Shell all EV Station Fulham

[phil4]

TheDeuce said:

For the very occasional journeys that myself and the vast majority of motorists make that need a charge during the trip, we've already gone at least 100 miles by the time even the most limited EV's really need a charge, and most will have gone well over 200 miles - so I'd rather stop at proper services with a choice of restaurants etc. IE: A place to have a proper break on a longish journey.

This. It's one of the most common things I hear from people who are looking at EV's half seriously, the "But there aren't any chargers in my town". These are all people that can easily charge at home, but haven't got that mindset. They're still thinking petrol. Luckily it doesn't take long to explain that as you can charge at home, the chargers you want to worry about existing are the ones 100-200 miles away, where you'd need a charge having run out getting there. Luckily as you say, these are typically on major service stations.

That being said, more local ones are needed as an option for people who can't charge at home. Indeed I don't think there's going to be a one size fits all (eg. everyone has kerbside charging), so more the merrier.

[Frimley111R]

sjg said:

I think the petrol station before was limited hours and it had to be carried over.

Isn't it open the same hours as a normal petrol station? Why does it need to be 24hr?

[TheDeuce]

phil4 said:

TheDeuce said:

For the very occasional journeys that myself and the vast majority of motorists make that need a charge during the trip, we've already gone at least 100 miles by the time even the most limited EV's really need a charge, and most will have gone well over 200 miles - so I'd rather stop at proper services with a choice of restaurants etc. IE: A place to have a proper break on a longish journey.

This. It's one of the most common things I hear from people who are looking at EV's half seriously, the "But there aren't any chargers in my town". These are all people that can easily charge at home, but haven't got that mindset. They're still thinking petrol. Luckily it doesn't take long to explain that as you can charge at home, the chargers you want to worry about existing are the ones 100-200 miles away, where you'd need a charge having run out getting there. Luckily as you say, these are typically on major service stations.

That being said, more local ones are needed as an option for people who can't charge at home. Indeed I don't think there's going to be a one size fits all (eg. everyone has kerbside charging), so more the merrier.

Roughly 2/3rd's of homes are suitable for home charging. The remaining 3rd must represent less than a 3rd of actual car ownership, due to the lesser value of such homes impacting the likelihood of them having at least one car. Also generally such homes are close to town/city centres so public transport or walking is often viable. When you drill down like that, the final number of people that will own a car but can't charge at home becomes small enough that a steady but realistic increase in local chargers should suffice. It's not as if a terraced street of 70 houses will ever need 70 pop-up street chargers, for example.

The rest, as you say, is a problem of perception - the casual observer of EV's does tend to assume that they can't be a viable alternative to ICE until you can nip to the local BP and fill them up as quickly as an ICE car. It doesn't help that the mainstream motoring media seem to play on that idea and obsess over range and charging times. In particular it seems impossible for any YouTube 'A day with an EV' video to not conveniently suffer public charger drama of some sort - despite the fact the reality is that most chargers work most of the time just fine, and the most basic of free apps will tell you if they're working and available!

[MisanoPayments]

One of the issues with that location is the traffic you then have to sit in if you're going river bound... but I suppose there's shopping that can be done in Sainsbury's and Screwfix whilst you're waiting!

[raspy]

Frimley111R said:

Isn't it open the same hours as a normal petrol station? Why does it need to be 24hr?

Lots of petrol stations are open 24 hours. Given the limited state of EV charging infrastructure, even in the South East, surely it makes sense to have electric forecourts that offer the ability to rapid charge 24 hours a day, or is it expected that EV drivers needing to rapid charge when on a journey should only travel between 7am-11pm? What about Uber EV drivers, or someone working shifts that don't correspond 9-5 hours? What if they wanted to charge their car outside of "normal" (whatever normal means) hours?

[TheDeuce]

raspy said:

Frimley111R said:

Isn't it open the same hours as a normal petrol station? Why does it need to be 24hr?

Lots of petrol stations are open 24 hours. Given the limited state of EV charging infrastructure, even in the South East, surely it makes sense to have electric forecourts that offer the ability to rapid charge 24 hours a day, or is it expected that EV drivers needing to rapid charge when on a journey should only travel between 7am-11pm? What about Uber EV drivers, or someone working shifts that don't correspond 9-5 hours? What if they wanted to charge their car outside of "normal" (whatever normal means) hours?

You can assume that Shell would have weighed up the demand and worked closely with the local authorities to balance demand, traffic flow etc. This stuff doesn't get overlooked or guessed when millions is being spent and both the business and LA both have things they will want to achieve.

