‘Flashcharge’ mobile EV recharging service
Discussion
shakindog said:
Is a self inflicted failure to proceed a reason to call your breakdown. As it’s not actually broken down
Breakdown companies only do out of fuel/charge as a courtesy
You can be charged for recovery as it’s self inflicted/operator stupidity/error
I don't know of any breakdown policies that don't cover it though? Breakdown companies only do out of fuel/charge as a courtesy
You can be charged for recovery as it’s self inflicted/operator stupidity/error
Wonder how long this will last. Can't see it making huge profits once they've paid for the driver's wages and the biodiesel.
Probably £30k or so spent on the generator and charger as well.
I wonder if it's an 800V charger. There could have been an opportunity there supporting HGVs and buses that run out of charge if so. Much cheaper than a flatbed recovery.
Probably £30k or so spent on the generator and charger as well.
I wonder if it's an 800V charger. There could have been an opportunity there supporting HGVs and buses that run out of charge if so. Much cheaper than a flatbed recovery.
shakindog said:
Is a self inflicted failure to proceed a reason to call your breakdown. As it’s not actually broken down
Breakdown companies only do out of fuel/charge as a courtesy
You can be charged for recovery as it’s self inflicted/operator stupidity/error
Kind of like buying a rover. Breakdown companies only do out of fuel/charge as a courtesy
You can be charged for recovery as it’s self inflicted/operator stupidity/error
ZipCharge seems like a better alternative if you want peace of mind that you have a top up available
https://www.zipcharge.global/
https://www.zipcharge.global/
48k said:
ZipCharge seems like a better alternative if you want peace of mind that you have a top up available
https://www.zipcharge.global/
Those look valuable and easy to steal.https://www.zipcharge.global/
Why was that the first thing to pop into my head?
You can take the boy out the scheme....
shakindog said:
Is a self inflicted failure to proceed a reason to call your breakdown. As it’s not actually broken down
Breakdown companies only do out of fuel/charge as a courtesy
You can be charged for recovery as it’s self inflicted/operator stupidity/error
AA and RAC offer a specific flat battery cover for EV’s, it’s around £14 a month last time I checked. They’ll give you a small charge so you can drive onto the flatbed then recover you to the nearest services where you can recharge. Breakdown companies only do out of fuel/charge as a courtesy
You can be charged for recovery as it’s self inflicted/operator stupidity/error
OldGermanHeaps said:
48k said:
ZipCharge seems like a better alternative if you want peace of mind that you have a top up available
https://www.zipcharge.global/
Those look valuable and easy to steal.https://www.zipcharge.global/
Why was that the first thing to pop into my head?
You can take the boy out the scheme....
48k said:
OldGermanHeaps said:
48k said:
ZipCharge seems like a better alternative if you want peace of mind that you have a top up available
https://www.zipcharge.global/
Those look valuable and easy to steal.https://www.zipcharge.global/
Why was that the first thing to pop into my head?
You can take the boy out the scheme....
georgeyboy12345 said:
AA and RAC offer a specific flat battery cover for EV’s, it’s around £14 a month last time I checked. They’ll give you a small charge so you can drive onto the flatbed then recover you to the nearest services where you can recharge.
Not what it says here https://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/electric-car... - cover included as standard (as it should be - they cover petrol cars running out of fuel too, so why would there be a surcharge?)Toaster Pilot said:
I'm amazed that a lot of people seem to be positive about this. It's a ridiculous idea and it provides far more fuel for the anti-EV FUD machine than any possible good it'll ever do.
Yes, the marketing stunt they're doing by pitching up at Gloucester services when it's busy does well to show Gridserve that the capacity there is far lower than demand, but that's about the only good thing I can see (and I'm sure they already know that, anyway!)
I don't understand the business model in the slightest. It'd be like the AA offering you emergency fuel at £6 a litre - you're not going to choose to use it if you have ANY other option, are you? Why would you pay for this when your breakdown service will get you to a charger anyway, and you're already paying for that?
