Discussion
12pack said:
Indeed, it’s all bit subjective as to what someone wants from a road car. My choice is to stick with the 650 for the road, and add something really raw - a manual Atom - for track. I’ve always thought of the LT’s as too much of a compromise.
I would love a dedicated track car, namely a Bac Mono, but the reality of that (or anything similar) is going to require a trailer and space for it, something to tow it with and my biggest gripe with any of the above, a decent climate. I know wet trackdays can be fun and teach you so much about grip limits but i can think of nothing worse than driving something "open" hundreds of miles to a wet track and driving back. Ive done that enough with sports bikes. So one car must fit the bill and i would always be biased to something that is more track orientated, including subsequent compromies.
Streetbeat said:
Wheelspinning said:
765 for track or short road driving, but they would choose 750 for day to day and longer trips.
So in your words in the first post, how does that make the 750s the "better" car to the 765LT?I clearly stated that it was the opinion of the team at McLaren Glasgow when I asked them how the 750 compares to the 765, and its immediate predecessor the 720.
I then asked if any owners on here that have had all 3 if they could offer their thoughts.
Fortunately one who has made a post with his impartial thoughts.
It's a discussion forum; I was looking for discussion and points of view from owners or others who have driven.
Whilst it was pointed out that McLaren sales people will always say whatever current is best, the DP who set up McLaren Glasgow views a entirely different car as the best product McLaren have launched so that's not entirely true; the team through there also know I have no desire to own any of the range in question so they definately were not trying to sell me the latest shiny thing.
12pack said:
Indeed, it’s all bit subjective as to what someone wants from a road car. I’ve chosen to stick with the 650 for the road, and added something really raw - a manual Atom - for track. In a sense, the LT’s are a compromise between the two.
I have to say that I think the 650 is the real sweet spot for me, and most likely what I would revisit if I offloaded the 675.Edited by 12pack on Monday 8th July 15:38
A good one is worth it's weight in gold.
So in a nutshell I can see the opinion of why some may view the 750 as their choice over a 765 if stepping up from say a 720; its 'better' for them as it ticks more requirements, especially if the track is not the reason for purchase.
Wheelspinning said:
It seems as though yourself and rocketreid have chipped in for an argument.
I clearly stated that it was the opinion of the team at McLaren Glasgow when I asked them how the 750 compares to the 765, and its immediate predecessor the 720.
Not at all, so in Mclarens words (whos every word you seem to take as gospel), you didnt ask why they thought the 750s was the better car.I clearly stated that it was the opinion of the team at McLaren Glasgow when I asked them how the 750 compares to the 765, and its immediate predecessor the 720.
P.s if you post a thread surely you understand the very topic is then up to "discussion"
Streetbeat said:
Not at all, so in Mclarens words (whos every word you seem to take as gospel), you didnt ask why they thought the 750s was the better car? Probably relevant under the circumstances dont you think.
P.s if you post a thread with statement surely you understand the very topic is then up to "discussion"
P.s if you post a thread with statement surely you understand the very topic is then up to "discussion"
Streetbeat said:
Not at all, so in Mclarens words (whos every word you seem to take as gospel), you didnt ask why they thought the 750s was the better car.
P.s if you post a thread surely you understand the very topic is then up to "discussion"
But you are not interested in discussing are you?P.s if you post a thread surely you understand the very topic is then up to "discussion"
I would guess you haven't driven either 750 or 765 so unable to offer the opinions I asked for, but seem more interested in trying to trip me up, by offering opinions that aren't mine and now trying to get a rise with another fabricated statement above.
Please go and find someone that is interested in having an argument with you; I have already pointed this out to you in other threads.
Ta.
The 750 is a material improvement over the 720. It's a matter of many small improvements with some substantial differences:
Personally, I think the 765 is a bit try-hard. I did 1500 miles in my GT3RS a couple of months ago - driving to Spa, round Spa, then across Belgium and France to our house there, then back to Blighty. It was fine - it's a Porsche, of course it worked - but you never forgot you were in a race car pretending to be a road car. Mine has the clubsport Manthey kit, so it's a bit of an extreme example, but for me the 765 is somewhat the same - a bit too stiff, a bit too snarling, a bit too "look-at-me" aero-clad. It's also, of course, a 720 underneath in terms of the interior and electronics, so all of the comments above apply. I like the fact that the 750 in comfort/comfort, on Michelins at sensible pressures, really is a GT when you want it to be. But also completely bats
t when your mood changes.
