720S Rejection
Discussion
davek_964 said:
One single instance of coolant hoses rubbing together, and now it's a 'significant design issue', could have been fuel lines etc etc? FFS.
It's more likely that the hose wasn't clipped in place properly.
I sympathise with the OP but some of this is getting blown way out of proportion.
I don’t think it’s the fault, or the wrong parts supply,it’s the way they’ve dealt with it and seemingly have done so little to value someone who has recently spent circa 200 grand or so on one of their products. That is not the way to build brand loyalty, or enhance an already fragile reputation in that area.It's more likely that the hose wasn't clipped in place properly.
I sympathise with the OP but some of this is getting blown way out of proportion.
It’s a shame, cos it’s so easy to get bloody right.
Based on my recent experience with a very troublesome brand new Cayenne, McLaren aren't alone in offering sub-optimal customer service..Porsches are not the brand it used to be and are progressively getting more unreliable to the point they no longer deserve to keep their very long standing reputation of building top quality cars.
Imo rejection is a non starter but was it reasonable for the cat to be fixed before lockdown and the answer is YES!
So who is to blame for the months of delay and how much is the OP out of pocket on payments and depreciation?
That is what he should be asking for from whoever f
ked this up!
So who is to blame for the months of delay and how much is the OP out of pocket on payments and depreciation?
That is what he should be asking for from whoever f
ked this up!Taffy66 said:
Based on my recent experience with a very troublesome brand new Cayenne, McLaren aren't alone in offering sub-optimal customer service..Porsches are not the brand it used to be and are progressively getting more unreliable to the point they no longer deserve to keep their very long standing reputation of building top quality cars.
Porsche have had issues for a long time. M96 engines, and even back in 964 days with exploding DMF.McLaren have clearly made mistakes here with the wrong parts. However, it's wrong to assume this is the general level of their customer service. Mine has been exceptional, and even the usual anti-McLaren posters would struggle to convince anybody that the other holy grail brands would have done the same.
davek_964 said:
Porsche have had issues for a long time. M96 engines, and even back in 964 days with exploding DMF.
McLaren have clearly made mistakes here with the wrong parts. However, it's wrong to assume this is the general level of their customer service. Mine has been exceptional, and even the usual anti-McLaren posters would struggle to convince anybody that the other holy grail brands would have done the same.
As a current Porsche and Ferrari owner i agree with you especially regarding Porsche..Ferrari seem to look after their customers better than Porsche as long as you treat them fairly in return..The Ferrari factory has ultimate power and wield it with a heavy stick but i find the dealer i use great to deal with..Porsche OPCs on the other hand...........McLaren have clearly made mistakes here with the wrong parts. However, it's wrong to assume this is the general level of their customer service. Mine has been exceptional, and even the usual anti-McLaren posters would struggle to convince anybody that the other holy grail brands would have done the same.
Taffy66 said:
Based on my recent experience with a very troublesome brand new Cayenne, McLaren aren't alone in offering sub-optimal customer service..Porsches are not the brand it used to be and are progressively getting more unreliable to the point they no longer deserve to keep their very long standing reputation of building top quality cars.
Taffy I've enjoyed reading some of your posts on the P forum here on PH. Which premium car brands would you say offer the best customer service overall? I've been driving an R8 for the last 6 years (previously a v8, now a gen2 v10) but have had little need to go back to the dealership other than a single breather hose recall which was painless. I service at specialists or DIY; original parts or equivalent are easy to come bydavek_964 said:
One single instance of coolant hoses rubbing together, and now it's a 'significant design issue', could have been fuel lines etc etc? FFS.
It's more likely that the hose wasn't clipped in place properly.
I sympathise with the OP but some of this is getting blown way out of proportion.
It wouldn't be a McLaren post unless someone blew everything out of proportion and its usually by someone who has been blown away by a McLarenIt's more likely that the hose wasn't clipped in place properly.
I sympathise with the OP but some of this is getting blown way out of proportion.
soofsayer said:
sjc said:
Irrespective of the accident, the wrong part was supplied three times resulting in the car getting caught up in the Covid saga, and it taking months.Anyone with a brain at Mclaren could have thought “ This isn’t our customers fault, let’s nip this in the bud and give him a courtesy car, next couple of services FOC or extend his warranty to keep him happy. It’s not rocket science.
