McLaren refusing to supply independents

McLaren refusing to supply independents

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Discussion

Wheelspinning

36 posts

2 months

Friday 12th November
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Thorney said:
TP321 said:
So what is the cost differential between the Thorney warranty v McLaren warranty?
Details are here:

https://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/mclaren-warran...

But cost is all other models £2850, but 720 is £3150 and 675LT is £3450, these are higher just because parts prices are higher, not that they go wrong more.

McLaren extended warranty range in price on model and age but its from £3400 to £5400 in that sort of range.
Just for clarity on the warranty and the £10k limit; if the owner of the 675 that you just carried out and engine rebuild for circa £20k had your warranty in place, does the owner have to make up the shortfall?

Asking as there is no limit per claim on the McLaren aftermarket warranty.

Thorney

406 posts

232 months

Friday 12th November
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Wheelspinning said:
Just for clarity on the warranty and the £10k limit; if the owner of the 675 that you just carried out and engine rebuild for circa £20k had your warranty in place, does the owner have to make up the shortfall?

Asking as there is no limit per claim on the McLaren aftermarket warranty.
Yes, the £10k per claim is an upper limit but since we've developed the engine rebuilding side we've not yet has an issue that breach the £10k limit at all. Initially cam phasers (the common one) were £11k, now we can do them for £4500, a full top end rebuild (all the cams, all the phasers and the kitchen sink) is about £12k but for that to be needed I'd be amazed (ie unheard of). We've nly had one claim where it breached the £10k, it was before we had developed the engine work and frankly it was covered by us as goodwill anyway (any ran with no oil in it).

Thorney

406 posts

232 months

Friday 12th November
quotequote all
Wheelspinning said:
Just for clarity on the warranty and the £10k limit; if the owner of the 675 that you just carried out and engine rebuild for circa £20k had your warranty in place, does the owner have to make up the shortfall?
Oh and his engine bill was from a rod going through the block after a dealer serviced it 6 miles earlier, not exactly your run of the mill failure.


Edited by Thorney on Friday 12th November 17:42


Edited by Thorney on Friday 12th November 17:42

R8Reece

1,249 posts

61 months

Friday 12th November
quotequote all
Thorney said:
Oh and his engine bill was from a rod going through the block after a dealer serviced it 6 miles earlier, not exactly your run of the mill failure.
Was this preventable then at the service? Genuine question, not trolling.

ghost83

4,709 posts

162 months

Friday 12th November
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Northernboy said:
I’m not, they are refusing to honour mine, so it seems like pretty poor value for £5,500.
Why?

Buster73

4,531 posts

125 months

Thursday 18th November
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Thorney said:
I've been self employed for 20+ years now, I am unemployable!
Great quote there , made me smile and nod my head in agreement.

Desert Dragon

948 posts

56 months

Thursday 18th November
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Incredible Thorny can get a Mac engine rebuilt for £12k. I think Hartech charge the same for rebuilds on an ordinary M97 Porsche choc engines. Porsche specialists don't get out of bed for less than circa £20k on a full mezger turbo or GT3 engine rebuild. Even on an exchange basis these engines are circa £50k nowadays. Is this down to parts prices I can't imagine Mcl being cheaper parts prices or is there a labour disparity between Thorny and what Porsche specialists like Autofarm have been charging for years. £12k seems astonishing value by comparison.

Thorney

406 posts

232 months

Thursday 18th November
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Desert Dragon said:
Incredible Thorny can get a Mac engine rebuilt for £12k. I think Hartech charge the same for rebuilds on an ordinary M97 Porsche choc engines. Porsche specialists don't get out of bed for less than circa £20k on a full mezger turbo or GT3 engine rebuild. Even on an exchange basis these engines are circa £50k nowadays. Is this down to parts prices I can't imagine Mcl being cheaper parts prices or is there a labour disparity between Thorny and what Porsche specialists like Autofarm have been charging for years. £12k seems astonishing value by comparison.
That's a for a complete top end rebuild, cams, phasers etc, the bottom ends are nigh on bullet proof and we've only ever had to rebuild them in the event of the engines being run with little or no oil. A compete engine rebuild (top and bottom end) is £28k depending on the engine. For example cranks etc are available for the 3.8 (all models) but not for the 4.0 engines so if a 4.0 let's go (we have one here at the moment) the only alternative is a new engine - £48k

It's only the top ends that need rebuilding really and even them it's only in the event of being run with low oil.

Monkeylegend

22,349 posts

203 months

Thursday 18th November
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Thorney said:
That's a for a complete top end rebuild, cams, phasers etc, the bottom ends are nigh on bullet proof and we've only ever had to rebuild them in the event of the engines being run with little or no oil. A compete engine rebuild (top and bottom end) is £28k depending on the engine. For example cranks etc are available for the 3.8 (all models) but not for the 4.0 engines so if a 4.0 let's go (we have one here at the moment) the only alternative is a new engine - £48k

It's only the top ends that need rebuilding really and even them it's only in the event of being run with low oil.
I would imagine very few of these engines are high mileage when they let go?

Is there an inherent issue with McLaren engines?

Thorney

406 posts

232 months

Thursday 18th November
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Monkeylegend said:
I would imagine very few of these engines are high mileage when they let go?

Is there an inherent issue with McLaren engines?
No, the inherent issue is that they need their oil level checking properly and dealers didn't give any advice when selling them (dry sump system, needs to be done via the dash) so most wear is down to that.

Bottom end damage is the same but more dramatic, rod through the block was zero oil and crank was very low and also run hard when cold.