Does that help?
- The fit and finish is significantly better.
- The Artura binnacle and mode controls work better, although I somewhat miss the theatre of the track mode flip.
- The ICE is better if you use Carplay (and substantially worse if you don't).
- In normal driving the handling is slightly more balanced; faster steering, better throttle response; tauter body control. I've not yet road-tripped mine, that's coming in late September; nor have I taken it on track - that's early September - so I'll be in a better position to comment after that.
- The reliability seems significantly improved; I had no major issues with either of my 720s, but I've not even had niggles with the 750.
- It's a little noisier on a cruise than the 720, because of the shorter gearing, but mine has the sound-insulating screen so it's perfectly liveable. Certainly I've had no issue with the longer (300-ish mile) trips I have done.
- It is noticeably thirstier, but still far better than, e.g., a V12 Ferrari in that regard.
Personally, I think the 765 is a bit try-hard. I did 1500 miles in my GT3RS a couple of months ago - driving to Spa, round Spa, then across Belgium and France to our house there, then back to Blighty. It was fine - it's a Porsche, of course it worked - but you never forgot you were in a race car pretending to be a road car. Mine has the clubsport Manthey kit, so it's a bit of an extreme example, but for me the 765 is somewhat the same - a bit too stiff, a bit too snarling, a bit too "look-at-me" aero-clad. It's also, of course, a 720 underneath in terms of the interior and electronics, so all of the comments above apply. I like the fact that the 750 in comfort/comfort, on Michelins at sensible pressures, really is a GT when you want it to be. But also completely bats
t when your mood changes.Does that help?
Went through a similar thought process recently. I have had a 720s new from 2018, and love it. Been totally reliable although the guerilla glass was replaced under warranty. I drove a 750s for a few days with a view to changing, as it did seem to have the right amount of changes to just make a great car even better.
It was indeed great, but felt more like a mini 765 than a better 720s. To me, that actually made it lose a little of it's total all round abilities, narrowing its range of abilities. There was no equivalent for a 720s in comfort mode in the 750s. The gearing/suspension/exhaust changes edge it towards a 765LT.
Solution to me therefore was to buy a 765LT and keep the 720s, now I have the full range of abilities for the price of a new 750
Drove the 765LT home (400 miles with Senna seats) and it was fine to be honest. The 765LT is course on a different level to the 750s.
I don't think you can go wrong with a 750s, but I don't think it's a step up in 'quality', I could not feel that in any way, it's just a more focused car imho. I just did not want to lose the 'you can daily this thing and euro tour' the 720s absolutely nailed.
It was indeed great, but felt more like a mini 765 than a better 720s. To me, that actually made it lose a little of it's total all round abilities, narrowing its range of abilities. There was no equivalent for a 720s in comfort mode in the 750s. The gearing/suspension/exhaust changes edge it towards a 765LT.
Solution to me therefore was to buy a 765LT and keep the 720s, now I have the full range of abilities for the price of a new 750
Drove the 765LT home (400 miles with Senna seats) and it was fine to be honest. The 765LT is course on a different level to the 750s. I don't think you can go wrong with a 750s, but I don't think it's a step up in 'quality', I could not feel that in any way, it's just a more focused car imho. I just did not want to lose the 'you can daily this thing and euro tour' the 720s absolutely nailed.
rs200evo said:
Went through a similar thought process recently. I have had a 720s new from 2018, and love it. Been totally reliable although the guerilla glass was replaced under warranty. I drove a 750s for a few days with a view to changing, as it did seem to have the right amount of changes to just make a great car even better.
It was indeed great, but felt more like a mini 765 than a better 720s. To me, that actually made it lose a little of it's total all round abilities, narrowing its range of abilities. There was no equivalent for a 720s in comfort mode in the 750s. The gearing/suspension/exhaust changes edge it towards a 765LT.
Solution to me therefore was to buy a 765LT and keep the 720s, now I have the full range of abilities for the price of a new 750 Drove the 765LT home (400 miles with Senna seats) and it was fine to be honest. The 765LT is course on a different level to the 750s.