There is definitely a need for this sort of thing, but I am not sure that this is the scalable solution that is needed. Yes, the marketing stunt they're doing by pitching up at Gloucester services when it's busy does well to show Gridserve that the capacity there is far lower than demand, but that's about the only good thing I can see (and I'm sure they already know that, anyway!)
I don't understand the business model in the slightest. It'd be like the AA offering you emergency fuel at £6 a litre - you're not going to choose to use it if you have ANY other option, are you? Why would you pay for this when your breakdown service will get you to a charger anyway, and you're already paying for that?
Charger demand will change massively depending on the date and time. There will be little capacity needed on the M5 on a typical day, but massive capacity needed on a Bank Holiday weekend. No one is going to provide the 10s or 100s of chargers needed to satisfy bank holidays and have them idle the rest of the year.
rxe said:
There is definitely a need for this sort of thing, but I am not sure that this is the scalable solution that is needed.
Charger demand will change massively depending on the date and time. There will be little capacity needed on the M5 on a typical day, but massive capacity needed on a Bank Holiday weekend. No one is going to provide the 10s or 100s of chargers needed to satisfy bank holidays and have them idle the rest of the year.
Agree that this is the main issue. Lots of people say "rent an ICE vehicle" for those journeys but that just means hire car companies will have the same issue (need 200 vehicles for some weekends and 2 for the rest).Charger demand will change massively depending on the date and time. There will be little capacity needed on the M5 on a typical day, but massive capacity needed on a Bank Holiday weekend. No one is going to provide the 10s or 100s of chargers needed to satisfy bank holidays and have them idle the rest of the year.
The "pop up" charging providers that are used for big events seem like a good answer. They rock up with a few big generators and some chargers and you're ready to charge.
georgeyboy12345 said:
shakindog said:
Is a self inflicted failure to proceed a reason to call your breakdown. As it’s not actually broken down
Breakdown companies only do out of fuel/charge as a courtesy
You can be charged for recovery as it’s self inflicted/operator stupidity/error
AA and RAC offer a specific flat battery cover for EV’s, it’s around £14 a month last time I checked. They’ll give you a small charge so you can drive onto the flatbed then recover you to the nearest services where you can recharge. Breakdown companies only do out of fuel/charge as a courtesy
You can be charged for recovery as it’s self inflicted/operator stupidity/error
firstly, most EV users don't have access to the payment systems on all networks (some use their own apps, some need their own rfid card) so AA would need to take electron-free car to a suitable charge point. secondly, there may be a que to get plugged in - then what? thirdly, the charge point might be out of order .
how do they know where to take the car ? do they hang around until you're charging?
blank said:
Agree that this is the main issue. Lots of people say "rent an ICE vehicle" for those journeys but that just means hire car companies will have the same issue (need 200 vehicles for some weekends and 2 for the rest).
The "pop up" charging providers that are used for big events seem like a good answer. They rock up with a few big generators and some chargers and you're ready to charge.
Depends on whether you’re looking at it from the viewpoint of the buyer or the seller.The "pop up" charging providers that are used for big events seem like a good answer. They rock up with a few big generators and some chargers and you're ready to charge.
On those bank holiday weekends, Flashcharge can rock up at the various services and charge their non-member prices as there will always be someone who doesn’t want to queue. Just like you can spend £300 per person to jump all the queues at Legoland/Alton Towers/Chessington.
I imagine many of the car rental companies will soon be offering more electric cars, so the problem will be even worse.
Depends on the destination as well. Look at the size of stuff like Centre Parcs. Huge car parks miles away from the main attraction. Unless they install loads of charge points then first thing many will be doing on their journey home is looking for a charger.
survivalist said:
Depends on the destination as well. Look at the size of stuff like Centre Parcs. Huge car parks miles away from the main attraction. Unless they install loads of charge points then first thing many will be doing on their journey home is looking for a charger.
Places like that could quite easily install low power destination chargers. Forget 7kW, think 2kW or maybe even less. Doesn’t matter if you’re parked up for a week. Hatfield station car park has a good take on this kind of setup - 27 PodPoints that can share the available power (they’re advertised as 7kW but probably won’t be if 27 cars are there - given they’ll be there all day, who cares)
Toaster Pilot said:
survivalist said:
Depends on the destination as well. Look at the size of stuff like Centre Parcs. Huge car parks miles away from the main attraction. Unless they install loads of charge points then first thing many will be doing on their journey home is looking for a charger.
