So who is getting a Model 3?
Discussion
I can only go by what the owner of the one I rented told me. 4000 miles on his 2018 Model 3 and not a single problem. That's with it being driven by him plus all the rental customers he's had.
I could spot one small panel alignment issue. He showed me another (with the rear glass) I hadn't spotted, otherwise build quality looked very good.
Yes, there were a few things I think could be either small bugs in the software or just need changing to make it easier to operate the screen. The one I rented was on it's forth software revision, so I'd say there's still a way to go before they get it just right. Probably by the time we see them in the UK most of the bugs will be ironed out.
I could spot one small panel alignment issue. He showed me another (with the rear glass) I hadn't spotted, otherwise build quality looked very good.
Yes, there were a few things I think could be either small bugs in the software or just need changing to make it easier to operate the screen. The one I rented was on it's forth software revision, so I'd say there's still a way to go before they get it just right. Probably by the time we see them in the UK most of the bugs will be ironed out.
Surprised to see no mention of the braking issue?
A major US publication tested the Model 3 a few days ago, the stopping distance was the worst they had seen in a while... Tesla first denied it as fake news, but then later Musk admitted it was true, and tweeted that they are fixing it, will be giving another car to the reviewer (lets hope it isn't a special review-tweaked one!)
A major US publication tested the Model 3 a few days ago, the stopping distance was the worst they had seen in a while... Tesla first denied it as fake news, but then later Musk admitted it was true, and tweeted that they are fixing it, will be giving another car to the reviewer (lets hope it isn't a special review-tweaked one!)
ConsumerReports said:
The Tesla’s stopping distance of 152 feet from 60 mph was far worse than any contemporary car we’ve tested and about 7 feet longer than the stopping distance of a Ford F-150 full-sized pickup.
https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/tesla-model-3-review-falls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 23 May 12:34
Brakes were fine on the one I had and that included downhill canyon roads and a few stops from high speed on the freeway.
Didn't do a high speed emergency stop but then I had no reason to really. If I'd felt the brakes were lacking I would have specifically found a nice quiet stretch of road and tested them.
Having said that, if you use the regen on the higher setting, most of the time you 're not using the brakes at all so if this is problem caused by overheating you would be unlikely to experience it during normal driving. If the problem is something to do with the motors they'll fix it in a software update I suppose.
Didn't do a high speed emergency stop but then I had no reason to really. If I'd felt the brakes were lacking I would have specifically found a nice quiet stretch of road and tested them.
Having said that, if you use the regen on the higher setting, most of the time you 're not using the brakes at all so if this is problem caused by overheating you would be unlikely to experience it during normal driving. If the problem is something to do with the motors they'll fix it in a software update I suppose.
hyphen said:
Did you read the article I linked to? As you seem to be getting defensive over an issue that is a fact rather than up for debate...
Yes I did and no I wasn't. I was just describing my experience and pointing out that in the real world the brakes are used less than an ICE car.
hyphen said:
Did you read the article I linked to? As you seem to be getting defensive over an issue that is a fact rather than up for debate...
The physical brakes aren't an issue. Our X stops quicker than a SQ7. It appears to be over cautious ABS software in early cars which Tesla are going to sort out via over the air update.I do fell sorry for all the Tesla shorters, try as they might all they can do at the moment is watch their cash burn - almost as quickly as Tesla is burning cash
.I have an open mind about EV cars but the Model 3 just seems very poor to me.
Main concerns:
Interior - having everything in one screen seems very risky - what happens if the screen gets damaged or fails?
Build quality - the quality doesn't seem very good for the price of the car. Very expensive extras too.
Reliance on tech - what happens if the software fails? What happens if Tesla decide not to support a car anymore? What happens to the data that Tesla gathers from all these cars? Do the cars "phone home" and track your every move? Do you actually own the car or does Tesla retain the rights to all the software and hardware so you can't fix it without their consent?
My feeling is these cars will be another Delorean and end up expensive curios.