I don't think you can go wrong with a 750s, but I don't think it's a step up in 'quality', I could not feel that in any way, it's just a more focused car imho. I just did not want to lose the 'you can daily this thing and euro tour' the 720s absolutely nailed.
After looking at your 'garage', I knew exactly who you are!It was indeed great, but felt more like a mini 765 than a better 720s. To me, that actually made it lose a little of it's total all round abilities, narrowing its range of abilities. There was no equivalent for a 720s in comfort mode in the 750s. The gearing/suspension/exhaust changes edge it towards a 765LT.
Solution to me therefore was to buy a 765LT and keep the 720s, now I have the full range of abilities for the price of a new 750
Drove the 765LT home (400 miles with Senna seats) and it was fine to be honest. The 765LT is course on a different level to the 750s. I don't think you can go wrong with a 750s, but I don't think it's a step up in 'quality', I could not feel that in any way, it's just a more focused car imho. I just did not want to lose the 'you can daily this thing and euro tour' the 720s absolutely nailed.
You are actually quite near me, and your 720 was one of the first I seen in the flesh and guessed it was a good one as I still see you occasionally in it, last time down in the Ferry.
Thank you for both oof yours and 964s inputs, as they are very insightful.
The part about the 750 losing the 'comfort' part of the 750 is something I havn't heard before.
I love my LT, but as mentioned, 500 miles and 7hours with only a brief stop was pretty near the max for myself last week; never got that in the 650.
I might be speaking out of turn, but I had heard the guy in our area that had the Senna is loving the 720 spider he now has as it does it all with far less compromises.
Edited by Wheelspinning on Tuesday 9th July 22:49
964Cup said:
The 750 is a material improvement over the 720. It's a matter of many small improvements with some substantial differences:
Personally, I think the 765 is a bit try-hard. I did 1500 miles in my GT3RS a couple of months ago - driving to Spa, round Spa, then across Belgium and France to our house there, then back to Blighty. It was fine - it's a Porsche, of course it worked - but you never forgot you were in a race car pretending to be a road car. Mine has the clubsport Manthey kit, so it's a bit of an extreme example, but for me the 765 is somewhat the same - a bit too stiff, a bit too snarling, a bit too "look-at-me" aero-clad. It's also, of course, a 720 underneath in terms of the interior and electronics, so all of the comments above apply. I like the fact that the 750 in comfort/comfort, on Michelins at sensible pressures, really is a GT when you want it to be. But also completely batst when your mood changes.
Does that help?
Thank you...yes it does.- The fit and finish is significantly better.
- The Artura binnacle and mode controls work better, although I somewhat miss the theatre of the track mode flip.
- The ICE is better if you use Carplay (and substantially worse if you don't).
- In normal driving the handling is slightly more balanced; faster steering, better throttle response; tauter body control. I've not yet road-tripped mine, that's coming in late September; nor have I taken it on track - that's early September - so I'll be in a better position to comment after that.
- The reliability seems significantly improved; I had no major issues with either of my 720s, but I've not even had niggles with the 750.
- It's a little noisier on a cruise than the 720, because of the shorter gearing, but mine has the sound-insulating screen so it's perfectly liveable. Certainly I've had no issue with the longer (300-ish mile) trips I have done.
- It is noticeably thirstier, but still far better than, e.g., a V12 Ferrari in that regard.
Personally, I think the 765 is a bit try-hard. I did 1500 miles in my GT3RS a couple of months ago - driving to Spa, round Spa, then across Belgium and France to our house there, then back to Blighty. It was fine - it's a Porsche, of course it worked - but you never forgot you were in a race car pretending to be a road car. Mine has the clubsport Manthey kit, so it's a bit of an extreme example, but for me the 765 is somewhat the same - a bit too stiff, a bit too snarling, a bit too "look-at-me" aero-clad. It's also, of course, a 720 underneath in terms of the interior and electronics, so all of the comments above apply. I like the fact that the 750 in comfort/comfort, on Michelins at sensible pressures, really is a GT when you want it to be. But also completely bats
t when your mood changes.Does that help?
It's incredible to think how old the 720 is and how ridiculously high a bar it set, and how all these years later it can really only achieve 'marginal gains'.
It really is a fantastic car manufacturer.
Wheelspinning said:
Thank you...yes it does.