If it overall made sense to be 24hr, it would be.

[somouk]

TheDeuce said:

Roughly 2/3rd's of homes are suitable for home charging.

My home has off road parking and I could have a charger fitted, the issue is I'm on a looped supply and the Neighbour won't agree to the works to have it delooped.

In my area there are hundreds of homes in this situation and the plan for the DNO to fix them all one by one is a bit laughable and not really financially sustainable for them. Either they need to accept a pre-set load limiting charger capability and let installers just install the approved kit or the system needs to get a whole lot more efficient quickly to meet demand and cost limitations.

[TheDeuce]

somouk said:

TheDeuce said:

Roughly 2/3rd's of homes are suitable for home charging.

My home has off road parking and I could have a charger fitted, the issue is I'm on a looped supply and the Neighbour won't agree to the works to have it delooped.

In my area there are hundreds of homes in this situation and the plan for the DNO to fix them all one by one is a bit laughable and not really financially sustainable for them. Either they need to accept a pre-set load limiting charger capability and let installers just install the approved kit or the system needs to get a whole lot more efficient quickly to meet demand and cost limitations.

Your situation is fairly unusual - especially that the neighbour won't agree to the works to improve the situation. I say 'improve' as neither house can have a fast charger fitted as it stands, and at some point that situation is bound to impact the value of both houses to a small but notable extent, IE: Enough to pay for the works and to tidy up again afterwards.

Even as it stands you're not stuck though. Unless you do several very long journeys per week, the majority of drivers could cope with 10a granny charging which will use any 13a socket.

[Aiminghigh123]

I was one of those driving in wondering why I can’t fill my ICE with petrol!!!

I have thought about EV but living in a flat it’s not possible. No charging at home. Plus yes I’m put off my the lack of chargers. Reading the responses here about 200 mile trips, can you not survive that long? I once drove from Newquay to London in one go. Our 1 year old fell asleep just after we started the journey so just pushed through until he woke up which he didn’t until we got home. No problem.
Done London to Leeds for an interview which took 1 hour then drove home.

These charging stations would make more sense being out of the city surely?

Edited by Aiminghigh123 on Saturday 22 January 17:22

[Meeten-5dulx]

This is an option for those that are visiting someone, so can splash and dash.
Also, if you consider Uber drivers or delivery drivers, they may need to fill up.

What doesn’t make sense Is the lack of overnight charging.
Surely they can lower the rates to encourage people to use it when prices are lower…?

But it could be that they are not permitted by the council to open past 11pm….

Good on Shell for doing this and whilst there won’t be so may in all city centres , it does provide a solution if you need to fill up. And this will increase as more EVs are sold.

[TheDeuce]

Aiminghigh123 said:

I was one of those driving in wondering why I can’t fill my ICE with petrol!!!

I have thought about EV but living in a flat it’s not possible. No charging at home. Plus yes I’m put off my the lack of chargers. Reading the responses here about 200 mile trips, can you not survive that long? I once drove from Newquay to London in one go. Our 1 year old fell asleep just after we started the journey so just pushed through until he woke up which he didn’t until we got home. No problem.
Done London to Leeds for an interview which took 1 hour then drove home.

These charging stations would make more sense being out of the city surely?

Edited by Aiminghigh123 on Saturday 22 January 17:22

There are 50 kw chargers all over the place these days - not the fastest but a 40 minute break will give you an extra 100 miles range. To your point about not 'needing' to stop, fair enough. But more often than not, it's not a hardship to stop. Drive more than 200 miles in the UK and it's highly likely you're going to cross either lunch or dinner time.. Why not charge and eat?

Granted ICE wins out for the odd occasion when you really do just want to push on and do several hundred miles in a single hit. But that's very rare and for the other 99.9% of the time, the EV with home charging is actually the most convenient option for most drivers mileage. Probably even for many drivers that can't charge charge at home, providing they can find a 50kw+ charger close to home and some shops to pass the time. The benefit of using a local public charger is that you can often buy a monthly subscription to use it as much as you wish - so not 100% convenient but potentially a very big saving over petrol/diesel.

[Aiminghigh123]

TheDeuce said:

There are 50 kw chargers all over the place these days - not the fastest but a 40 minute break will give you an extra 100 miles range. To your point about not 'needing' to stop, fair enough. But more often than not, it's not a hardship to stop. Drive more than 200 miles in the UK and it's highly likely you're going to cross either lunch or dinner time.. Why not charge and eat?