Places like that could quite easily install low power destination chargers. Forget 7kW, think 2kW or maybe even less. Doesn’t matter if you’re parked up for a week. Hatfield station car park has a good take on this kind of setup - 27 PodPoints that can share the available power (they’re advertised as 7kW but probably won’t be if 27 cars are there - given they’ll be there all day, who cares)
survivalist said:
I agree in theory, but there are 1000s of cars in these places. Can’t see much of a business case to install large numbers of chargers unless the costs stack up in their favour .
Visitor numbers dropping because people will go somewhere that does serve their needs will be the driving force. Toaster Pilot said:
survivalist said:
I agree in theory, but there are 1000s of cars in these places. Can’t see much of a business case to install large numbers of chargers unless the costs stack up in their favour .
Visitor numbers dropping because people will go somewhere that does serve their needs will be the driving force. rxe said:
There is definitely a need for this sort of thing, but I am not sure that this is the scalable solution that is needed.
Charger demand will change massively depending on the date and time. There will be little capacity needed on the M5 on a typical day, but massive capacity needed on a Bank Holiday weekend. No one is going to provide the 10s or 100s of chargers needed to satisfy bank holidays and have them idle the rest of the year.
There are lots of relatively minor but at times quite powerful structural issues with having a large number of cars powered by Li batteries. Charger demand will change massively depending on the date and time. There will be little capacity needed on the M5 on a typical day, but massive capacity needed on a Bank Holiday weekend. No one is going to provide the 10s or 100s of chargers needed to satisfy bank holidays and have them idle the rest of the year.
If forced then people will simply have to change how they live to fit in around these short comings. Humans can do that very easily even if we complain loudly about having to do so. If you can't have the M5 full to almost gridlock with EVs all going to Salcombe on the same day and all needing to recharge en route then that holiday business will simply disperse somewhere else. Most EV pilots heading to Salcombe are only doing so because they need some photos of themselves at Boss Location B because they don't earn enough to own the right boat so cannot create social media content at Boss Location A which remains, as it always has been, the Solent.
The biggest problem this summer with the EV run to Salcombe was the Tesla chargers suddenly being full of back office clerical workers and juniors in model 3's. For the last few years your S and X kept you segregated from the hoi poloi but the demise of that luxury was being quite heavily discussed over Autumn with more than one person deciding to go back to Range Rovers.
But ultimately, the solution for 'bulge' charging will lie either with consumers naturally limiting their travel distance to being within the range of their brimmed EV or with additional temporary facilities which the festival and event industry will have to develop to be a core part of their service if they wish to continue to exist. Companies such as Shell and BP via their charging brands will simply have mobile and temporary solutions that can be deployed.
You could also tap into all the solar farms that lie alongside U.K. motorways. These pump into the grid 365 at dirt cheap rates but there is nothing to stop them temporarily opening up as retail vendors charging many multiples. If you have a solar farm that currently sells at a few pence per kw but could potentially sell at 20-30 times that to drivers then that will be more than enough revenue potential to underpin the capex of setting up the facility.
In the U.K. we appear obsessed with the belief that everyone is incontinent, can't stop eating burgers and must buy a CD so on any kind of journey more than 50 miles there has to be an enormous consumer retailer complex servicing fat, incontinent shopaholics. In reality, there is another type of human who would willingly pay a premium to not go to those places and is capable of just waiting inside their comfortable car while it tops up. So what we are likely to see is the creation of charging points which are simply car parks.
And we also have to consider the ability of some humans to work out that that instead of joining a massive queue at the services on the M5 or A303 of drones attempting to refuel, you could instead just nip off the M4 at Swindon or Reading to a retail park, refuel and be on your way. The key being that over the next decade every single retailer car park is going to become a refuelling destination and these are found at almost every other motorway junction in the U.K. so instead of everyone heading to a single motorway services you'll just have everyone peeling off the motorway at different junctions to refuel.