It's incredible to think how old the 720 is and how ridiculously high a bar it set, and how all these years later it can really only achieve 'marginal gains'.
It really is a fantastic car manufacturer.
I think the thing is that once you have more than 450 hp per ton (650S), carbon brakes, hydraulic steering and active suspension, how do you deliver more than marginal gains? You add power; improve suspension tuning and integration; sharpen the gearing; uprate the brakes; tidy the interior and improve the reliability and electronics. You don't fundamentally reinvent the driving experience. You can do that by adding hybrid for instant torque, or trick suspension electronics for car-drives-you handling, but then you have a 296. Which is not a better car.It's incredible to think how old the 720 is and how ridiculously high a bar it set, and how all these years later it can really only achieve 'marginal gains'.
It really is a fantastic car manufacturer.
The 650 was a better car than the 12c; the 720 was a better car than the 650; the 750 is a better car than the 720. But none of these are paradigm shifts, just evolutionary improvements (ICE and steel brakes aside in the early cars). Ultimately the impressive thing is how old the 12c is and what a high bar it set.
Wheelspinning said:
But you are not interested in discussing are you?
I would guess you haven't driven either 750 or 765 so unable to offer the opinions I asked for, but seem more interested in trying to trip me up, by offering opinions that aren't mine and now trying to get a rise with another fabricated statement above.
Please go and find someone that is interested in having an argument with you; I have already pointed this out to you in other threads.
Ta.
Got a complex much......ive really got better things to do than argue with you. I would guess you haven't driven either 750 or 765 so unable to offer the opinions I asked for, but seem more interested in trying to trip me up, by offering opinions that aren't mine and now trying to get a rise with another fabricated statement above.
Please go and find someone that is interested in having an argument with you; I have already pointed this out to you in other threads.
Ta.
No i havent driven either, guessing you havent either, but still the question remains, why is the 750 better than the 765, according to Glasgow, isnt that the very context of the thread and your post.
As a coupe 720 owner, I was looking for a spider as i never had one in my motoring life. Specifically, I was really interested to see if the Artura or 750 were good enough replacements to be both a daily and a hoon motor. 765 is far too track focused (seen a few on club events suffer on less than stellar roads) and wanted something a bit more fettled than the 650's etc.
Took each out for an hour or so (yes, not long to make more than a man maths decision but there you go!).
Artura : probably technically accomplished but left me feeling very meh ... no idea why but the cabin felt small and I never got the "omg, this is so worth it" feeling. All within the first few minutes oddly. The rest of the hour drive did not really change my mind. Electric only mode is good for pootling around and not scaring sensitive snowflakes but, as you'd expect, for nothing more. Electric assist also did not give me a feeling of a torque wave from low revs. Felt less than I get from the 720. Road holding and general manners are excellent and, had I come from my old 570 then I think it would have been far more alluring.
750 : While the changes seem minor, it has made a tremendous difference to the car overall. Comfort wise, I'd say it better than my 720 and the missus thought so too. Sport mode is a bit of a marmite thing. The extra bangs and pops are always good (yeah, kid in me I know) but the lack of smooth gear changes with that old fashioned kick in the pants feeling was not so great. Track mode for transmission is far more enjoyable and suiting the car's personality. Fit and finish are definitely better, chasing rattles and squeaks in the 720 was never entertaining for a car in that price bracket. Lack of android auto is totally unforgivable when a 16k Dacia gets it. Supposed to be coming in December but who knows. The other irritating change is that the old glass roof panels are not available on the coupe and a 11k option for the Spider. This can lead to the interior being a bit dark (no light roof lining available either unless you MSO it).
Result : dealer demo sold and man maths wins again !
Now to get a pack of vacuum bags so clothes for 2 week road trips can fit in the car.
Took each out for an hour or so (yes, not long to make more than a man maths decision but there you go!).
Artura : probably technically accomplished but left me feeling very meh ... no idea why but the cabin felt small and I never got the "omg, this is so worth it" feeling. All within the first few minutes oddly. The rest of the hour drive did not really change my mind. Electric only mode is good for pootling around and not scaring sensitive snowflakes but, as you'd expect, for nothing more. Electric assist also did not give me a feeling of a torque wave from low revs. Felt less than I get from the 720. Road holding and general manners are excellent and, had I come from my old 570 then I think it would have been far more alluring.
