Discussion
saaby93 said:
TheDeuce said:
We need better batteries.
Other things too.Hydrogen cars that use a piston engine are coming through- but how to store the hydrogen?
How does the weight of a hydrogen tank compare to that of batteries? Or can a softer tank be used?
Fuel cells might be able to use capacitors instead of batteries for load levelling.
Some EVs are more efficient in miles per kwh than others - size, weight and aero.
saaby93 said:
ther things too.
Hydrogen cars that use a piston engine are coming through- but how to store the hydrogen?
How does the weight of a hydrogen tank compare to that of batteries? Or can a softer tank be used?
Based on the LPG ones, they are predictably heavier than a fuel tank but much much lighter than batteries. There is a min spec for the strength of hydrogen tanks I am sure but it's not the tech that is the issue, its consumers. Charge an EV at home by plugging it in or go to a service station and connect up a hydrogen line to your car? And there wil be all the 'what if it blows up' comments that will put people off.Hydrogen cars that use a piston engine are coming through- but how to store the hydrogen?
How does the weight of a hydrogen tank compare to that of batteries? Or can a softer tank be used?
Frimley111R said:
Based on the LPG ones, they are predictably heavier than a fuel tank but much much lighter than batteries. There is a min spec for the strength of hydrogen tanks I am sure but it's not the tech that is the issue, its consumers. Charge an EV at home by plugging it in or go to a service station and connect up a hydrogen line to your car? And there wil be all the 'what if it blows up' comments that will put people off.
Absolutely no company is going to build a retail distribution network for a handful of people who cannot afford an EV. That cost alone guarantees no customers. But as the fuel is made from EV fuel it will always be much more expensive, this such consumers could never afford it. And if the Grid apparently doesn't have enough electricity to fuel EVs then it very obviously doesn't have enough to create hydrogen. And that's just for hydrogen electrolysis EVs. There is already legislation to stop hydrogen ICE due to its NOx pollution and it would be even more expensive as it is considerably less efficient. Nor will such price sensitive consumers like paying for a fuel that escapes so freely having paid so much money for it. In the U.K. if green hydrogen is proven to be possible it will be used as a battery to store renewable energy and as a means to dilute natural gas and reduce emissions in the home and energy industry.
But all the global projects to create green hydrogen, if it works, are only set to double the amount of global hydrogen production by 2030 which means there still wouldn't be enough to power any kind of automotive fleet. By the time the capability exists to produce that amount of hydrogen the idea of developed nations ever using it in cars will have long been forgotten and everyone will be in cars with electric motors and quite happy.
saaby93 said:
Hydrogen cars that use a piston engine are coming through- but how to store the hydrogen?
Even if it was a sensible way forwards (which it definitely isn't for mass transport!), unless I'm missing something they're going to be banned in 2035? The ban refers to all vehicles which are not "zero emission at the tailpipes" and hydrogen ICE is not. saaby93 said:
How does the weight of a hydrogen tank compare to that of batteries?
Obviously this depends on the capacity you want, but also how you intend to package the car. Batteries can be arranged however you want whereas hydrogen tanks need to be round so if you want to, for example, put the tanks under the floor like in a BEV you'd need many separate tanks. If you have a big square space in the middle of the car you can fit one larger tank which makes it considerably cheaper. Generally HFCEVs seem to weigh a bit more than current long range BEVs. For example the Mirai weighs around two tonnes for something roughly the size and shape of a Skoda Octavia.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 19th December 13:57
I remember reading about this new battery tech a couple of years ago, apparently the next big thing or a load of waffle?
https://www.metalectrique.com/
https://www.metalectrique.com/
Robotron70 said:
I remember reading about this new battery tech a couple of years ago, apparently the next big thing or a load of waffle?
https://www.metalectrique.com/
People have been trying (and failing) to get Aluminium Ion batteries working well enough for commercial use for years. It hasn't happened yet...https://www.metalectrique.com/
FWIW
About a year ago as an interesting lockdown project I built and installed a Lithium Supercap bank in my 2011 CR-Z instead of the Nimh pack.
There is a series of 10 videos on my YT channel about the project, starting with this one.
https://youtu.be/jeI6o-lGNbE
I used 80 x 2200F caps in a 40S2P configuration.
This gave a peak of about 21kw from the IMA, so well over the standard output.
Of course the sustained power (capacity) was much less (1/10th) than a standard Nimh pack.
It basically contains enough power to accelerate the car quickly to cruising speed or absorb power when decelerating.
The supercaps cycle life is very high and the car worked quite happily.
If commercial supercaps ever increase in capacity say by 10x then they might see more use in EV systems.
About a year ago as an interesting lockdown project I built and installed a Lithium Supercap bank in my 2011 CR-Z instead of the Nimh pack.
There is a series of 10 videos on my YT channel about the project, starting with this one.
https://youtu.be/jeI6o-lGNbE
I used 80 x 2200F caps in a 40S2P configuration.
This gave a peak of about 21kw from the IMA, so well over the standard output.
Of course the sustained power (capacity) was much less (1/10th) than a standard Nimh pack.
It basically contains enough power to accelerate the car quickly to cruising speed or absorb power when decelerating.
The supercaps cycle life is very high and the car worked quite happily.
If commercial supercaps ever increase in capacity say by 10x then they might see more use in EV systems.
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