Where to spend £90k?

[BlackR8]

If the main purpose is driving the car on the road and not spending time on the track or drag strips I guess what matters is which car you personally prefer to drive upto 50-70mph which is the max speed you are likely to do 90% of the time.

[davek_964]

BlackR8 said:

If the main purpose is driving the car on the road and not spending time on the track or drag strips I guess what matters is which car you personally prefer to drive upto 50-70mph which is the max speed you are likely to do 90% of the time.

Nah - I don't spend 90% of my time in town.

[BlackR8]

davek_964 said:

BlackR8 said:

If the main purpose is driving the car on the road and not spending time on the track or drag strips I guess what matters is which car you personally prefer to drive upto 50-70mph which is the max speed you are likely to do 90% of the time.

Nah - I don't spend 90% of my time in town.

private roads I hope!

[12pack]

Pflanzgarten said:

The rear always jars to my eyes on the 12C/650 too, like some weird 1980s louvred effort on a 21st century body.

.

Or like a 2023 $2.2M SP3.....

[akadk]

Can someone overlay the torque curves ? That’s where you feel the difference

So a 620PS 12C does feel quite noticably different on the road to a 650PS 650S due to more torque coming in lower in the rev band.

[12pack]

akadk said:

Can someone overlay the torque curves ? That’s where you feel the difference

So a 620PS 12C does feel quite noticably different on the road to a 650PS 650S due to more torque coming in lower in the rev band.

Never got a chance to drive a 12C when I bought the 650 (after a back-to-back drive vs 570), but these are the things I had found.

https://www.dragtimes.com/blog/mclaren-650s-vs-mp4...
650 torque and BHP curves are similar with the 650 coming on earlier (torque) and peaking higher (BHP). Actual difference measured was 52 BHP.

The evo article is also an interesting read:
https://www.evo.co.uk/mclaren/650s/20574/mclaren-6...


"As well as being more dynamically composed than the 12C, there are other areas where the 650S is superior. While both iterations of the twin-turbo V8 are thrillingly inertia- free and rev-hungry, the 650’s has a stronger mid-range pick-up and so gets the car accelerating sooner. It’s also less vibratory and sweeter-revving, and smoother at idle, too. Ambling into town, both cars get heads turning before they heave into view – they have that supercar sound quality, that depth, that unmistakably potent growl. The 650S, with its optional sports exhaust, has a superb extra layer of sound, a hint of traditional but race-bred V8 that adds greatly to the sound quality, like good seasoning enhances flavour. There’s more turbo chuff in the 12C, but perhaps it’s just more audible because there’s less tailpipe content."

Edited by 12pack on Tuesday 14th March 15:27

[Streetbeat]

12pack said:

I have to agree and per my earlier post and link provided - so do others. I chose a 650 over a 570 for precisely this reason. The 570 didn't actually feel more exciting than the V12 Vantage I came to the test in - but the 650 did.

I'm not saying this to justify the car I own, but saying why I chose the car I did.

And I actually prefer the uncluttered, well-integrated rear/wing. The 570 is a bit too rococo - with and odd-bits-cobbled-together kind of look. All subjective, of course.

Here's my original post from way back when
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...


FWIW here are lap times with the same driver on a very familiar for me WIllow Springs track (these days I'm on Oulton Park)



And this is from Car and Driver's Lightning Lap leaderboard - again same driver, same track



Of course, not night and day, but certainly enough to say my butt dyno worked

Edited by 12pack on Tuesday 14th March 13:10

Odd that its roughly an equal time over a 1.25 lap and a 2.45 lap at around 1.5 secs, not night and day as you say and not arguing the 650s isnt faster, but significant enough to notice or justify choosing over a 570s, not for me as an 7/10ths driver!

And curiously, did all the back to back drivers put the 570s into esc dynamic, im sure you will all say yes

Edited by Streetbeat on Tuesday 14th March 15:48

[macdeb]

Suffice to say from briefly going through comments, the best cars are the ones we own. I really don't get the beating up of one McLaren over another tbh.

[Davyt]

macdeb said:

Suffice to say from briefly going through comments, the best cars are the ones we own. I really don't get the beating up of one McLaren over another tbh.

Just a bit of Banter, I’m sure nobody means anything by it all ??

[12pack]

OP is certainly spoiled for choice….

[BlackR8]

Slightly off topic, but looking at the Sport Series range it looks like there is a good £20k+ gap between the cheapest coupe and equivalent spider variant which feels fairly big at circa 20%. Has this always been the case on the 570s range and for those who own either variant is such a big premium for the spider justified?

[samoht]

BlackR8 said:

Slightly off topic, but looking at the Sport Series range it looks like there is a good £20k+ gap between the cheapest coupe and equivalent spider variant which feels fairly big at circa 20%. Has this always been the case on the 570s range and for those who own either variant is such a big premium for the spider justified?

The gap for the 720S is bigger, £50k or an extra 35% premium on the coupe to step up to a spider.

Part of the difference is that where the Spider was launched two years later, you're comparing different ages of car at the entry level of the market. Conversely the 650S Spider was launched almost together with the Coupe and the gap is a lot smaller.

McLaren spiders don't lose out in weight or stiffness to the coupes unlike metal-structured rivals, so it seems natural the spider premium is greater than with other cars.

[Pflanzgarten]

samoht said:

BlackR8 said:

Slightly off topic, but looking at the Sport Series range it looks like there is a good £20k+ gap between the cheapest coupe and equivalent spider variant which feels fairly big at circa 20%. Has this always been the case on the 570s range and for those who own either variant is such a big premium for the spider justified?

The gap for the 720S is bigger, £50k or an extra 35% premium on the coupe to step up to a spider.

Part of the difference is that where the Spider was launched two years later, you're comparing different ages of car at the entry level of the market. Conversely the 650S Spider was launched almost together with the Coupe and the gap is a lot smaller.

McLaren spiders don't lose out in weight or stiffness to the coupes unlike metal-structured rivals, so it seems natural the spider premium is greater than with other cars.

You make a good point but I find the shut lines on modern folding hard tops a total dogs dinner, they might not be compromised structurally but they are visually (to me, anyway).

[rawenghey]

samoht said:

I won't pretend to be objective on this one, but personally I'm entirely content with the rear of a 570GT in a decent bright colour

This illustrates why that wing isn't need. It spoils what is a very sleek and cohesive rear end.

[Davyt]

All fantastic cars , and a bargain to hoot !!

[DarthtaterM16]

They're all stupid fast aren't they?

I'd buy a 650s though.




Because it's faster.

[macdeb]

Perhaps this may help. An honest unbiased opinion from someone who's driven them all.
https://youtu.be/8v3prGxB-10

[macdeb]

Davyt said:

All fantastic cars , and a bargain to hoot !!

[Bispal]

macdeb said:

Perhaps this may help. An honest unbiased opinion from someone who's driven them all.
https://youtu.be/8v3prGxB-10

One of John's best videos and I agree with him 100% on his observations and scoring with the 12C/650s/570s/GT. His views echo exactly mine posted earlier. There are people on here who have, like me, driven all the cars and have found the same. The contributors on this thread don't seem to me to be biased or over critical of one McLaren over another (apart from the one). The OP did ask for the best way to spend £90k on a McLaren so there will be objective & subjective opinion as there are 3-4 cars that fit this bracket. The opinions will vary but it seems a consensus is materialising and I hope the OP finds this useful with his choice.

[Grey_Area]

We’ll all have a little confirmation bias in our opinions, to support our purchase decisions or others.
There’s a great deal of subjective information on here on what you should buy model x in preference to model y, but ultimately it comes down to your needs, hopes and desires.
Don’t base it fully on other’s opinions, but guardedly use them to objectively refine your own, then go for it.
There are no bad models in reality, just ones that fit different requirements a bit more selectively.
Statistics are used to differentiate, but can they define how it feels deep down, no not really. Quick is still quick.. 2.8 or 3.2 to 60, is largely academic, how does it feel to drive, and more importantly how does it make you feel each time you open the garage door, then go for a drive.
If stats are your thing, then perhaps reliability, running costs, insurance, mtbf, warranty costs etc may be useful.
And if you wanted to feel what 3.2 to 60 is like and beyond, there’s always launch control 🤣
Which one would make you smile each time? If time permits get to know why you feel the way you do, and then make your choice, we are all different…
BTW, the MOC is one of the friendliest clubs you could ever join.