750 : While the changes seem minor, it has made a tremendous difference to the car overall. Comfort wise, I'd say it better than my 720 and the missus thought so too. Sport mode is a bit of a marmite thing. The extra bangs and pops are always good (yeah, kid in me I know) but the lack of smooth gear changes with that old fashioned kick in the pants feeling was not so great. Track mode for transmission is far more enjoyable and suiting the car's personality. Fit and finish are definitely better, chasing rattles and squeaks in the 720 was never entertaining for a car in that price bracket. Lack of android auto is totally unforgivable when a 16k Dacia gets it. Supposed to be coming in December but who knows. The other irritating change is that the old glass roof panels are not available on the coupe and a 11k option for the Spider. This can lead to the interior being a bit dark (no light roof lining available either unless you MSO it).
Result : dealer demo sold and man maths wins again !
Now to get a pack of vacuum bags so clothes for 2 week road trips can fit in the car.
bunyarra said:
As a coupe 720 owner, I was looking for a spider as i never had one in my motoring life. Specifically, I was really interested to see if the Artura or 750 were good enough replacements to be both a daily and a hoon motor. 765 is far too track focused (seen a few on club events suffer on less than stellar roads) and wanted something a bit more fettled than the 650's etc.
Took each out for an hour or so (yes, not long to make more than a man maths decision but there you go!).
Artura : probably technically accomplished but left me feeling very meh ... no idea why but the cabin felt small and I never got the "omg, this is so worth it" feeling. All within the first few minutes oddly. The rest of the hour drive did not really change my mind. Electric only mode is good for pootling around and not scaring sensitive snowflakes but, as you'd expect, for nothing more. Electric assist also did not give me a feeling of a torque wave from low revs. Felt less than I get from the 720. Road holding and general manners are excellent and, had I come from my old 570 then I think it would have been far more alluring.
750 : While the changes seem minor, it has made a tremendous difference to the car overall. Comfort wise, I'd say it better than my 720 and the missus thought so too. Sport mode is a bit of a marmite thing. The extra bangs and pops are always good (yeah, kid in me I know) but the lack of smooth gear changes with that old fashioned kick in the pants feeling was not so great. Track mode for transmission is far more enjoyable and suiting the car's personality. Fit and finish are definitely better, chasing rattles and squeaks in the 720 was never entertaining for a car in that price bracket. Lack of android auto is totally unforgivable when a 16k Dacia gets it. Supposed to be coming in December but who knows. The other irritating change is that the old glass roof panels are not available on the coupe and a 11k option for the Spider. This can lead to the interior being a bit dark (no light roof lining available either unless you MSO it).
Result : dealer demo sold and man maths wins again !
Now to get a pack of vacuum bags so clothes for 2 week road trips can fit in the car.
Nice write up....thanks.Took each out for an hour or so (yes, not long to make more than a man maths decision but there you go!).
Artura : probably technically accomplished but left me feeling very meh ... no idea why but the cabin felt small and I never got the "omg, this is so worth it" feeling. All within the first few minutes oddly. The rest of the hour drive did not really change my mind. Electric only mode is good for pootling around and not scaring sensitive snowflakes but, as you'd expect, for nothing more. Electric assist also did not give me a feeling of a torque wave from low revs. Felt less than I get from the 720. Road holding and general manners are excellent and, had I come from my old 570 then I think it would have been far more alluring.
750 : While the changes seem minor, it has made a tremendous difference to the car overall. Comfort wise, I'd say it better than my 720 and the missus thought so too. Sport mode is a bit of a marmite thing. The extra bangs and pops are always good (yeah, kid in me I know) but the lack of smooth gear changes with that old fashioned kick in the pants feeling was not so great. Track mode for transmission is far more enjoyable and suiting the car's personality. Fit and finish are definitely better, chasing rattles and squeaks in the 720 was never entertaining for a car in that price bracket. Lack of android auto is totally unforgivable when a 16k Dacia gets it. Supposed to be coming in December but who knows. The other irritating change is that the old glass roof panels are not available on the coupe and a 11k option for the Spider. This can lead to the interior being a bit dark (no light roof lining available either unless you MSO it).
Result : dealer demo sold and man maths wins again !
Now to get a pack of vacuum bags so clothes for 2 week road trips can fit in the car.
It kind of clears up their opinion at MacGlasgow.
