Tesla Model X - a hit in the UK?
Discussion
Some Gump said:
the "chop your finger off door" would be universal slaughter if it was a VW.
Exactly how many people have had their fingers 'chopped' by the doors on a Model X???We've now covered some 2400 miles in our X, over half of those trips were with our 12 months old daughter on board. I can tell you now those rear doors are simply the best thing about the car when it comes to unloading kids. In my Leaf I use to have to try and position the car in car parks in such a way to make sure there was a way to ensure the rear door could open enough to get my daughter. Despite X been wider than the Leaf its actually so much easier to park simply because these days as long as there is enough space for me to squeeze out of the drivers seat I know the rear doors can open fully!!
I cannot see us going back to a car with 'normal' rear doors.
Exactly how many people have had their fingers 'chopped' by the doors on a Model X???
head in the sand tesla owner..... This is the mentality that leads to incidents, Im not saying accident as it wouldnt be an accident if it is known about. No better than any other car maker if they are not prepared to sort out potential issues before they injure someone. What would you say if it was your kid that lost a finger or fingers due to this and you knew that they knew about it but did nothing ? remember the time one of the big three decided against a recall as they worked out to recall all the models would have been significantly more than the compensation to a few cases if it went to court.
https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/P...
This from a new leading edge technically advanced company thats supposed to be different ? no difference to the big three, same sticky tar brush im afraid......
head in the sand tesla owner..... This is the mentality that leads to incidents, Im not saying accident as it wouldnt be an accident if it is known about. No better than any other car maker if they are not prepared to sort out potential issues before they injure someone. What would you say if it was your kid that lost a finger or fingers due to this and you knew that they knew about it but did nothing ? remember the time one of the big three decided against a recall as they worked out to recall all the models would have been significantly more than the compensation to a few cases if it went to court.
https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/P...
This from a new leading edge technically advanced company thats supposed to be different ? no difference to the big three, same sticky tar brush im afraid......
ruggedscotty said:
Exactly how many people have had their fingers 'chopped' by the doors on a Model X???
head in the sand tesla owner..... This is the mentality that leads to incidents, Im not saying accident as it wouldnt be an accident if it is known about. No better than any other car maker if they are not prepared to sort out potential issues before they injure someone. What would you say if it was your kid that lost a finger or fingers due to this and you knew that they knew about it but did nothing ? remember the time one of the big three decided against a recall as they worked out to recall all the models would have been significantly more than the compensation to a few cases if it went to court.
https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/P...
This from a new leading edge technically advanced company thats supposed to be different ? no difference to the big three, same sticky tar brush im afraid......
This is the snowflake mentality down to a tee.head in the sand tesla owner..... This is the mentality that leads to incidents, Im not saying accident as it wouldnt be an accident if it is known about. No better than any other car maker if they are not prepared to sort out potential issues before they injure someone. What would you say if it was your kid that lost a finger or fingers due to this and you knew that they knew about it but did nothing ? remember the time one of the big three decided against a recall as they worked out to recall all the models would have been significantly more than the compensation to a few cases if it went to court.
https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/P...
This from a new leading edge technically advanced company thats supposed to be different ? no difference to the big three, same sticky tar brush im afraid......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Snowflake
are you trying to be derogatory ? Pointing out a simple fact tesla have reacted by TURNING OFF a safety feature as they cant get it to work....
Im far from being a snowflake, have been involved in Health and safety for a long time and well aware of how quickly people change attitudes when something happens to them.
are you trying to be derogatory ? Pointing out a simple fact tesla have reacted by TURNING OFF a safety feature as they cant get it to work....
Im far from being a snowflake, have been involved in Health and safety for a long time and well aware of how quickly people change attitudes when something happens to them.
ruggedscotty said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Snowflake
are you trying to be derogatory ? Pointing out a simple fact tesla have reacted by TURNING OFF a safety feature as they cant get it to work....
Im far from being a snowflake, have been involved in Health and safety for a long time and well aware of how quickly people change attitudes when something happens to them.
Ah, that explains a lot!are you trying to be derogatory ? Pointing out a simple fact tesla have reacted by TURNING OFF a safety feature as they cant get it to work....
Im far from being a snowflake, have been involved in Health and safety for a long time and well aware of how quickly people change attitudes when something happens to them.
