Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive (Vol. 2)

[George Smiley]

RobDickinson said:

Its 2020 and people are arguing if the supercharger network is a good thing or bad thing. lolz

This albatross is dead, its trotted off its mortal (tesla) coil

[coetzeeh]

German courts stops Tesla from using Autopilot terminology in Marketing and Advertising.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/14/elon-musk-rails-...

[RobDickinson]

We welcome 'not Autopilot' to the market.

[coetzeeh]

RobDickinson said:

We welcome 'not Autopilot' to the market.

::

[Tuna]

George Smiley said:

Look at my thread "Why buying tesla is the only option" - that albatross is a huge factor in deciding which car to buy, guess what, it cost Jag and Porsche (both on my comp car list) a lucrative lease, they wont car though but it is absolutely robbing others of sales.

Of course in the leaf type car sector, it isnt so much an issue a smaller battery can be charged very quick on 50kw but the non-tesla network is an embarrassment.

Agreed with both of those - but that wasn't what was being said. Isn't the Supercharger network a cost - just like advertising or maintaining a factory? It was certainly necessary in the early days when people didn't want to leave home without knowing they could charge their cars. But that's slowly changing as range goes up in the long distance cars, and people get used to charging local runabouts each night.

The other networks do look fairly messy, but to me that suggests they are costly and difficult to maintain and usage patterns barely meet those costs. The question is - how is Tesla's network any different? It's certainly a cost they needed to take in the early days, but it's only going to cost more and have less utility as people get their head around EV usage. As the other networks sort their game out (and just like the manufacturers, I'm sure they will), Tesla will be left with an expensive project to maintain that offers less and less differentiation. Hence 'albatross'.

[RobDickinson]

coetzeeh said:

RobDickinson said:

We welcome 'not Autopilot' to the market.

::

And frankly autobahn is fked they'll have to change that

[Witchfinder]

RobDickinson said:

Its 2020 and people are arguing if the supercharger network is a good thing or bad thing. lolz

Who thinks proprietary, manufacturer specific charging is a good idea? Sure, it has helped launch Tesla at a time when nobody else was picking up the gauntlet. Now, however, it merely complicates public charging and adoption of standards.

[ZesPak]

Witchfinder said:

Who thinks proprietary, manufacturer specific charging is a good idea? Sure, it has helped launch Tesla at a time when nobody else was picking up the gauntlet. Now, however, it merely complicates public charging and adoption of standards.

Fully agree, but Tesla did it because no-one else did it. They tried to make it open to other manufacturers but they (Tesla) were either too greedy or the others were too vindictive.

The EU or government should get involved in most of this, the best implementation I've seen is in the Netherlands, where you have the EU standard (type 2) and then a general payment option. Which means that whatever card you get to pay in Europe, it can cover ALL public chargers in the Netherlands.

Tesla (and others!) can still circumvent this by installing "private" chargers. Ionity does something similar but except for not working at all they are really expensive when your car isn't from one of their brands. Could still help out in a pinch though.

Competition will have to work this one out, I think it's a shame that Tesla couldn't get a deal with the other manufacturers, whichever side is to blame. The payment methods issue in the UK is pretty dire though if I hear from experience here.

[anonymous-user]

Witchfinder said:

RobDickinson said:

Its 2020 and people are arguing if the supercharger network is a good thing or bad thing. lolz

Who thinks proprietary, manufacturer specific charging is a good idea? Sure, it has helped launch Tesla at a time when nobody else was picking up the gauntlet. Now, however, it merely complicates public charging and adoption of standards.

Of course you’re right, as Rob is as well.

There should, without doubt, be a functioning, universal networks for all brands, as hopefully one day there will be.

But the Tesla network is clearly a good thing for Tesla owners and does no harm to anyone else, as it removes some demand from the general network.

[AstonZagato]

Some Gump said:

It's a shame, because to be fair on em, Tesla appear to have one of the most advanced driver assist systems out there.