They felt the 750 offered most of the 765 bits without the compromises, but a step up from the 720, which I guess us why the felt its the car they would choose out of the 3, hence they said it was the better car.
If I read this right, you bought a demo...if so, what colour?
Wheelspinning said:
Nice write up....thanks.
It kind of clears up their opinion at MacGlasgow.
They felt the 750 offered most of the 765 bits without the compromises, but a step up from the 720, which I guess us why the felt its the car they would choose out of the 3, hence they said it was the better car.
If I read this right, you bought a demo...if so, what colour?
Orange .. McLarens should only be orange by law .... It kind of clears up their opinion at MacGlasgow.
They felt the 750 offered most of the 765 bits without the compromises, but a step up from the 720, which I guess us why the felt its the car they would choose out of the 3, hence they said it was the better car.
If I read this right, you bought a demo...if so, what colour?
Sadly few good Orange options unless you go MSO - my current 720 is Azores, a really gorgeous shade. Huge spec, carbon everything only missing the front wing vents and that glass roof. Full orange seats and interior trim too. Lovely car. Long ago stopped buying new cars - 3 months in and already 40k off it. There is a cracking orange spider in Birmingham - glass roof and other bits. It was down in Bristol being prepped for a show somewhere. Very nearly bought it but New Forest offered a better deal and was really wanting the orange interior trim to lift the cabin up. It's off to Topaz for ppf refresh and the rest of the car covered as part of the deal.
964Cup said:
I think the thing is that once you have more than 450 hp per ton (650S), carbon brakes, hydraulic steering and active suspension, how do you deliver more than marginal gains? You add power; improve suspension tuning and integration; sharpen the gearing; uprate the brakes; tidy the interior and improve the reliability and electronics. You don't fundamentally reinvent the driving experience. You can do that by adding hybrid for instant torque, or trick suspension electronics for car-drives-you handling, but then you have a 296. Which is not a better car.
The 650 was a better car than the 12c; the 720 was a better car than the 650; the 750 is a better car than the 720. But none of these are paradigm shifts, just evolutionary improvements (ICE and steel brakes aside in the early cars). Ultimately the impressive thing is how old the 12c is and what a high bar it set.
Yup; they hit the ground running and we didn't even mention the P1 which is still my choice of the 'holy grail' at the time.The 650 was a better car than the 12c; the 720 was a better car than the 650; the 750 is a better car than the 720. But none of these are paradigm shifts, just evolutionary improvements (ICE and steel brakes aside in the early cars). Ultimately the impressive thing is how old the 12c is and what a high bar it set.
They blotted the copy book rolling out both the 720 and Artura a bit to early instead of ironing out issues, but both are very complex bits of kit.
bunyarra said:
Orange .. McLarens should only be orange by law .... Sadly few good Orange options unless you go MSO - my current 720 is Azores, a really gorgeous shade.
Huge spec, carbon everything only missing the front wing vents and that glass roof. Full orange seats and interior trim too. Lovely car. Long ago stopped buying new cars - 3 months in and already 40k off it. There is a cracking orange spider in Birmingham - glass roof and other bits. It was down in Bristol being prepped for a show somewhere. Very nearly bought it but New Forest offered a better deal and was really wanting the orange interior trim to lift the cabin up. It's off to Topaz for ppf refresh and the rest of the car covered as part of the deal.
Cannot overly disagree as my last mac was volcano orange and I loved the colour. Sadly few good Orange options unless you go MSO - my current 720 is Azores, a really gorgeous shade. Huge spec, carbon everything only missing the front wing vents and that glass roof. Full orange seats and interior trim too. Lovely car. Long ago stopped buying new cars - 3 months in and already 40k off it. There is a cracking orange spider in Birmingham - glass roof and other bits. It was down in Bristol being prepped for a show somewhere. Very nearly bought it but New Forest offered a better deal and was really wanting the orange interior trim to lift the cabin up. It's off to Topaz for ppf refresh and the rest of the car covered as part of the deal.
Sounds like a pretty great spec you have; look forward to some pics.
Your right about buying new; as I mentioned previously a stunning blue '24 plare Tokyo Cyan 750 spider is listed at £40k less than a similar brand new one in Glasgow.
However, it seems to not bother some people which is fair enough.
Enjoy your new mac.
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