Health & Safety is fine up to a point, and I'd certainly not be condoning a return to the Victorian era, but to my mind there comes a point where relieving people of their responsibility to look after themselves becomes self-defeating. This, in my view, is such a point.
ruggedscotty said:
What would you say if it was your kid that lost a finger or fingers due to this and you knew that they knew about it but did nothing ?
.
Again I ask - How many times has this ACTUALLY happened?? .
In our kitchen we also have a huge selection of knives that am sure cause much more damage than the falcon wing doors, theres even a gas cooker, kettle with ability to cause life changing injuries. Unlike your concen of 'chopped fingers' these accidents at home happen to kid every day......So what's your solution to these dangerous items?? Its so irresponsible companies like Curries lets people with kids buy kettles or even worse just about every retail outlet sells knives to families.....
Oh on the note of safety our 2.5 ton X will also hit 60mph in 6 seconds, the more expensive versions half that time, imagine the accident potential of that kind of performance....I wonder how many people have lost a limb in a car accident due to excess speed, its quite unbelievable governments still allow us to buy these death traps and put our children in them!!
Edited by gangzoom on Monday 1st May 06:08
Trabi601 said:
98elise said:
A £1000 deposit is a bit more than a vague intention. I suspect about 25% will drop out as 2 years is a long time between order and delivery. Your needs and circumstances could be entirely different.
As soon as they become available as company cars sales will take off again. Our company has just stated they will have a 20% electric fleet by 2020.
Your last point - for most people who actually need a company car, rather than have one as a perk - a Tesla just will not work. You don't want range anxiety when you're travelling on business - and you don't want to have to plan hotels, parking etc., just to be able to fill up. As for perk users, much will depend on how much the UK price point is - if it's £50k for a 3-series competitor, despite the tax advantage, it's not going to get a massive uptake.As soon as they become available as company cars sales will take off again. Our company has just stated they will have a 20% electric fleet by 2020.
I'm obviously very cynical about the whole thing - I've run bikes and cars with small tanks and ranges in the past and find them a complete pain in the arse for anything other than short local journeys. Once you're in the realms of having to plan to stop and find somewhere to charge every 200 miles or so, the car becomes an inconvenience. I love the comfort of filling a tank with diesel and knowing I can get well over 600 miles from it.
I'm buying my Tesla, and I do 30-40k miles a year. 130 miles most working days. I'll start the day with a full "tank" so have no concerns about range, any more than I do about my mobile running out.
Currently I need to fill my car up 3 times a week. That means leaving earlier to get time to fill up and still be in work on time. If I could fill up at home overnight then I would.
I wouldn't swap my phone for one with a better battery if it could only be charged in special shops.
Again I ask - How many times has this ACTUALLY happened??
In our kitchen we also have a huge selection of knives that am sure cause much more damage than the falcon wing doors, theres even a gas cooker, kettle with ability to cause life changing injuries. Unlike your concen of 'chopped fingers' these accidents at home happen to kid every day......So what's your solution to these dangerous items?? Its so irresponsible companies like Curries lets people with kids buy kettles or even worse just about every retail outlet sells knives to families.....
A kettle is designed to boil water - this is what it does, a car door isnt designed to slice off childrens fingers. Any automatic feature should be properly designed with enough safeguards to prevent injury. Tesla did put in safeguards decided that they dont work so disabled them. Could you imagine if they said we cant get the seat belts to work, we will just put them in but dont worry you wont need them. like Ive driven since I was 17 and Ive never needed a seatbelt. Ive never needed an airbag when I have been driving, None of my passengers have needed such devices so do away with them. dont need them.... trouble is that moment that you do need them, that something goes wrong and you need that extra bit of safety intervention its not there.
Oh on the note of safety our 2.5 ton X will also hit 60mph in 6 seconds, the more expensive versions half that time, imagine the accident potential of that kind of performance....I wonder how many people have lost a limb in a car accident due to excess speed, its quite unbelievable governments still allow us to buy these death traps and put our children in them!!
I dont like the fact that this safety feature was disabled without so much as a watch your fingers kids announcement. all a bit underhand.
Edited by ruggedscotty on Monday 1st May 08:51
Kermit power said:
Ah, that explains a lot!
Health & Safety is fine up to a point, and I'd certainly not be condoning a return to the Victorian era, but to my mind there comes a point where relieving people of their responsibility to look after themselves becomes self-defeating. This, in my view, is such a point.