But no, they didn’t, and another few potential buyers are put off.
This.But no, they didn’t, and another few potential buyers are put off.
Wrong parts ordered, twice was it? Then lockdown, remember that lockdown in the east started in late January, so supply chains were starting to grind to a halt by mid end of Feb. By March no chance unless in stock already.
Your last comment has struck a cord, just been browsing AT looking at a 650s spider, thought I would come on here and ask about a specific car, and read this thread and thinking what a bad idea that might be.
If I read a thread about a poster whom has an unfortunate accident in a supercar and it took a wee while to repair, and then wrong parts were ordered, I would definitely make a descion that buying that marque would be a really bad idea and make a post as such.
I would probably follow it up with 'i have never had an issue like that with my Lambo etc'.
650spider said:
soofsayer said:
sjc said:
Irrespective of the accident, the wrong part was supplied three times resulting in the car getting caught up in the Covid saga, and it taking months.Anyone with a brain at Mclaren could have thought “ This isn’t our customers fault, let’s nip this in the bud and give him a courtesy car, next couple of services FOC or extend his warranty to keep him happy. It’s not rocket science.
But no, they didn’t, and another few potential buyers are put off.
This.But no, they didn’t, and another few potential buyers are put off.
Wrong parts ordered, twice was it? Then lockdown, remember that lockdown in the east started in late January, so supply chains were starting to grind to a halt by mid end of Feb. By March no chance unless in stock already.
Your last comment has struck a cord, just been browsing AT looking at a 650s spider, thought I would come on here and ask about a specific car, and read this thread and thinking what a bad idea that might be.
If I read a thread about a poster whom has an unfortunate accident in a supercar and it took a wee while to repair, and then wrong parts were ordered, I would definitely make a descion that buying that marque would be a really bad idea and make a post as such.
I would probably follow it up with 'i have never had an issue like that with my Lambo etc'.
For those that are on the fence - I have had a Ferrari ff, huracan perf, evo, 488, db11 to name a few in the past few years.
In my opinion none of the above cars come close to the speed, agility and dynamism of the 720 - plus the doors are epic.
Yes every car has bits and bobs go wrong with it, the current issues I’m going through with my car are not outside the norm for super cars ownership.
What is outside the norm is the disregard shown by McLaren towards a customer. No ownership on resolving issues, no desire on communication and a total burying your head in the sand to problems.
Yes the parts were delivered incorrectly, but as per McLaren themselves they should have reacted faster when they found out they had a issue with their parts.
Overall there isn’t a better car in this price segment imo, and my issues may very well be an isolated incident on the vehicle itself, but I don’t believe the McLaren company itself has been able to build up the support structure to deal with problems when they inevitably occur.
I’m happy I got to experience a McLaren, but after this experience, I would rather get a car that’s 90% as good as the 720s but will be available to me when I need/want it.
So far it’s been off road for a total of 292 days out of 370 since I bought it.
In my opinion none of the above cars come close to the speed, agility and dynamism of the 720 - plus the doors are epic.
Yes every car has bits and bobs go wrong with it, the current issues I’m going through with my car are not outside the norm for super cars ownership.
What is outside the norm is the disregard shown by McLaren towards a customer. No ownership on resolving issues, no desire on communication and a total burying your head in the sand to problems.
Yes the parts were delivered incorrectly, but as per McLaren themselves they should have reacted faster when they found out they had a issue with their parts.
Overall there isn’t a better car in this price segment imo, and my issues may very well be an isolated incident on the vehicle itself, but I don’t believe the McLaren company itself has been able to build up the support structure to deal with problems when they inevitably occur.
I’m happy I got to experience a McLaren, but after this experience, I would rather get a car that’s 90% as good as the 720s but will be available to me when I need/want it.
So far it’s been off road for a total of 292 days out of 370 since I bought it.
rmaGL said:
For those that are on the fence - I have had a Ferrari ff, huracan perf, evo, 488, db11 to name a few in the past few years.
In my opinion none of the above cars come close to the speed, agility and dynamism of the 720 - plus the doors are epic.
Yes every car has bits and bobs go wrong with it, the current issues I’m going through with my car are not outside the norm for super cars ownership.
