Discussion
davek_964 said:
You must be joking.
You've talked down values of every car - including the 765LT - citing production numbers, blah blah blah. You've pretty much called the buyers of new cars idiots despite the fact that you'd be unable to take advantage of used prices - even on your halo car - if somebody didn't buy new.
How you can question when you've done it - when 90% of your posts are how the 675 will hold value / every other McLaren will be worth less than a pot to piss in within 5 minutes / how vast your business empire is - defies belief.
You're either trolling or slightly delusional.
No need to be rude I've purely expressed an opinion on 765LT production, marketing and values. Its an OPINION, you might have one rightly or wrongly and that is fair enough. Im not arguing with you per se.You've talked down values of every car - including the 765LT - citing production numbers, blah blah blah. You've pretty much called the buyers of new cars idiots despite the fact that you'd be unable to take advantage of used prices - even on your halo car - if somebody didn't buy new.
How you can question when you've done it - when 90% of your posts are how the 675 will hold value / every other McLaren will be worth less than a pot to piss in within 5 minutes / how vast your business empire is - defies belief.
You're either trolling or slightly delusional.
I could bleat on about my radio not working or the TPMS monitor saying my tyres are flat but I think that subject has been done to death.
All supercars have issues.
My ferrari and Lamborghini are not exceptions but I dont need to come on here every 5 mins to tell the world about it.
At same time, until you lit my fuse, I havent criticised you for doing it even if it did bore me to death hearing your daily drivel about keeping or selling the car because of a minor insignificant issue.
Time will tell so in 12 months time let's review 765LT values as thats when I'm more likely to buy despite having a deposit in
I like Mclaren but people need to know the reality of tge brand and show me a post where I say 570S, 650S or 720S will continue to tank
Bet you can't.
BTW 650S is a cracking car and will not drop like a stone. Maybe you will only realise exactly how good it is once its gone
Edited by WilliamWaiver on Tuesday 29th September 13:57
Reviews are very hit and miss for the 765LT. Chris Harris doesn't think its a step on at all, and he is the ONLY one i take note of, Henry Catchpole on the other hand was giggling like a school boy... however i my gut tells me this car could well be frustrating to drive on the road with no locking diff..
I was going to jump on the Mclaren wagon after being a Porsche buyer for years! maybe ill wait till some on road reviews pop up, or wait for second hand cars...
I was going to jump on the Mclaren wagon after being a Porsche buyer for years! maybe ill wait till some on road reviews pop up, or wait for second hand cars...
RBT0 said:
If you’re a Porsche guy then there’re already few McLarens you should look at even before entertaining with 765LT.
Ooops.
Said by an ex Porsche owner btw.
675LT Was/is on the list, however after sitting in an 720s they have nailed the seating position nearly as well as Porsche, hence my liking to 765LT, but no 765LT for me now.. Id of jumped into a 720s way before now, just cant handle the aggro of selling on.Ooops.
Said by an ex Porsche owner btw.
MeisterH said:
675LT Was/is on the list, however after sitting in an 720s they have nailed the seating position nearly as well as Porsche, hence my liking to 765LT, but no 765LT for me now.. Id of jumped into a 720s way before now, just cant handle the aggro of selling on.
Moving them on isn't as bad as it was. Used supply really dried up over summer and Mclaren stopped producing them for a while during lockdown.Bispal said:
650spider said:
WilliamWaiver said:
SSO said:
Not sure I would agree with you. Per discussions I have had with them recently, McLaren is certainly aware of the residual issue and quite concerned with it as it will impact volumes longer term. Not sure they have a solution for it but they certainly now it is a major issue for the majority of buyers.
For me the 675LT has been tge pinnacle for Mclaren and everything has gone downhill since - volumes, build quality, residuals, discounts etc....such a shame as I love the brand and its British as well. Incredibly poorly managed company IMHOThey have shed approx 35% of their value since January, and all listings show they are still reducing in value, albeit slower.
Alistair Bols lists a different one almost every 2-3 weeks, and owners are seeing it as a good time to check out right now, hence the steady appearance of them on the market.
675LT coupes were £185 - £190k in January, I know I bought one in January. They have not dropped 35% of this now, £123,500! In fact they are over £190k and have been for a few months as availability has dried up.
I don't care if they go up or down I'm keeping mine, its the best car I have ever driven and has bags of character. There are only 70 coupes in the UK making them exceedingly rare and should help prop up prices if that's what bothers anyone.
There are only 2 coupes for sale on Autotrader both at over £195k. When I purchased mine there were around 12 for sale. The market has been drying up, there is very little availability. The occasional collector might be selling as many are offloading large chunks of their collections but most owners are keeping long term and the ones for sale are going to long term homes. I know this is there is a very active owners group with over 50% of the UK owners in it.
I also don't know anyone who is selling a 675 to fund a 765 purchase. £190k is a completely different price point to £350k (with options). A 765 will lose £100k in 3 years whereas a 675 may stay static, or lose a bit or gain a bit but you won't lose your shirt, hence their current popularity.