The engines themselves if properly looked after are 100%

Crazy4557

540 posts

166 months

Thursday 18th November
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Thorney said:
No, the inherent issue is that they need their oil level checking properly and dealers didn't give any advice when selling them (dry sump system, needs to be done via the dash) so most wear is down to that.

Bottom end damage is the same but more dramatic, rod through the block was zero oil and crank was very low and also run hard when cold.

The engines themselves if properly looked after are 100%
Are there any common symptoms of engines that are run low on oil apart from the blindingly obvious? Noisy tappets etc

Thorney

406 posts

232 months

Thursday 18th November
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Crazy4557 said:
Are there any common symptoms of engines that are run low on oil apart from the blindingly obvious? Noisy tappets etc
We actually did a video on what to look for but its so hard to determine the different noises from the engine and what is bad and what is fine on a video.

They all rattle a little on start up as they build oil pressure, but the rattle should go away quickly leaving a nice engine tick, a rattle on cold start that goes away only after it drops off cold start is a good sign of upper engine wear as well, although it could just be solenoids, its a tough one really as we will know within seconds what it is but a video is hard to show it.

With the 720 we have at the moment the poor owner had three garages (including a dealer) all give him conflicting advice as to what it was and all wanted engine out to confirm, we diagnosed it on the recovery truck before we even unloaded it, I guess its just an experienced ear.

Crazy4557

540 posts

166 months

Thursday 18th November
quotequote all
Thorney said:
We actually did a video on what to look for but its so hard to determine the different noises from the engine and what is bad and what is fine on a video.

They all rattle a little on start up as they build oil pressure, but the rattle should go away quickly leaving a nice engine tick, a rattle on cold start that goes away only after it drops off cold start is a good sign of upper engine wear as well, although it could just be solenoids, its a tough one really as we will know within seconds what it is but a video is hard to show it.

With the 720 we have at the moment the poor owner had three garages (including a dealer) all give him conflicting advice as to what it was and all wanted engine out to confirm, we diagnosed it on the recovery truck before we even unloaded it, I guess its just an experienced ear.
Glad you mentioned rattle on start that goes quickly is OK, I was worried my engine might be in trouble as it rattled a bit after cold start but quickly disappears. Only just started doing this, could this be the colder weather?

Ferruccio

1,677 posts

91 months

Friday 19th November
quotequote all
Thorney said:
Crazy4557 said:
Are there any common symptoms of engines that are run low on oil apart from the blindingly obvious? Noisy tappets etc
We actually did a video on what to look for but its so hard to determine the different noises from the engine and what is bad and what is fine on a video.

They all rattle a little on start up as they build oil pressure, but the rattle should go away quickly leaving a nice engine tick, a rattle on cold start that goes away only after it drops off cold start is a good sign of upper engine wear as well, although it could just be solenoids, its a tough one really as we will know within seconds what it is but a video is hard to show it.

With the 720 we have at the moment the poor owner had three garages (including a dealer) all give him conflicting advice as to what it was and all wanted engine out to confirm, we diagnosed it on the recovery truck before we even unloaded it, I guess its just an experienced ear.
That’s exactly why I find the obsession that some have with using only concession dealers rather odd.
It’s actually about finding the right mechanic - someone who has the knowledge and experience to get it right and do the job on the car that you want as the owner.
When you find someone like that, it helps so much with the ownership experience.

Thorney

406 posts

232 months

Friday 19th November
quotequote all
Crazy4557 said:
Glad you mentioned rattle on start that goes quickly is OK, I was worried my engine might be in trouble as it rattled a bit after cold start but quickly disappears. Only just started doing this, could this be the colder weather?
Colder weather will make the oil less compliant of course, but check your oil level regularly (we own 2 McLarens and both are checked weekly) and you should be fine.

Desert Dragon

948 posts

56 months

Friday 19th November
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Do you find you 720s and 12c actually need a top up John on a weekly basis? I have a few dry sump cars and they use between 0.8 and 1 litre every 600 to 1000 miles i.e. per month. Topping them up monthly (3 of them) is a chore but I do it religiously as manufacturers both told me at delivery they will use up to 1 litre of oil every month and do like a drop of oil. Sounds like you're checking the oil every 200-300 miles? Paranoia or good practice?

Thorney

406 posts

232 months

Friday 19th November
quotequote all
Desert Dragon said:
Do you find you 720s and 12c actually need a top up John on a weekly basis? I have a few dry sump cars and they use between 0.8 and 1 litre every 600 to 1000 miles i.e. per month. Topping them up monthly (3 of them) is a chore but I do it religiously as manufacturers both told me at delivery they will use up to 1 litre of oil every month and do like a drop of oil. Sounds like you're checking the oil every 200-300 miles? Paranoia or good practice?
No, they shouldn't need topping up at all really, but we check religiously. Paranoia? Quite possibly, but for the time it takes its hardly heartbreaking.

Desert Dragon

948 posts

56 months

Friday 19th November
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I find amazing how many owners drive without oil. My wife would have no oil in her car and no engine for sure. Good to know thanks.

Thorney

406 posts

232 months

Friday 19th November
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We had one 720 owner come in (was just passing and he had an eml on) we checked his oil and still couldn't get it to minimum after 1.5 litres added, we advised the car was collected on a transporter and not driven.

Dealer sales person told him that the engine was "sealed" and never needed checking.

Crazy4557

540 posts

166 months

Friday 19th November
quotequote all
Thorney said:
Colder weather will make the oil less compliant of course, but check your oil level regularly (we own 2 McLarens and both are checked weekly) and you should be fine.
2 years -11.5k miles and never needed a drop, one trackday at Silverstone and it uses a fair bit and needed topping up. Must be the first car for many years I've had to add oil to. so I will be checking more often now rather than every 6 months.