What is outside the norm is the disregard shown by McLaren towards a customer. No ownership on resolving issues, no desire on communication and a total burying your head in the sand to problems.
Yes the parts were delivered incorrectly, but as per McLaren themselves they should have reacted faster when they found out they had a issue with their parts.
Overall there isn’t a better car in this price segment imo, and my issues may very well be an isolated incident on the vehicle itself, but I don’t believe the McLaren company itself has been able to build up the support structure to deal with problems when they inevitably occur.
I’m happy I got to experience a McLaren, but after this experience, I would rather get a car that’s 90% as good as the 720s but will be available to me when I need/want it.
So far it’s been off road for a total of 292 days out of 370 since I bought it.
I posted further up the page about depreciation and payments, this would be my annoyance and would be looking for who was at fault and looking for redress!In my opinion none of the above cars come close to the speed, agility and dynamism of the 720 - plus the doors are epic.
Yes every car has bits and bobs go wrong with it, the current issues I’m going through with my car are not outside the norm for super cars ownership.
What is outside the norm is the disregard shown by McLaren towards a customer. No ownership on resolving issues, no desire on communication and a total burying your head in the sand to problems.
Yes the parts were delivered incorrectly, but as per McLaren themselves they should have reacted faster when they found out they had a issue with their parts.
Overall there isn’t a better car in this price segment imo, and my issues may very well be an isolated incident on the vehicle itself, but I don’t believe the McLaren company itself has been able to build up the support structure to deal with problems when they inevitably occur.
I’m happy I got to experience a McLaren, but after this experience, I would rather get a car that’s 90% as good as the 720s but will be available to me when I need/want it.
So far it’s been off road for a total of 292 days out of 370 since I bought it.
Anonymous-poster said:
rmaGL said:
For those that are on the fence - I have had a Ferrari ff, huracan perf, evo, 488, db11 to name a few in the past few years.
In my opinion none of the above cars come close to the speed, agility and dynamism of the 720 - plus the doors are epic.
Yes every car has bits and bobs go wrong with it, the current issues I’m going through with my car are not outside the norm for super cars ownership.
What is outside the norm is the disregard shown by McLaren towards a customer. No ownership on resolving issues, no desire on communication and a total burying your head in the sand to problems.
Yes the parts were delivered incorrectly, but as per McLaren themselves they should have reacted faster when they found out they had a issue with their parts.
Overall there isn’t a better car in this price segment imo, and my issues may very well be an isolated incident on the vehicle itself, but I don’t believe the McLaren company itself has been able to build up the support structure to deal with problems when they inevitably occur.
I’m happy I got to experience a McLaren, but after this experience, I would rather get a car that’s 90% as good as the 720s but will be available to me when I need/want it.
So far it’s been off road for a total of 292 days out of 370 since I bought it.
I posted further up the page about depreciation and payments, this would be my annoyance and would be looking for who was at fault and looking for redress!In my opinion none of the above cars come close to the speed, agility and dynamism of the 720 - plus the doors are epic.
Yes every car has bits and bobs go wrong with it, the current issues I’m going through with my car are not outside the norm for super cars ownership.
What is outside the norm is the disregard shown by McLaren towards a customer. No ownership on resolving issues, no desire on communication and a total burying your head in the sand to problems.
Yes the parts were delivered incorrectly, but as per McLaren themselves they should have reacted faster when they found out they had a issue with their parts.
Overall there isn’t a better car in this price segment imo, and my issues may very well be an isolated incident on the vehicle itself, but I don’t believe the McLaren company itself has been able to build up the support structure to deal with problems when they inevitably occur.
I’m happy I got to experience a McLaren, but after this experience, I would rather get a car that’s 90% as good as the 720s but will be available to me when I need/want it.
So far it’s been off road for a total of 292 days out of 370 since I bought it.
sjc said:
650spider said:
soofsayer said:
sjc said:
Irrespective of the accident, the wrong part was supplied three times resulting in the car getting caught up in the Covid saga, and it taking months.Anyone with a brain at Mclaren could have thought “ This isn’t our customers fault, let’s nip this in the bud and give him a courtesy car, next couple of services FOC or extend his warranty to keep him happy. It’s not rocket science.
But no, they didn’t, and another few potential buyers are put off.
This.But no, they didn’t, and another few potential buyers are put off.