Granted ICE wins out for the odd occasion when you really do just want to push on and do several hundred miles in a single hit. But that's very rare and for the other 99.9% of the time, the EV with home charging is actually the most convenient option for most drivers mileage. Probably even for many drivers that can't charge charge at home, providing they can find a 50kw+ charger close to home and some shops to pass the time. The benefit of using a local public charger is that you can often buy a monthly subscription to use it as much as you wish - so not 100% convenient but potentially a very big saving over petrol/diesel.

I agree with your point, however. We shop online 95% of the time. Eating out will usually only do that at a local pub, of which we have 5 within half a mile. I have seen local chargers near us unfortunately for me it would involve parking up to put the car on charge and then having to remember to move it in 2 hrs time otherwise you get a ticket. Plus the 5 min walk there at back which is a pain. Until our estate management pull there finger out and get chargers I’m limited on options.

[Toaster Pilot]

TheDeuce said:

There are 50 kw chargers all over the place these days - not the fastest but a 40 minute break will give you an extra 100 miles range. To your point about not 'needing' to stop, fair enough. But more often than not, it's not a hardship to stop. Drive more than 200 miles in the UK and it's highly likely you're going to cross either lunch or dinner time.. Why not charge and eat?

Meh. Having to take multiple 40 minute breaks on a long journey isn’t convenient no matter how you spin it.

What does change the game is 150kW+ charging and a car that is capable - I had an e-Tron 55 for a couple of months. Charge stops are then simply just a splash and dash - literally the time it takes to take a comfort break and grab a coffee. That’s an equivalent experience to ICE with the only difference being you need to stop where there are ultra rapid chargers rather than wherever you like.

[TheDeuce]

Toaster Pilot said:

TheDeuce said:

There are 50 kw chargers all over the place these days - not the fastest but a 40 minute break will give you an extra 100 miles range. To your point about not 'needing' to stop, fair enough. But more often than not, it's not a hardship to stop. Drive more than 200 miles in the UK and it's highly likely you're going to cross either lunch or dinner time.. Why not charge and eat?

Meh. Having to take multiple 40 minute breaks on a long journey isn’t convenient no matter how you spin it.

What does change the game is 150kW+ charging and a car that is capable - I had an e-Tron 55 for a couple of months. Charge stops are then simply just a splash and dash - literally the time it takes to take a comfort break and grab a coffee. That’s an equivalent experience to ICE with the only difference being you need to stop where there are ultra rapid chargers rather than wherever you like.

Multiple 40 minute breaks? How long is your journey..?

You can buy an EV these days that will confidently do 300 miles on a charge and then another 200 after less than an hour's break. I agree that slash and dash charge speeds are good news - but I want to keep perspective too. People aren't adding hundreds of miles of range several times a day, regardless of how fast they add that range.

[Toaster Pilot]

TheDeuce said:

Multiple 40 minute breaks? How long is your journey..?

You can buy an EV these days that will confidently do 300 miles on a charge and then another 200 after less than an hour's break. I agree that slash and dash charge speeds are good news - but I want to keep perspective too. People aren't adding hundreds of miles of range several times a day, regardless of how fast they add that range.

The MG ZS EV I had required multiple 40 minute stops for a 330 mile motorway journey - it was tedious. The same can be said for a lot of EVs on the market. Less than ideal charger placement along the route didn’t help, mind, and the continuous improvements to the public charging network should help with that.

What cars confidently have a 300 mile range? I can’t think of too many.

[TheDeuce]

Toaster Pilot said:

TheDeuce said:

Multiple 40 minute breaks? How long is your journey..?

You can buy an EV these days that will confidently do 300 miles on a charge and then another 200 after less than an hour's break. I agree that slash and dash charge speeds are good news - but I want to keep perspective too. People aren't adding hundreds of miles of range several times a day, regardless of how fast they add that range.

The MG ZS EV I had required multiple 40 minute stops for a 330 mile motorway journey - it was tedious. The same can be said for a lot of EVs on the market. Less than ideal charger placement along the route didn’t help, mind, and the continuous improvements to the public charging network should help with that.

What cars confidently have a 300 mile range? I can’t think of too many.

I think the point is that for most people a 330 mile journey is very rare, and as such not really a factor in car choice. Most non budget EV's would easily do that journey with a single charge - not several.

Your MG can do 200 miles of typical driving - then an hour's charge at 50kw or half hour at 100kw and your 330 mile journey is done. Why were you stopping multiple times on a single 330 mile journey?

Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 22 January 22:28

[croyde]

Someone said earlier 49p per kWh.

I was watching 5th Gear on Quest the other night. They've gone all electric.