Main concerns:
Interior - having everything in one screen seems very risky - what happens if the screen gets damaged or fails?
Build quality - the quality doesn't seem very good for the price of the car. Very expensive extras too.
Reliance on tech - what happens if the software fails? What happens if Tesla decide not to support a car anymore? What happens to the data that Tesla gathers from all these cars? Do the cars "phone home" and track your every move? Do you actually own the car or does Tesla retain the rights to all the software and hardware so you can't fix it without their consent?
My feeling is these cars will be another Delorean and end up expensive curios.
Camelot1971 said:
I have an open mind about EV cars but the Model 3 just seems very poor to me.
Main concerns:
Interior - having everything in one screen seems very risky - what happens if the screen gets damaged or fails?
Build quality - the quality doesn't seem very good for the price of the car. Very expensive extras too.
Reliance on tech - what happens if the software fails? What happens if Tesla decide not to support a car anymore? What happens to the data that Tesla gathers from all these cars? Do the cars "phone home" and track your every move? Do you actually own the car or does Tesla retain the rights to all the software and hardware so you can't fix it without their consent?
My feeling is these cars will be another Delorean and end up expensive curios.
I've thought the same about the the single screen concept, too. It would essentially be unusable if something failed on the LCD screen, which doesn't seem like it would be out of the question at some point. Main concerns:
Interior - having everything in one screen seems very risky - what happens if the screen gets damaged or fails?
Build quality - the quality doesn't seem very good for the price of the car. Very expensive extras too.
Reliance on tech - what happens if the software fails? What happens if Tesla decide not to support a car anymore? What happens to the data that Tesla gathers from all these cars? Do the cars "phone home" and track your every move? Do you actually own the car or does Tesla retain the rights to all the software and hardware so you can't fix it without their consent?
My feeling is these cars will be another Delorean and end up expensive curios.
That said, beyond that I would imagine that mechnically they should be pretty reliable given how few drivetrain parts there are. And in terms of build quality and reliability generally, it'll undoubtedly improve. Scaling up production on any volume product is challenging, especially with a new company that has little experience of this.
As long as they can maintain cashflow, I think they'll ultimately be fine.
If they were to fail, I can't see it ending up like a DeLorean though. After all, only about 8,000 DeLoreans were made, and they already make that many Model 3s in a month. More like a glut of oversupply, like Rover?
If the display itself failed you would still be able to drive the car. The display doesn't control it.
Most dashboards are fully electronic these days. The same could be said about them.
If the computer controlling the car failed, you would be stuck, same as if the ECU fails in your ICE car.
If you're worried about stuff like that, this isn't a car you should consider.
I'll admit the interior layout, design and finish was one of my biggest concerns and one of the reasons I thought renting one for a few days would make my mind up one way or the other long before I need to make the purchase decision.
After about 5 minutes of driving, my mind was made up.
Most dashboards are fully electronic these days. The same could be said about them.
If the computer controlling the car failed, you would be stuck, same as if the ECU fails in your ICE car.
If you're worried about stuff like that, this isn't a car you should consider.
I'll admit the interior layout, design and finish was one of my biggest concerns and one of the reasons I thought renting one for a few days would make my mind up one way or the other long before I need to make the purchase decision.
After about 5 minutes of driving, my mind was made up.
Tallow said:
I've thought the same about the the single screen concept, too. It would essentially be unusable if something failed on the LCD screen, which doesn't seem like it would be out of the question at some point.
That’s no different though to Audi’s “Virtual Cockpit” or the active display fitted instead of real dials to VWs. If those displays die or develop a fault, so you no longer have a speedo, you have an undriveable car that needs fixing.MrTrilby said:
If those displays die or develop a fault, so you no longer have a speedo, you have an undriveable car that needs fixing.
Not ture. I once started an software update on my X but than realised I had a meeting to get to. Neither the dash board or 17inch touch screen would load because I persume the CPUs were been updated, but I was able to get the car into D and the thing drove fine - except I had no speedo. Indicators still worked. Not sure about lights as it was still on auto.
