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
leef44 said:
Project 4 said:
leef44 said:
I reckon you may be on to something there.

McLaren is very personal to him and I can see him doing something like this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38000198

In this article, it explains his downfall and how he was pushed out of the company which he had once owned and built up great success in. He fell out with his long standing business partner. His challenging personality probably had a hand in that.

His "OCD" personality would suggest that he probably would have wanted to slowly build the car brand with prestige image and limited supply. The other partners probably felt this is not conducive to their pockets and wanted to go aggressive to gain quicker returns at the risk of over supply.
Great article, thanks for sharing! smile

I love and can relate to Ron's pursuit of perfection, and whilst he unquestionably has Papaya orange blood running through his veins, I can't help thinking that as he is 72 years old, would that the right direction now for McLaren?
Many great business leaders find a new lease of life in their 70's. With their experience they are able to achieve their dreams by turning a company round.

I personally would not like to work for a perfectionist like him but I admire this quality of his. The cleanliness in his factory and not having anything touching the factory floor (easier to see if something has been dropped) so everything is suspended.

It is his strive for perfection which has driven the high discipline culture in McLaren's formula one success.
the last time i visited mtc, the windows needed a good cleaning
that would never arise under ron's watch

650spider

942 posts

125 months

Saturday 23rd May
quotequote all
flemke said:
MclaesLaren said:
Ferruccio said:
The equity is likely worthless.
It’s providing the working capital required and dealing with the debt that’s the issue.
Well. If McLaren goes belly up, debt will vanish.
Then if he buys back the automotive part its a very much smaller part than ML in total.
Wisely managed with the customer in focus it can work much better.
Debt would not 'vanish'. Creditors would have a claim on the physical and intangible assets, which would be sold to the highest bidder(s). Mumtalakat is a major creditor as well as the majority shareholder. With many hundreds of millions invested already, it would be surprising if they were to throw in the towel now. A restructuring - maybe.
I am with Flemke on this.

McLaren shall be around for as long as we cut about in cars.

Maybe with its current owners, or as mentioned, via a restructuring.

I think it is safe to assume Ron Dennis shall of contacted some serious backers in the event there is an opportunity that arises..no way can anyone whom was pushed out of a lifetimes work in the manor he was and not look to get it back.

Whether that opportunity arises is another story.