Not sure I'd agree. The Tesla Autopilot is buggy and unpleasant at times (phantom braking and some odd behaviours). It produces enough jerkiness that my wife has banned me from using it when driving the Model X.

On the other hand, the Rangie, which has a TACC and Lane Keep system, is smooth as butter. My wife has no idea I'm using it. It doesn't have the lane change or SatNav features that the Tesla offers - but I have found that those are a bit variable on the Tesla anyway.

Of the two, I'd take the Rangie's system every time.

[Greggsybabe]

RobDickinson said:

And frankly autobahn is fked they'll have to change that

Why? The auto is short for Car and Bahn is the equivalent of lane or road. You would have to be stupid to make that kind of comparison.... oh Elon tweeted the same... say no more.

[hyphen]

Found a reason why Tesla's share price rose a little.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/14/tesla-lands-anot...

[hyphen]

German subsidies for EV can cover the full cost of a Zoe!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-15...

[rjg48]

REALIST123 said:

Witchfinder said:

RobDickinson said:

Its 2020 and people are arguing if the supercharger network is a good thing or bad thing. lolz

Who thinks proprietary, manufacturer specific charging is a good idea? Sure, it has helped launch Tesla at a time when nobody else was picking up the gauntlet. Now, however, it merely complicates public charging and adoption of standards.

Of course you’re right, as Rob is as well.

There should, without doubt, be a functioning, universal networks for all brands, as hopefully one day there will be.

But the Tesla network is clearly a good thing for Tesla owners and does no harm to anyone else, as it removes some demand from the general network.

Nothing against the Supercharger Network, it clearly isn't a reason for many people to buy a Tesla.

[anonymous-user]

rjg48 said:

Nothing against the Supercharger Network, it clearly isn't a reason for many people to buy a Tesla.

You bring clarity to a foggy world.

[Witchfinder]

ZesPak said:

The EU or government should get involved in most of this...

Completely agree. Especially in these early stages where rolling out high power (150kW+) charging for relatively few cars isn't going to show big returns on investment.

[Tuna]

ZesPak said:

The EU or government should get involved in most of this, .

The EU took nearly two decades to sort out mobile roaming. I've not no faith in them being any better in helping sort out EV infrastructure.

As more "non-Tesla" EVs appear on the roads, the commercial case for a better charging network will build, we'll see some natural consolidation and standards will be agreed on. It'll take time but we'll get there eventually.

[ZesPak]

Tuna said:

The EU took nearly two decades to sort out mobile roaming. I've not no faith in them being any better in helping sort out EV infrastructure.

As a consumer, for me it worked out well in NL. I'm not saying they have to get involved in the details, but standardizing stuff is important.

I do think, as I mentioned further in my post, that most things will be sorted by competition.

[SWoll]

Witchfinder said:

Who thinks proprietary, manufacturer specific charging is a good idea? Sure, it has helped launch Tesla at a time when nobody else was picking up the gauntlet. Now, however, it merely complicates public charging and adoption of standards.

Not for Tesla owners it doesn't.

I think it's great. A properly maintained network of fast chargers, cleverly placed around the UK motorway network with ample stalls and plenty of space.

In fact I've supercharged in the past hour at Hilton North services on the M6 as the car was at 50% and thought why not as get supercharging for free as part of my Evezy deal. Passed the generic chargers on the way through the services and looked busy, Tesla had 9 of 12 stalls free. 30 minutes, 1 coffee and half an episode of Ozark on Netlfix later and we were on our way with 90%+ battery.

Don't know what the future brings but at the moment it's brilliant.

[ZesPak]

One of the things that proper legislation might clear up is real-time charger availability like Tesla has.
A singular API for that is a pipe dream, but it would be great imho.

Now I do check PlugShare before I go anywhere (trips with the family) to see if I got free destination charging, but it's just crowdsourced so information might be outdated.