Clearly the main 'driving' CPU is a different system from the display controllers. If the main driving CPU failed yes you woudlnt be able to drive, but thats no different to any modern car. Virtually all cars have fly by wire throttles, so all depend on a working main CPU to get keep the thing moving.
Reliance on tech - any modern car has 20-100 networked ECUs with 100,000s lines of code. Suggest you buy a car from the 80's if this scares you!
At least Tesla (and now Jaguar with the I-pace) support OTA update - so issues can be fixed, algorithms optimised without visiting a dealer.
At least Tesla (and now Jaguar with the I-pace) support OTA update - so issues can be fixed, algorithms optimised without visiting a dealer.
Camelot1971 said:
Reliance on tech - what happens if the software fails? What happens if Tesla decide not to support a car anymore? What happens to the data that Tesla gathers from all these cars? Do the cars "phone home" and track your every move? Do you actually own the car or does Tesla retain the rights to all the software and hardware so you can't fix it without their consent?
.
Are any modern cars different to your point above? All modern cars, especially EVs, are software laden and cannot be driven with major software failures (just like modern airliners)..
My modern conventional car also sends data back to the manufacturer and tracks my car.
The points you make are valid but are not specific to a Tesla.
gangzoom said:
jkh112 said:
What would a charge at a UK supercharger cost?
Just charge at home. I've had an EV for the last 34K miles. I'm on E7 rate electricty at home, so day time rate is 1.5 p per kWh more expensive than standard rate but half the cost overnight which when I recharge the car.My total electricity bill for doing 34K miles....roughly £1000. I've done 4K in business tirps which I have claimed back from HMRC. So my net cost for fuel over 34K is currently around £0
.I claim 45p per mile for business trips even with an EV so will easily be able to do a bit better than just cover my costs.
Edited by jkh112 on Thursday 24th May 06:22
jkh112 said:
gangzoom said:
jkh112 said:
What would a charge at a UK supercharger cost?
Just charge at home. I've had an EV for the last 34K miles. I'm on E7 rate electricty at home, so day time rate is 1.5 p per kWh more expensive than standard rate but half the cost overnight which when I recharge the car.My total electricity bill for doing 34K miles....roughly £1000. I've done 4K in business tirps which I have claimed back from HMRC. So my net cost for fuel over 34K is currently around £0
.I claim 45p per mile for business trips even with an EV so will easily be able to do a bit better than just cover my costs.
Edited by jkh112 on Thursday 24th May 06:22
The above applies to the S and X, the 3 doesn’t have any free Supercharging. Or put it another way, there’s no allowance built into the price of the Model 3 for “free” Supercharging.
Am missing something here?
For a car that was being hailed as a game changer and one that was being made to be extremely affordable, for it to be of use and practical it's still going to cost £35k+, how is the average person earning a non PH powerfully built company director salary supposed to afford one of these? Lol.
Seems to have already missed the point now that they've reeled everyone in with their initial £1k deposits.
For a car that was being hailed as a game changer and one that was being made to be extremely affordable, for it to be of use and practical it's still going to cost £35k+, how is the average person earning a non PH powerfully built company director salary supposed to afford one of these? Lol.
Seems to have already missed the point now that they've reeled everyone in with their initial £1k deposits.
NordicCrankShaft said:
Am missing something here?
For a car that was being hailed as a game changer and one that was being made to be extremely affordable, for it to be of use and practical it's still going to cost £35k+, how is the average person earning a non PH powerfully built company director salary supposed to afford one of these? Lol.
Seems to have already missed the point now that they've reeled everyone in with their initial £1k deposits.
Just depends what it costs monthly for most people.For a car that was being hailed as a game changer and one that was being made to be extremely affordable, for it to be of use and practical it's still going to cost £35k+, how is the average person earning a non PH powerfully built company director salary supposed to afford one of these? Lol.
Seems to have already missed the point now that they've reeled everyone in with their initial £1k deposits.
A 3 series costs that much and there is no shortage of those is there.
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