Vicky Butler Henderson was getting admonished by the younger presenter as she was only getting 2.5 miles to the kWh whilst they were driving the NC500 in an Ioniq.

That's about 34mpg equivalent. Awful really.

My petrol car did about 50mpg on a similar drive up in the Highlands and I wasn't worrying about driving gently.

Of course if you can charge at home you'll be doing far better than me but unless you live in Scotland that's a moot point.

Do all the forecourt chargers cost that much?

[SWoll]

TheDeuce said:

Toaster Pilot said:

TheDeuce said:

Multiple 40 minute breaks? How long is your journey..?

You can buy an EV these days that will confidently do 300 miles on a charge and then another 200 after less than an hour's break. I agree that slash and dash charge speeds are good news - but I want to keep perspective too. People aren't adding hundreds of miles of range several times a day, regardless of how fast they add that range.

The MG ZS EV I had required multiple 40 minute stops for a 330 mile motorway journey - it was tedious. The same can be said for a lot of EVs on the market. Less than ideal charger placement along the route didn’t help, mind, and the continuous improvements to the public charging network should help with that.

What cars confidently have a 300 mile range? I can’t think of too many.

I think the point is that for most people a 330 mile journey is very rare, and as such not really a facty in car choice. Most non budget EV's would easily do that journey with a single charge - not several.

Your MG can do 200 miles of typical driving - then an hour's charge at 50kw or half hour at 100kw and your 330 mile journey is done. Why were you stopping multiple times on a single 330 mile journey?

You won't see 150 miles from the original ZS during a UK winter at motorway speeds, more like 125 which when considering a bit of a buffer would need at least 2 charges, probably 3. 76kW was the highest charging speed as well BTW, so 40 minutes of charging on a 100kW charger as TP mentions.

[Toaster Pilot]

TheDeuce said:

I think the point is that for most people a 330 mile journey is very rare, and as such not really a facty in car choice. Most non budget EV's would easily do that journey with a single charge - not several.

Your MG can do 200 miles of typical driving - then an hour's charge at 50kw or half hour at 100kw and your 330 mile journey is done. Why were you stopping multiple times on a single 330 mile journey?

Errr, no it couldn’t. Not the new long range model, the previous one with a 163 mile WLTP range and a real range a bit lower. Once you add in not wanting to run too close to 0% because of the unreliability of public chargers and only charging to 80% because of the cliff edge drop in charging speed, you’re talking 100 miles between stops at best.

It couldn’t charge at anything like 100kW either, and I doubt the new model will get anywhere near unless the battery is both warm and almost empty.

I’m massively pro-EV but I think you need to take the rose tinted glasses off.

[TheDeuce]

SWoll said:

TheDeuce said:

Toaster Pilot said:

TheDeuce said:

Multiple 40 minute breaks? How long is your journey..?

You can buy an EV these days that will confidently do 300 miles on a charge and then another 200 after less than an hour's break. I agree that slash and dash charge speeds are good news - but I want to keep perspective too. People aren't adding hundreds of miles of range several times a day, regardless of how fast they add that range.

The MG ZS EV I had required multiple 40 minute stops for a 330 mile motorway journey - it was tedious. The same can be said for a lot of EVs on the market. Less than ideal charger placement along the route didn’t help, mind, and the continuous improvements to the public charging network should help with that.

What cars confidently have a 300 mile range? I can’t think of too many.

I think the point is that for most people a 330 mile journey is very rare, and as such not really a facty in car choice. Most non budget EV's would easily do that journey with a single charge - not several.

Your MG can do 200 miles of typical driving - then an hour's charge at 50kw or half hour at 100kw and your 330 mile journey is done. Why were you stopping multiple times on a single 330 mile journey?

You won't see 150 miles from the original ZS during a UK winter at motorway speeds, more like 125 which when considering a bit of a buffer would need at least 2 charges, probably 3. 76kW was the highest charging speed as well BTW, so 40 minutes of charging on a 100kW charger as TP mentions.

Fair enough on the stats - I didn't realise it was an earlier car.

But I was careful to note that the 330 mile journey would be an rarity for most people - and as such, whatever charging is required shouldn't be that much of an upset. If however long journeys are more commonplace, then I would question why a person would buy an EV with such limited range.

Same as any other machine, you have to buy the car that does what you need it to do. Are there EV's that will do a 330 mile journey in a single charge? Just about.. at worst there's a few that would do it with a single 30 minute break. The comment about requiring 'multiple' charge breaks is down to car choice, not limitation of tech or infrastructure.

EDIT: TP, I've tried to address your most recent post in this post.