There was not a single spider for sale below £250k until early Feb.
Mid to late March was the first spider to crack the £200k barrier since they began being listed.
The volcano orange one at GC started at £214k in Feb and spiked my interest enough when it dropped to £196k within 5 weeks; and that was a full spec car with every possible bit of carbon Inc wheel arch liners, louvres and 2500miles.
I might annoy people on here with my posts, but i never post anything unless its genuine factual post, a very reasonable opinion, or a McLaren ownership experience.
I do however have little time for posters whom come on here and make out their McLaren is the best model they have ever produced and all the other models lesser; every Mac is a great car from 12c to speed tail, and a privilege to be in the position to own.
I 'get' that you enjoy your 675, but i bet you get no more enjoyment whatsoever than I get out of my 650 spider or any other Mac owner; my guess it will feel the same.
Some posters just don't understand this though.
theRossatron said:
Just a note, everyone is assuming 765 spiders but this hasn't been confirmed or even announced.
If they were smart, they might do what Ferrari do and make the spider versions of their special series cars even more limited.
I have a spec sheet and a deposit in for a spider so its defo going ahead and why wouldn't they If they were smart, they might do what Ferrari do and make the spider versions of their special series cars even more limited.
Would be delighted if they limited numbers but can't see it happening. There is clearly going to be an additional carbon series as well and then a 795HS ....
Biggest concern for me was the volumes but now having watched the reviews I think the 675 LT spider is the better bet.
Too gear video was particularly damning of 765LT whilst saying 675 was better than P1.
Chris Harris review is not particularly complimentary and James Mr JWW has told me he was not blown away with it like he was with the 675 LT.
I'm really disappointed with the feedback but just reaffirms how industry breaking, cutting edge and good the original LT was for 2016.
Sequels are rarely as good as the originals
SSO said:
Not sure I would agree with you. Per discussions I have had with them recently, McLaren is certainly aware of the residual issue and quite concerned with it as it will impact volumes longer term. Not sure they have a solution for it but they certainly now it is a major issue for the majority of buyers.
Mclaren can't help residuals without more and better dealers in more countries. Right now Mclaren is dependent on UK,US (main cities) and the European Central Block, so the cars are being mostly dumped here in these 2 conglomerates because these are quite literally the only places where there are conditions to own one (support wise). You lived in Portugal, small country, not too rich, but plenty of understated exotic car owners and clients, we have/had around 40 Maccas, 0 support or specialists, imported for pure passion, that have to be sent to BARCELONA, not even bloody Madrid, or England for service, if you only had 400k to spend on a car and lived here would you get a Macca or a Ferrari with the great Lisbon Ferrari Dealer? Or a Porsche where you can service it anywhere? These cars after being brought here won't leave because the taxes paid will just make them too expensive to export anywhere.
Like us there are dozens of medium small markets that just by being supported will absorb a lot of the excess from the main countries.
And if Mclaren figures out how to make the next platform more solid in terms of build quality (better plastics would be a great starting point) and have less annoying issues the residuals will improve as will the reputation.
The last iteration of the 720s and the constant improvement of the parts that have been failing to me are a great signal that Mclaren is caring about making their cars better. There are problems that they could just drag out of warranty just by changing the bits for new bafly designed ones, but they are iterating and trying to improve.
Another part if they don't want to expand at this time, is to just be a bit less of a pain in the arse like they where in getting tools, diagnostics, manuals, for mclarens, for a while it seemed they were guarding nuclear bomb designs and codes, any guy trying to venture into Mclaren maintenance would just be minimized and ignored regardless of economic prowness, interest or talent.
If parts and tools are a bit more available they can get more support, still make money and again, drain the mass produced cars from the main markets into the smaller markets that will be more available to soak it as the service support is there.
WCZ said:
I wondered whether they might get it wrong with the 765lt tbh and it seems they have in the journalists eyes,
it's intresting that they absolutely cream themselves at the raw tricky aggressiveness of the f12 tdf yet for some reason don't like it in the mclaren
I have to admit its a very mixed bag of reviews and I did not expect that at all.it's intresting that they absolutely cream themselves at the raw tricky aggressiveness of the f12 tdf yet for some reason don't like it in the mclaren
After all the rave reviews the 675LT got i was sure this would be similar as its 4 years newer and ultimately should be better.
Sadly they are less than blown away with it as they were with the 675LT at the time.
I dont see 765LT s being all sold out in 2 weeks and fetching £100k premiums.
I'm going to be paying under list for the 675LT I get next month but given its 4 years old the residual value is amazing by supercar standards. > 70% on a mega spec MSO car
Apart from speciale and GT3RS what else beats that ?
765 LT won't thats for sure
caminator11 said:
Well said.
Its truly alarming to see someone who has fully sold themselves on the idea of a 675LT being an investment car.
William I'm not sure if you're trying to talk yourself into the upcoming purchase but if the pleasure of your ownership requires the car to retain value you probably do not want either of these cars.