I dont quite understand your point. Relieving people of their responsibility to look after themselves ? How do you define that H&S is fine up to a point, how do you differentiate where is should be and where it shouldn't ? When companies such as tesla decide to put in a safety feature they have deemed that a process is risky and they have had to do something about that risk, when they cant get it to work they cant just turn it off. providing a product thats safe to use and free from injury is part and parcel of good commercial reponsibility. Someone somewhere has made a massive error in doing that. it also opens up a route for litigation. And in the US ? commercial suicide. You cant just turn off a safety feature and expect there to be no reaction.Health & Safety is fine up to a point, and I'd certainly not be condoning a return to the Victorian era, but to my mind there comes a point where relieving people of their responsibility to look after themselves becomes self-defeating. This, in my view, is such a point.
The company is fast losing its shine.
ruggedscotty said:
I dont quite understand your point. Relieving people of their responsibility to look after themselves ? How do you define that H&S is fine up to a point, how do you differentiate where is should be and where it shouldn't ? When companies such as tesla decide to put in a safety feature they have deemed that a process is risky and they have had to do something about that risk, when they cant get it to work they cant just turn it off. providing a product thats safe to use and free from injury is part and parcel of good commercial reponsibility. Someone somewhere has made a massive error in doing that. it also opens up a route for litigation. And in the US ? commercial suicide. You cant just turn off a safety feature and expect there to be no reaction.
The company is fast losing its shine.
OK, so to give an example, my S-Max has a collision alert system which screeches at you if it thinks you're going to hit something in front of you. I'd imagine in your H&S mode, you might well think that's a good thing, as it might well prevent accidents?The company is fast losing its shine.
That's all well and good, right up until people start to get lazy and inattentive whilst driving, as they know the car will screech at them if they need to hit the brakes... Then they jump into a hire car or whatever, and all of a sudden they've hit a traffic jam up the arse because the hire car didn't have the ability to screech at them.
Likewise with something like the Tesla. You might start out paying lots of attention to your kids when the door is shutting, because you're a conscientious parent, but then you get caught out in the rain and decide to jump in to the driver's seat straight away and allow the door to shut without your supervision, and all's well. Then you just get lazy and complacent... Then the safety mechanism fails... Then you're kid's finger gets lopped off.
OK, that's possibly even more unlikely to happen than it is already, but it's certainly a higher risk than it would be to supervise your child whilst the door shut.
Lots of safety technology is a good thing, but I tend to disagree with that which causes the most complacency.
It's a tesla culture that's as worrying about the specifics.
They had a feature that guaranteed the cabin temperature if the car was left. It was meant to allow you to leave a dog in it. After a software update it stopped working. Oops.. nobody knew. Got fixed but could easily have killed a pet in a hot climate. Insufficient testing.
Automatic emergency breaking was said to be on AP2 cars. It gets out that it isn't. Car gets down graded on safety scores so Tesla rush out the fix. Hmmm.. why did they not feel it was a priority until it hit the ratings?
After the guy that went under a lorry, they programmed it to be more wary of such situations, trouble is, for a while some cars in some places were braking hard going under a low bridge on the motorway when using autopilot, luckily no rear end shunts or worse. Still happens today.
The 0-60 is a bloody worry. No interlock to prevent launches in a Model S with a young child facing backwards in a car with the rear facing seats.
I get completely that we should have personal responsibility, but there's also the disconnect between the smug 'safest car' story where 'technology is safer than humans' and the reality.
They had a feature that guaranteed the cabin temperature if the car was left. It was meant to allow you to leave a dog in it. After a software update it stopped working. Oops.. nobody knew. Got fixed but could easily have killed a pet in a hot climate. Insufficient testing.
Automatic emergency breaking was said to be on AP2 cars. It gets out that it isn't. Car gets down graded on safety scores so Tesla rush out the fix. Hmmm.. why did they not feel it was a priority until it hit the ratings?
After the guy that went under a lorry, they programmed it to be more wary of such situations, trouble is, for a while some cars in some places were braking hard going under a low bridge on the motorway when using autopilot, luckily no rear end shunts or worse. Still happens today.
The 0-60 is a bloody worry. No interlock to prevent launches in a Model S with a young child facing backwards in a car with the rear facing seats.
I get completely that we should have personal responsibility, but there's also the disconnect between the smug 'safest car' story where 'technology is safer than humans' and the reality.
