Anyone have an outlook for old Sports Series range?

Anyone have an outlook for old Sports Series range?

Author
Discussion

dng992

Original Poster:

52 posts

9 months

Sunday 14th August
quotequote all
Looking at getting a 570s anytime from Sept - Dec - I am in no rush

How do people see the market holding up for used cars specifically the sports series type range

My perception is - clearly the used car market is softening a bit right now...with winter period coming...new yearly reg plates (this is a factor?)..and then the doom mongering particularly in the UK economy = Im hoping to pick up a nice bargain

justin220

4,913 posts

188 months

Sunday 14th August
quotequote all
I think they will hold well where they are.

No real new cars cars coming out, I'm not including Artura here as it's significantly more expensive, reasonably bad press, and seems to be taking an age to arrive.

I also think they are a relative bargain, what else out there can you get for circa £90k? Almost nothing comparable. There is only so low they can go. What would really help is McLaren sorting out the aftercare and warranty costs. That's what's prohibitive to most people moving into the brand.


Gibbo205

3,035 posts

191 months

Sunday 14th August
quotequote all
If there gonna be a further dip or softening expect it around Jan/Feb 2023 and the outlook for the rest of 2023
Will be clearer then but prices could soften as they gone up around 10-15k in past 18 months so maybe 5-10k off of course used supercar market is unknown prices could keep climbing but some have softened recently whereas others keep climbing.

MDL111

6,535 posts

161 months

Sunday 14th August
quotequote all
I don’t have an opinion on the sports series cars (to me they look like a Relative bargain). I am negative on the overall market though given inflation, rising rates and general economic outlook. I think people will refocus on yielding assets going forward given the rising rates environment.
Put my Scuderia up for sale a couple of months ago - so far I still own it I believe (at least the dealer hasn’t told me otherwise). I haven’t checked, but think he reduced the price once already.
Buy with a view to hold long term and the value is less relevant anyway - more about the enjoyment you get out of ownership
Good luck

Edit: my car is for sale in Germany, not the UK

Puzzles

522 posts

95 months

Sunday 14th August
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I can’t see them dropping too much, I agree they are a relative bargain.

DevonPaul

867 posts

121 months

Sunday 14th August
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As mentioned above, aftercare is the key. If they can keep on top of that and the cars are fairly reliable, then they will hold fast and should recover. But if there are weak points and the spares run dry, then their appeal will diminish.

On PH today is a feature on Supercars for every budget. On there are Honda NSX, Maserati Gransport (the cheapest on the list), TVR Cerbera, Jag XJ220, Noble M12, etc.

Apart from the Jag, the others were as cheap or cheaper than the Maserati 7 or 8 years ago, and even the Jag was about 1/3 of the current price. Not because the Maser isn't good, it is a great car to drive, I know because I had one for 6 years. But when you can't get parts to replace common failures without paying an arm and a leg for a used one, when the price of a clutch doubles over the Xmas closure, then the shine of ownership doesn't last long.

I do fancy a 570GT, they have hovered, dipped, recovered, but unlike others I think the sort of people with the money to buy and run these toys aren't going to be too troubled by finding an extra £600/month to heat the house. My issue is my mate has just bought a 720 smile

RSbandit

1,979 posts

116 months

Sunday 14th August
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Hard to see how any of them go much below £80k given what’s on offer performance and looks wise. Running costs are a big thing tho you won’t have much change out of £6k if you factor in the mcl warranty, servicing, tax and insurance and that’s not accounting for consumable items and fuel. Seem to be a few decent indies but more needed as that will really help on the older models.

Streetbeat

433 posts

60 months

Sunday 14th August
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Judging by the few organised events i have attended this year, latest being today, i would concur with comments above, if someone can afford to drop £90-£100k on a car, they arent going to be too troubled with a few extra quid thoughout the year, they have been extremely busy.

Whilst some might have taken their bounce back loans and whatever else the gov handed out during covid and jumped on the supercar thing, they will be a drop in the ocean if they "need" to get out quickly compared to people who havent streched their budgets.

P.s I have had one for coming up to a year and half, fantastic cars, you wont be dissapointed, even if they do hold firm.

Am43

205 posts

67 months

Sunday 14th August
quotequote all
RSbandit said:
Hard to see how any of them go much below £80k given what’s on offer performance and looks wise. Running costs are a big thing tho you won’t have much change out of £6k if you factor in the mcl warranty, servicing, tax and insurance and that’s not accounting for consumable items and fuel. Seem to be a few decent indies but more needed as that will really help on the older models.
I agree, I can’t see any dipping under 80k. Servicing costs are similar to my m3. It’s just the warranty cost that bumps the yearly figure right up.
At sub 100k there is nothing really to compare them too

samoht

4,017 posts

130 months

Monday 15th August
quotequote all
I concur that the Sports Series are fab to drive (based on a few days experience) and really good value at their current price.

However I think there's a chance external factors could see them become even better value in the next six months or so.

MDL111 said:
I am negative on the overall market though given inflation, rising rates and general economic outlook.
I'm under the impression that a significant fraction of supercar purchases are financed. If interest rates rise by 5% from last year's 0.1%, that's an extra 5% a year, or ~£400 extra a month if borrowing £95k

That feels like it would reduce the pool of buyers somewhat, pushing down values. Now existing owners are coming out of their deal with less equity, and new finance deals have to assume a lower final value so the monthlies go up again. If more loans then go bad, then that puts still more on the monthly payments for everyone else.

I may however be overestimating the extent to which these cars are financed, or the impact that more expensive finance would have on buyers.


I also have a sense that Sports Series prices have in fact softened lately, at least at the bottom end of the market. Until recently the cheapest on the market was a black 570S at Motorhub (of course), for £85k. In July I spotted a couple of cars cheaper, the lowest being a private sale at £83.5k. Today the bottom of the market is a 540C for £77k at GVE, and a 570S private sale at £80k. I'm also seeing prices being reduced, McLaren cut a VO 540C from £97k to £92k asking, a couple of others lately with 'reduced' or similar in the description.

None of this is definitive, I've not done a proper analysis just keeping an eye on what's for sale and noticing the asking prices. And as a counterpoint, a very nice Volcano Red 570GT spec'd with ceramics and the best, lightest wheels came up at McBrum at £106k and gained a 'deposit taken' within a few days.

Anyway could just be a blip, or could be a softening where the cars with the 'right' spec are still selling, but the less desired ones have to offer a bigger discount to attract a buyer.


Personally, I have no problem seeing the Sports Series as good value at current prices. I don't mind if I buy and they stay solid, or if they fall and then I buy. The only problem is if I buy one and then they fall markedly! But that's always the risk.

Streetbeat

433 posts

60 months

Monday 15th August
quotequote all
samoht said:
I'm under the impression that a significant fraction of supercar purchases are financed. If interest rates rise by 5% from last year's 0.1%, that's an extra 5% a year, or ~£400 extra a month if borrowing £95k

as a counterpoint, a very nice Volcano Red 570GT spec'd with ceramics and the best, lightest wheels came up at McBrum at £106k and gained a 'deposit taken' within a few days.

Anyway could just be a blip, or could be a softening where the cars with the 'right' spec are still selling, but the less desired ones have to offer a bigger discount to attract a buyer.
To get £95k finance on a car you are going to have to be earning a pretty decent wage, i am sure someone far more intelligent than me will be able to work it out. So £400 extra a month shouldnt be a problem but maybe not paletable.

Nail/head, good specs will always sell quickly at good money, base specs will always sit unless priced right to start.

Purso

801 posts

86 months

Tuesday 16th August
quotequote all
servicing isnt crazy money, comparable with "lesser cars" the only thing that is more expensive is the warranty which is circa £1500 extra over ferrari lambo etc, when you factor in purchase price the additional warranty cost is swallowed up and then some. You also have to factor in the growing independent sector Thorney/V engineering/renn works who are all high-quality specialists. Warranty is an option that isn't necessary if you use the car regularly. *Yes coming from a biased owner

samoht

4,017 posts

130 months

Tuesday 6th September
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JayEmm tips the 570S as one of the 'great cars likely to depreciate hard', basically because
- two years ago they were about the same price as a 12C, now they've risen ~25% such that they're more aligned with the 650S, and he expects them to fall back again.
- lots of people will be looking to move on from their Sports Series to something new soon, and the low entry price / high running costs combination will lead to a fairly high turnover of cars, bringing more cars to market.
- bottom line, he says the 650S has a better ride and a better engine, so is better value (and hence a better long term bet).

https://youtu.be/49wVqH6mCm8?t=1377

On the 'general market trend' side, Chris Harris has called the top of the market https://collectingcars.com/stories/a-general-marke...


I haven't seen any further softening of asking prices on AT or PH.

Auction prices can often be interesting - this 570S on CC was bid up to £71,700 (so £76k in real cost to the buyer) but didn't make its reserve.
It looks like a decently specced car (lift, soft-close, the lightest(?) wheels, sports exhaust, 10 months Mc warranty) but high mileage at 37k, and not sure how popular black is.