Wrong parts ordered, twice was it? Then lockdown, remember that lockdown in the east started in late January, so supply chains were starting to grind to a halt by mid end of Feb. By March no chance unless in stock already.
Your last comment has struck a cord, just been browsing AT looking at a 650s spider, thought I would come on here and ask about a specific car, and read this thread and thinking what a bad idea that might be.
If I read a thread about a poster whom has an unfortunate accident in a supercar and it took a wee while to repair, and then wrong parts were ordered, I would definitely make a descion that buying that marque would be a really bad idea and make a post as such.
I would probably follow it up with 'i have never had an issue like that with my Lambo etc'.
In a nutshell, this has been a run of unlucky events...end of.
If I had been the OP, I would of guessed that the repair of a rear end shunt of a supercar would almost certainly be away for more than 4 weeks being repaired, so i would of ensured the 3rd parties insurers sourced and hired a car of very similar stature, as he was legally entitled to, all as was discussed about 2 pages back; a hire company shall source a 720 if you pushed, as they know the weekly rental will be huge.
It is now going around in circles with the most likely outcome being that it turns into be one of 'those McLaren threads'.
Best of luck OP however you proceed.
davek-964 : Please do explain to me objectively and logically why you so happily and readily discount the possibility of there being a design fault .
Bearing in mind what the OP said , and he has been perfectly clear in what he has written , a design fault is not only a possibility , it seems to be the simplest and most likely explanation for the coolant leak .
Why have you yet again banged on about hose clips , when the OP has specifically said that the problem was caused by 2 pipes rubbing against each other and rupturing , and has specifically written that it was not caused by a loose hose ?
(A) OP has written : ''So update on this car, it’s not just a loose hose, apparently there are 2 hose pipes that have rubbed together and ruptured... looks to be an engine out job. Another few weeks gone by the looks of it ''
(B) davek_964 said:
'' One single instance of coolant hoses rubbing together, and now it's a 'significant design issue', could have been fuel lines etc etc? FFS.
It's more likely that the hose wasn't clipped in place properly. ''
Frankly , to any impartial party reading this thread , the issues of rejection , courtesy cars , delays , PCP payments , and poor service , will pale into insignificance compared to what would appear to some of us as the most likely explanation --- ie that a design fault led to the 2 hoses rubbing against each other , to the point of one or both hoses rupturing .
And yes , if the design principles used by the manufacturer caused 2 coolant hoses to rub against each other , the same design principles could / would also have been applied to other hoses within the car .... simple logic surely ?
And yes again , if it had been fuel hoses or brake hoses instead of coolant hoses , then the end result could have been much more serious ...... surely you agree ?
So davek-964 , please can you , having taken into account what the OP has written , give a logical reason for discounting a design fault out of hand ?
Writing ''FFS'' is all good and well , but it doesn't address the issue under discussion , and neither does talking about hose clips when the OP has specifically written that he has been told ( presumably by the McLaren dealer who examined the car ) that the coolant leak was not due to a loose hose .
It is incredible , that the really important issue , safety , seems to have been lost in the fog . The marque and model variant is irrelevant to this discussion , as it would be equally serious in any vehicle .
Bearing in mind what the OP said , and he has been perfectly clear in what he has written , a design fault is not only a possibility , it seems to be the simplest and most likely explanation for the coolant leak .
Why have you yet again banged on about hose clips , when the OP has specifically said that the problem was caused by 2 pipes rubbing against each other and rupturing , and has specifically written that it was not caused by a loose hose ?
(A) OP has written : ''So update on this car, it’s not just a loose hose, apparently there are 2 hose pipes that have rubbed together and ruptured... looks to be an engine out job. Another few weeks gone by the looks of it ''
(B) davek_964 said:
'' One single instance of coolant hoses rubbing together, and now it's a 'significant design issue', could have been fuel lines etc etc? FFS.
It's more likely that the hose wasn't clipped in place properly. ''
Frankly , to any impartial party reading this thread , the issues of rejection , courtesy cars , delays , PCP payments , and poor service , will pale into insignificance compared to what would appear to some of us as the most likely explanation --- ie that a design fault led to the 2 hoses rubbing against each other , to the point of one or both hoses rupturing .