Kermit power said:
That's all well and good, right up until people start to get lazy and inattentive whilst driving, as they know the car will screech at them if they need to hit the brakes... Then they jump into a hire car or whatever, and all of a sudden they've hit a traffic jam up the arse because the hire car didn't have the ability to screech at them.
.
So with that logic, I have an automatic car and I get in a manual and wait this cars got three pedals and I have two legs, and it doesnt change cogs.... this isnt right.....
My point is that there was a feature installed in the car and tesla turned it off without telling people. This update over the air software leaves the car owner vulnerable if they dont recieve any updates on what has been done.
ruggedscotty said:
complacency is caused by those that are complacent.
not by systems that contribute to safety.
And people frequently become complacent because of the safety systems they've been given.not by systems that contribute to safety.
I do agree that if a manufacturer says the systems are there, then they should ensure that they are there and working, but I also think that plenty of them shouldn't be there in the first place.
I would also prefer to see cars without all the traction control and other gizmos they're fitted with these days, as ultimately they can't actually defeat the laws of physics, only mean that potentially cars are going much, much faster when those laws eventually decide to bite.
There was a thread about Jaguar and the pedestrain airbags the other day
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It seems they claim the airbag will always go off if there's a collision with a pedestrian, but it may go off at other times too - eg a lump in the road.
It's not clear from the reporting it is an airbag or whether its explosive hinges that quickly make the bonnet pop up as per some other makes
However theres nothing that says its saved a pedestrian yet, quite a few trying to sort out their misfired bonnets and some more asking how you switch it off
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
It seems they claim the airbag will always go off if there's a collision with a pedestrian, but it may go off at other times too - eg a lump in the road.
It's not clear from the reporting it is an airbag or whether its explosive hinges that quickly make the bonnet pop up as per some other makes
However theres nothing that says its saved a pedestrian yet, quite a few trying to sort out their misfired bonnets and some more asking how you switch it off
This thread demonstrates exactly my point about the Tesla fan mentality. You're making excuses for a manufacturer exposing you to foreseeable risk. You try to discredit people pointing out that risk,by taking about children (no-oneelse has mentioned children) calling people snowflakes and reverting todaioy mail health and safety gone mad logic.
It's a foreseeable risk. We know that because Tesla put a system in place to mitigate the risk. It didn't work, so they turned it off. If Tesla didn't class it as dangerous, there wouldn't have had a system in threfirst place. If it was any other manufacturer of a 100k car you'd not be excusing them.
It's a foreseeable risk. We know that because Tesla put a system in place to mitigate the risk. It didn't work, so they turned it off. If Tesla didn't class it as dangerous, there wouldn't have had a system in threfirst place. If it was any other manufacturer of a 100k car you'd not be excusing them.
Some Gump said:
It's a foreseeable risk. We know that because Tesla put a system in place to mitigate the risk. It didn't work, so they turned it off. If Tesla didn't class it as dangerous, there wouldn't have had a system in threfirst place. If it was any other manufacturer of a 100k car you'd not be excusing them.
Risk doesnt work like that, theres a risk in anythingThe question is does the risk of doing something increase or reduce the risk
It's been discussed before with cycling helmets
I don't know the ins and outs of the Tesla mechanism but which way is the risk greater
Same with that thread about the Jaguar bonnets
You've also got to ask, how much do you meed to spend to minimise the risk or do you take it to such a level you dont do it all
At what point did risk assessments put paid to the space shuttle?
Ive always found the tesla fanboys strange. yep I get the tesla thing and the cars are a paradigm shift but it is no excuse for bad management.
in isolation with no reference to others people or cars look at the cold hard facts....
Tesla made a Gull wing door.
they made it automatic.
they put in safety devices to ensure that it didn't hurt people or damage other objects beside it when it operated.
they then had snagging issues with it, they didn't fully test it so didn't discover the issues until it was out in the public domain.
door started to misbehave
tesla covertly turned it off
is that the actions you expect from a company.....
sadly not. its despicable and wrong.
in isolation with no reference to others people or cars look at the cold hard facts....
Tesla made a Gull wing door.
they made it automatic.
they put in safety devices to ensure that it didn't hurt people or damage other objects beside it when it operated.
they then had snagging issues with it, they didn't fully test it so didn't discover the issues until it was out in the public domain.
door started to misbehave
tesla covertly turned it off
is that the actions you expect from a company.....
sadly not. its despicable and wrong.
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