BlackR8

407 posts

61 months

Tuesday 6th September
quotequote all
samoht said:
JayEmm tips the 570S as one of the 'great cars likely to depreciate hard', basically because
- two years ago they were about the same price as a 12C, now they've risen ~25% such that they're more aligned with the 650S, and he expects them to fall back again.
- lots of people will be looking to move on from their Sports Series to something new soon, and the low entry price / high running costs combination will lead to a fairly high turnover of cars, bringing more cars to market.
- bottom line, he says the 650S has a better ride and a better engine, so is better value (and hence a better long term bet).

https://youtu.be/49wVqH6mCm8?t=1377

On the 'general market trend' side, Chris Harris has called the top of the market https://collectingcars.com/stories/a-general-marke...


I haven't seen any further softening of asking prices on AT or PH.

Auction prices can often be interesting - this 570S on CC was bid up to £71,700 (so £76k in real cost to the buyer) but didn't make its reserve.
It looks like a decently specced car (lift, soft-close, the lightest(?) wheels, sports exhaust, 10 months Mc warranty) but high mileage at 37k, and not sure how popular black is.
Surprised that this didn't sell as £76k seems a fair price given there are many others for sale with a lot less miles for only a few k more.

Streetbeat

433 posts

60 months

Wednesday 7th September
quotequote all
samoht said:
JayEmm tips the 570S as one of the 'great cars likely to depreciate hard', basically because
- two years ago they were about the same price as a 12C, now they've risen ~25% such that they're more aligned with the 650S, and he expects them to fall back again.
- lots of people will be looking to move on from their Sports Series to something new soon, and the low entry price / high running costs combination will lead to a fairly high turnover of cars, bringing more cars to market.
- bottom line, he says the 650S has a better ride and a better engine, so is better value (and hence a better long term bet).

https://youtu.be/49wVqH6mCm8?t=1377

On the 'general market trend' side, Chris Harris has called the top of the market https://collectingcars.com/stories/a-general-marke...


I haven't seen any further softening of asking prices on AT or PH.

Auction prices can often be interesting - this 570S on CC was bid up to £71,700 (so £76k in real cost to the buyer) but didn't make its reserve.
It looks like a decently specced car (lift, soft-close, the lightest(?) wheels, sports exhaust, 10 months Mc warranty) but high mileage at 37k, and not sure how popular black is.
Well if Jayemm said that it must be true..........his channel is clickbait only.

Re the 650s, his mate owns one so.......i dont doubt for some it is the better car, but, as with a lot of buyers inc myself last year, the 650s is older, more expensive to warranty (main dealer) and personally prefer the interior/bit lighter/monocell 2/looks of the 570s, so i dont think its that clear cut.

Its that time of year where prices always take a dip, i guess by spring next year we will see where the market is going.

samoht

4,017 posts

130 months

Wednesday 7th September
quotequote all
Streetbeat said:
Well if Jayemm said that it must be true..........his channel is clickbait only.

Re the 650s, his mate owns one so.......i dont doubt for some it is the better car, but, as with a lot of buyers inc myself last year, the 650s is older, more expensive to warranty (main dealer) and personally prefer the interior/bit lighter/monocell 2/looks of the 570s, so i dont think its that clear cut.

Its that time of year where prices always take a dip, i guess by spring next year we will see where the market is going.
Yeah, I certainly see JayEmm as someone who has 'attracted an audience' with his McLaren content wink and I don't view his predictions as necessarily correct; just that when a widely viewed YTer is giving an opinion on the topic of the thread, it's worth being aware of.

The 570/650 debate will run and run, arguments on both sides; I think the perception that the newer car is lower maintenance will support values in the market. This from Andrew Frankel last year makes a good case for it too https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/series...

OnionBhaji99

59 posts

120 months

Wednesday 7th September
quotequote all
A 570s sold on cc yesterday for £68,500 + fee?

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2016-mclaren-5...

These seem a great buy at those sort of prices.

dpollard

49 posts

219 months

Wednesday 7th September
quotequote all
Thats v cheap - especially if they are paying for the duties to bring it back to the Mainland from being Jersey registered, but I'd imagine there is 7K of auction fees on that.

Highish mileage and not with much warranty / some bodywork issues, but still 20k cheaper than whats in the PH classifieds. Which is what I've just paid...

tyrrell

1,637 posts

192 months

Wednesday 7th September
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Yes hearing aide beige, along with no carbon interior pack a very rare car indeed.

justin220

4,913 posts

188 months

Wednesday 7th September
quotequote all
Surely the seller would have sold it for more through WBAC/Motorway etc?!