You're not going to realise the car's potential modern classic "Challenge Stradale" value unless you hold onto it for 15 more years - and that is a serious gamble.
We will be deep in a world of EVs and restrictions by that point.
Please also consider what makes a car a classic once it is no longer at the bleeding edge of performance. I would offer that a critical element that all Mclarens miss out on is a characterful power unit and the noise of the 3.8l Ricardo lump is not one that people will be dying to hear when we look back and compare to other modern classic fodder.
All of this is not to win internet points but the relentless value posts are concerning and it looks very much like you're about to get yourself into a situation you don't want to be in.
Well said on the future classic status - we tend to look at the past and project the future but the car as we know it has not changed much since the 50s..look at V12 Ferraris and Lambos - is a Miura that much different to an Aventador given 50 years of evolution? What will cars look like in 50 years from now?Its truly alarming to see someone who has fully sold themselves on the idea of a 675LT being an investment car.
William I'm not sure if you're trying to talk yourself into the upcoming purchase but if the pleasure of your ownership requires the car to retain value you probably do not want either of these cars.
You're not going to realise the car's potential modern classic "Challenge Stradale" value unless you hold onto it for 15 more years - and that is a serious gamble.
We will be deep in a world of EVs and restrictions by that point.
Please also consider what makes a car a classic once it is no longer at the bleeding edge of performance. I would offer that a critical element that all Mclarens miss out on is a characterful power unit and the noise of the 3.8l Ricardo lump is not one that people will be dying to hear when we look back and compare to other modern classic fodder.
All of this is not to win internet points but the relentless value posts are concerning and it looks very much like you're about to get yourself into a situation you don't want to be in.
I actually don’t think you will be able to drive yourself in 30 years from now so where does that leave classic car prices??
Enjoy them now - life is too short
ferdi p said:
Jules360 said:
Don't you guys remember all this tripe when he was RamboLambo ?
I sure do... 
Something doesn't add up …… .
650spider said:
Bispal said:
650spider said:
WilliamWaiver said:
SSO said:
Not sure I would agree with you. Per discussions I have had with them recently, McLaren is certainly aware of the residual issue and quite concerned with it as it will impact volumes longer term. Not sure they have a solution for it but they certainly now it is a major issue for the majority of buyers.
For me the 675LT has been tge pinnacle for Mclaren and everything has gone downhill since - volumes, build quality, residuals, discounts etc....such a shame as I love the brand and its British as well. Incredibly poorly managed company IMHOThey have shed approx 35% of their value since January, and all listings show they are still reducing in value, albeit slower.
Alistair Bols lists a different one almost every 2-3 weeks, and owners are seeing it as a good time to check out right now, hence the steady appearance of them on the market.
675LT coupes were £185 - £190k in January, I know I bought one in January. They have not dropped 35% of this now, £123,500! In fact they are over £190k and have been for a few months as availability has dried up.
I don't care if they go up or down I'm keeping mine, its the best car I have ever driven and has bags of character. There are only 70 coupes in the UK making them exceedingly rare and should help prop up prices if that's what bothers anyone.
There are only 2 coupes for sale on Autotrader both at over £195k. When I purchased mine there were around 12 for sale. The market has been drying up, there is very little availability. The occasional collector might be selling as many are offloading large chunks of their collections but most owners are keeping long term and the ones for sale are going to long term homes. I know this is there is a very active owners group with over 50% of the UK owners in it.
I also don't know anyone who is selling a 675 to fund a 765 purchase. £190k is a completely different price point to £350k (with options). A 765 will lose £100k in 3 years whereas a 675 may stay static, or lose a bit or gain a bit but you won't lose your shirt, hence their current popularity.
There was not a single spider for sale below £250k until early Feb.
Mid to late March was the first spider to crack the £200k barrier since they began being listed.
The volcano orange one at GC started at £214k in Feb and spiked my interest enough when it dropped to £196k within 5 weeks; and that was a full spec car with every possible bit of carbon Inc wheel arch liners, louvres and 2500miles.
I might annoy people on here with my posts, but i never post anything unless its genuine factual post, a very reasonable opinion, or a McLaren ownership experience.
I do however have little time for posters whom come on here and make out their McLaren is the best model they have ever produced and all the other models lesser; every Mac is a great car from 12c to speed tail, and a privilege to be in the position to own.
I 'get' that you enjoy your 675, but i bet you get no more enjoyment whatsoever than I get out of my 650 spider or any other Mac owner; my guess it will feel the same.
Some posters just don't understand this though.
For the record I do get a lot more enjoyment from my 675 than I did from my 12C, which was an awesome car that I owned for 30 months and 15k miles that I thoroughly enjoyed. The 675 is a completely different car though. I have driven quite a few 650's and found them to be a 5-10% improvement on the 12C but again the 675 feels like a totally different car, at least to me. As I said I don't really care what the value is or what other people think, I really like it and have no intention of selling it. Each to their own there is a saddle for every arse, peace out.
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