And yes , if the design principles used by the manufacturer caused 2 coolant hoses to rub against each other , the same design principles could / would also have been applied to other hoses within the car .... simple logic surely ?
And yes again , if it had been fuel hoses or brake hoses instead of coolant hoses , then the end result could have been much more serious ...... surely you agree ?
So davek-964 , please can you , having taken into account what the OP has written , give a logical reason for discounting a design fault out of hand ?
Writing ''FFS'' is all good and well , but it doesn't address the issue under discussion , and neither does talking about hose clips when the OP has specifically written that he has been told ( presumably by the McLaren dealer who examined the car ) that the coolant leak was not due to a loose hose .
It is incredible , that the really important issue , safety , seems to have been lost in the fog . The marque and model variant is irrelevant to this discussion , as it would be equally serious in any vehicle .
Edited by carspath on Saturday 5th September 23:26
Jeez, give it a break man. We went through that crap about the SCC Car Club and you demanding an explanation about the Private Membership, and now you require Dave to "Please do explain to me objectively and logically why you so happily and readily discount the possibility of there being a design fault".
No one has to explain anything to you.
No one has to explain anything to you.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 5th September 23:44
I’m pretty sure they taught verbal reasoning:
“...this is the first time the SM has seen this happen and that McLaren technical were also surprised...”
not seen this issue reported on forums and we know how the internet loves jumping on these types of matters.
If we accept a Design Fault as a fault in the design caused by a mistake in the design phase of car, then it would be more common by now seeing as the 720 has reached the LT stage of its product lifecycle.
“...this is the first time the SM has seen this happen and that McLaren technical were also surprised...”
not seen this issue reported on forums and we know how the internet loves jumping on these types of matters.
If we accept a Design Fault as a fault in the design caused by a mistake in the design phase of car, then it would be more common by now seeing as the 720 has reached the LT stage of its product lifecycle.
MAC720S ... my question to davek-964 stands ... if he has a decent explanation , he will pen an answer , and if he doesn't , then that in itself speaks volumes .
I am sure that he doesn't need you to answer for him .
And I don't think that we need to involve Jesus in this !
Since you bring up the issue of private membership etc , do you see how ridiculous you look trying so hard to be special ?
No self-respecting person would think of portraying themselves in a public arena as being special or exclusive , especially not through the simplistic medium of merely owning a car !!!
I own a car , you own a car .... big deal .
Again , the basic principles of my original argument stand .... i would happily mix with anyone genuinely interested in any car .
If you posted your comments to the wider PH community , can you imagine how it would be viewed ?
Moving back to this topic MAC720S , do you think there is more than a fair chance that the coolant leak was due to a design fault based on the information that the OP has provided us with thus far ?
Do you think that there is a potential safety issue here ?
It would be good to hear your thoughts on these current issues , rather than harping back to a past discussion regarding decency and inclusivity .
Of course it is totally in your hands whether or not you choose to discuss any of these issues , but as a 720S owner it would be good to hear your thoughts , and more importantly the foundations that support those thoughts .
Thoughts without a supporting basis are pretty weak and pointless , and are not enhanced by expressions like ''Jeez '' or ''FFS'' .
I am sure that he doesn't need you to answer for him .
And I don't think that we need to involve Jesus in this !
Since you bring up the issue of private membership etc , do you see how ridiculous you look trying so hard to be special ?
No self-respecting person would think of portraying themselves in a public arena as being special or exclusive , especially not through the simplistic medium of merely owning a car !!!
I own a car , you own a car .... big deal .
Again , the basic principles of my original argument stand .... i would happily mix with anyone genuinely interested in any car .
If you posted your comments to the wider PH community , can you imagine how it would be viewed ?
Moving back to this topic MAC720S , do you think there is more than a fair chance that the coolant leak was due to a design fault based on the information that the OP has provided us with thus far ?
Do you think that there is a potential safety issue here ?
It would be good to hear your thoughts on these current issues , rather than harping back to a past discussion regarding decency and inclusivity .
Of course it is totally in your hands whether or not you choose to discuss any of these issues , but as a 720S owner it would be good to hear your thoughts , and more importantly the foundations that support those thoughts .
Thoughts without a supporting basis are pretty weak and pointless , and are not enhanced by expressions like ''Jeez '' or ''FFS'' .
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