Plus, this chap who has invested in a £30k diesel generator is going to get wiped out by little old Gladys who lives near the gateway to the West Country in a lovely cottage and all she does is rent out her EV charging space on Just Park and offers a nice cup of tea and some scones in her living room.
The reality is that every single mile of every single motorway has electricity and more and more vending points whether it is private homes, solar fields, retail parks so all that will happen is humans will disperse and adapt away from motorway glory holes to use them.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 8th December 08:23
DonkeyApple said:
Plus, this chap who has invested in a £30k diesel generator is going to get wiped out by little old Gladys who lives near the gateway to the West Country in a lovely cottage and all she does is rent out her EV charging space on Just Park and offers a nice cup of tea and some scones in her living room.
I can't see that happening at all, why would someone want to be parked on a drive for 12+ hours charging from a home charger when they could be off in 60 mins? I'm not saying the portable charger is a better solution BTW, the sums don't add up at all.
8K for the generator + chargers + trailer probably around 10K all in, discovery to pull it all 10K someone to run it 20K for the year, fuel for the generator + discovery 10k for the year.
Very basic maths with all the other business stuff not included like insurance payment systems etc etc.
You would need to clear £93.15 a day 365 days a year for five years just break even, its not a business I would want to get involved in tbh.
TheRainMaker said:
DonkeyApple said:
Plus, this chap who has invested in a £30k diesel generator is going to get wiped out by little old Gladys who lives near the gateway to the West Country in a lovely cottage and all she does is rent out her EV charging space on Just Park and offers a nice cup of tea and some scones in her living room.
I can't see that happening at all, why would someone want to be parked on a drive for 12+ hours charging from a home charger when they could be off in 60 mins? I'm not saying the portable charger is a better solution BTW, the sums don't add up at all.
8K for the generator + chargers + trailer probably around 10K all in, discovery to pull it all 10K someone to run it 20K for the year, fuel for the generator + discovery 10k for the year.
Very basic maths with all the other business stuff not included like insurance payment systems etc etc.
You would need to clear £93.15 a day 365 days a year for five years just break even, its not a business I would want to get involved in tbh.
Re the use of people's driveways for charging. This is already done in London and if the commercial need arises then it will simply happen elsewhere. Sure if it takes 12 hours then it will be uncompetitive but there will be people with faster chargers and buyers who just need 50 miles.
I think what often catches people out when considering how the future will unfold is an assumption that humans are thick combined with forgetting that electricity is truly ubiquitous. In reality, humans adapt and change almost without any thought and there is electricity all around us.
Instead of being restricted to refuelling at a very tiny number of fixed locations, as is the case with petrol, there isn't the same tight restrictions with electricity. Almost anywhere can be a vending point.
You won't have thousands of drivers trying to cram in to motorway services because you will no longer be tied to using them or other petrol vending points.
Every retail car park is adding chargers. Every driveway is adding chargers. Anywhere there is a business case is adding chargers. At the same time as this fledgling network grows to total ubiquity so the range of Li batteries will keep marginally improving while humans will also adapt to fit and to take advantage.
London to Cornwall is about 250 miles. So just about doable in a higher end family EV. Currently, the people who do that trip will stop to recharge towards the end of the M5. They aren't generally filling to the brim but just slipping enough in to have a fair buffer versus not having to sit around for ages. But what's to stop you from adding that 50-100 mile buffer anywhere along your journey? What's the difference between stopping 80 miles from your destination or 80 miles after your departure?
When I do the West Country run in a petrol car I know that it'll just reach the destination on a full tank if I drive like an old man but it's easier to just do a fill up on the way. Now most people seem to leave that until the back end of their journey but I've always preferred to just top back up before I get half way. No queues, no worries about traffic jams with a near empty tank, no needing to stop when you just want to get the journey finished.
So if today, you were forced to drive a 250 mile range EV for 250 miles, would you top up 100 miles right at the end along with absolutely everyone else or would you be smart and top up that 100 miles miles back where there is little to no immediate demand so no queuing, no hassle and possibly a cheaper price? I've been to Swindon and I've stopped at M5 services. Swindon wins every time.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff