Mumtalakat to take over McLaren
Discussion
Is McLaren really "one of the most revered names in British premium manufacturing"?
Their hi-fi brand didn't last long and the cars seem to have developed a "don't buy one without a warranty" reputation.
"Into the British hi-fi industry thunders the Tag Mclaren group who had been told by some men in suits that the key to financial success is a "diversified portfolio" and that they ought to be making some swish high tech bits of kit with "Mclaren" on the front. Tag Mclaren's thoughts on discovering that Audiolab, the company they bought, had little in the way of forthcoming product and little in the way of assets are unrecorded.
"Undaunted, Tag Mclaren Audio gave the Audiolab range a cosmetic overhaul, choosing to fit knobs from an audio company rather than Nef. The resulting steep climb in pricing was not well received as the products were essentially the same as the Audiolab iteration. Development began on some fancy new multi-channel processors, DVD players and power amps and these products were unleashed on an unsuspecting public.
"In truth, they were good. Well built, incredibly clever and at the pointiest part of the bleeding edge of technology. The catch was they were also rather pricy. So TAG McLaren decided the only way to improve matters was to make the product better still. The processors grew ever more powerful and the amps ever larger. The problem was that they had fundamentally misjudged the number of high end two channel users who would make the jump to multi-channel whilst making a product too purist for the high end AV loons. After some years of this, Mclaren remembered they made cars and closed down the enterpise.
"Into this vortex stepped the International Audio Group. Owners of an amazing factory in China, they had long realised that one way of being successful is to take a brand and use their factory to make really well bolted together product with a recognised brand name on the front. Tag Mclaren didn't really have much of a cache but Audiolab still did. IAG bought the rights and with commendable skill made products that looked and felt like people thought Audiolab should look like and at prices people felt they should cost."
Their hi-fi brand didn't last long and the cars seem to have developed a "don't buy one without a warranty" reputation.
"Into the British hi-fi industry thunders the Tag Mclaren group who had been told by some men in suits that the key to financial success is a "diversified portfolio" and that they ought to be making some swish high tech bits of kit with "Mclaren" on the front. Tag Mclaren's thoughts on discovering that Audiolab, the company they bought, had little in the way of forthcoming product and little in the way of assets are unrecorded.
"Undaunted, Tag Mclaren Audio gave the Audiolab range a cosmetic overhaul, choosing to fit knobs from an audio company rather than Nef. The resulting steep climb in pricing was not well received as the products were essentially the same as the Audiolab iteration. Development began on some fancy new multi-channel processors, DVD players and power amps and these products were unleashed on an unsuspecting public.
"In truth, they were good. Well built, incredibly clever and at the pointiest part of the bleeding edge of technology. The catch was they were also rather pricy. So TAG McLaren decided the only way to improve matters was to make the product better still. The processors grew ever more powerful and the amps ever larger. The problem was that they had fundamentally misjudged the number of high end two channel users who would make the jump to multi-channel whilst making a product too purist for the high end AV loons. After some years of this, Mclaren remembered they made cars and closed down the enterpise.
"Into this vortex stepped the International Audio Group. Owners of an amazing factory in China, they had long realised that one way of being successful is to take a brand and use their factory to make really well bolted together product with a recognised brand name on the front. Tag Mclaren didn't really have much of a cache but Audiolab still did. IAG bought the rights and with commendable skill made products that looked and felt like people thought Audiolab should look like and at prices people felt they should cost."
I had a TAG McLaren audio setup in the late 90s and it was superb (DVD player, processor and 5-channel power amp). Yes it was fairly pricy but I auditioned loads of systems and even the wife thought it worth the extra money! Looked pretty cool as well! Sold them a few years ago when multi channel formats like Dolby Atmos became de regueur.
Oh, and I run my McLaren car without a warranty, as do loads of owners these days as the number of decent independents make it more viable.
Oh, and I run my McLaren car without a warranty, as do loads of owners these days as the number of decent independents make it more viable.
andrew said:
"That equated to a deficit of almost £140,000 per car produced as costs crept up and deliveries stalled."
The thing is, when your sales collapse your costs don't, so it's easy to end up losing a large sum per car.McLaren were making 4-5k cars a year up to 2019. Then they withdrew the Sports Series... and didn't replace it. So their volume went down to under 2k cars a year, but on a cost base supporting 5k.
The Artura project has been a real disaster. It was late, so lost them two years of sales. Then the development programme will have gone way over budget, just because it ran so much longer. Then the launch garnered incendiary publicity which only confirmed people's negative preconceptions of McLaren's quality. And now they've finally got the car working well enough to sell to customers... and it turns out people don't want V6 hybrid supercars.
No wonder the Bahrainis are throwing in the towel.
samoht said:
The thing is, when your sales collapse your costs don't, so it's easy to end up losing a large sum per car.
McLaren were making 4-5k cars a year up to 2019. Then they withdrew the Sports Series... and didn't replace it. So their volume went down to under 2k cars a year, but on a cost base supporting 5k.
The Artura project has been a real disaster. It was late, so lost them two years of sales. Then the development programme will have gone way over budget, just because it ran so much longer. Then the launch garnered incendiary publicity which only confirmed people's negative preconceptions of McLaren's quality. And now they've finally got the car working well enough to sell to customers... and it turns out people don't want V6 hybrid supercars.
No wonder the Bahrainis are throwing in the towel.
Between the reputation and the styling have they ever really been a reliable money maker?McLaren were making 4-5k cars a year up to 2019. Then they withdrew the Sports Series... and didn't replace it. So their volume went down to under 2k cars a year, but on a cost base supporting 5k.
The Artura project has been a real disaster. It was late, so lost them two years of sales. Then the development programme will have gone way over budget, just because it ran so much longer. Then the launch garnered incendiary publicity which only confirmed people's negative preconceptions of McLaren's quality. And now they've finally got the car working well enough to sell to customers... and it turns out people don't want V6 hybrid supercars.
No wonder the Bahrainis are throwing in the towel.
I think that Tesla could see it as a backwards step ... the Chinese would have no such concerns but would most likely follow the same path as they have with Lotus ... with far fewer options at this price point.
But the whole market is in such a flux at the moment ... until the solid state battery offers new options is any sports car platform compatible with electrification ?
But the whole market is in such a flux at the moment ... until the solid state battery offers new options is any sports car platform compatible with electrification ?
ChrisW. said:
I think that Tesla could see it as a backwards step ... the Chinese would have no such concerns but would most likely follow the same path as they have with Lotus ... with far fewer options at this price point.
But the whole market is in such a flux at the moment ... until the solid state battery offers new options is any sports car platform compatible with electrification ?
Synthetic fuels where the carbon is scrubbed directly from the atmosphere and excess wind power and water provide the rest to create an alternative liquid fuel still looks like a great idea to me ... of course fossil fuels would then be preserved for more important future use than simply burning ...if we have future But the whole market is in such a flux at the moment ... until the solid state battery offers new options is any sports car platform compatible with electrification ?
samoht said:
andrew said:
"That equated to a deficit of almost £140,000 per car produced as costs crept up and deliveries stalled."
The thing is, when your sales collapse your costs don't, so it's easy to end up losing a large sum per car.McLaren were making 4-5k cars a year up to 2019. Then they withdrew the Sports Series... and didn't replace it. So their volume went down to under 2k cars a year, but on a cost base supporting 5k.
The Artura project has been a real disaster. It was late, so lost them two years of sales. Then the development programme will have gone way over budget, just because it ran so much longer. Then the launch garnered incendiary publicity which only confirmed people's negative preconceptions of McLaren's quality. And now they've finally got the car working well enough to sell to customers... and it turns out people don't want V6 hybrid supercars.
No wonder the Bahrainis are throwing in the towel.
We all know the old saying "how do you make a small fortune in motor racing?", you could just as easily start it with "how do you make a small fortune investing in a low volume british sports car maker". Plucky independent British car companies are great at two things:
- building interesting, characterful, beautiful, fun sports cars
- losing s
t-tons of cash for their owners
murphyaj said:
We all know the old saying "how do you make a small fortune in motor racing?", you could just as easily start it with "how do you make a small fortune investing in a low volume british sports car maker". Plucky independent British car companies are great at two things:
I mostly agree, McLaren has quite a lot in common with Lotus I think in various ways.- building interesting, characterful, beautiful, fun sports cars
- losing st-tons of cash for their owners
It looks like Automotive was mostly profitable up to the pandemic https://www.statista.com/statistics/1012238/mclare... . I think with consistently good management and a bit of luck, it's possible for such a company to be modestly profitable most years and on average.
I guess the optimistic case would be that the investment which has gone into the Artura lays the foundations for a higher quality manufacturer which can sell more cars for more money in the future, thus getting a bit closer to Ferrari's lucrative business model. That does look quite optimistic right now though.
I'm not clear on the connection between the F1 team and Automotive, the latter I understand is becoming profitable under F1's new model, so potentially the combined operation has more of a future.
samoht said:
I'm not clear on the connection between the F1 team and Automotive, the latter I understand is becoming profitable under F1's new model, so potentially the combined operation has more of a future.
The F1 team was still reporting losses in the most recent accounts (2022).Ownership of the F1 team is not straightforward. Technically McLaren Group Limited owns 100% of the F1 team but the debt holders can at any time turn the team's debt into equity and as a result hold 29.25% of the voting rights on an 'as-converted' basis. The F1 team is effectively a joint venture between McLaren and some private investors.
ChrisW said:
....until the solid state battery offers new options is any sports car platform compatible with electrification ?
Perhaps the bigger question is whether ANY sports cars are compatible with life in the second quarter of the 21st century.Can the ordinary man in the street identify a McLaren? Possibly.
Can that ordinary man in the street tell the difference between the cheapest McLaren and the most expensive? I suspect not.
Panamax said:
Can the ordinary man in the street identify a McLaren? Possibly.
Can that ordinary man in the street tell the difference between the cheapest McLaren and the most expensive? I suspect not.
I can't argue with you on these points, but why should that matter? 99% of people can't tell whether the Porsche that just went past was a 4 cylinder Cayman or a 911 GT3 RS. I'm not going to pretend that I don't like the reaction of people to seeing a supercar, but given the choice between a 570 and 750 I wouldn't be considering whether my Mum could tell the difference.Can that ordinary man in the street tell the difference between the cheapest McLaren and the most expensive? I suspect not.
Gassing Station | McLaren | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff