Best electric premium hatchback on the horizon?

Best electric premium hatchback on the horizon?

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Discussion

SWoll

14,030 posts

235 months

Sunday 8th May
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You're going to struggle. For the minute all of the alternatives are either a bit crap (ID3) or built on a shared platform so much heavier than the Model 3 (Polestar 2, i4). The slightly flimsy feel of the Tesla is one of the key reasons it's so light in comparison IMHO.

Not aware of anything else in the pipeline that's due, although perhaps consider the i4 40 as reviews seem to suggest it feels a lot lighter and more agile than the ridiculously heavy M50?


Frimley111R

12,774 posts

211 months

Sunday 8th May
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SWoll said:
You're going to struggle. For the minute all of the alternatives are either a bit crap (ID3) or built on a shared platform so much heavier than the Model 3 (Polestar 2, i4). The slightly flimsy feel of the Tesla is one of the key reasons it's so light in comparison IMHO.

Not aware of anything else in the pipeline that's due, although perhaps consider the i4 40 as reviews seem to suggest it feels a lot lighter and more agile than the ridiculously heavy M50?
Agreed this. despite how long the m3 has been on sale there are still no direct competitors. Model Y is the closest you'll get if you don't mind the 'inflated M3' looks

Europa Jon

369 posts

100 months

Sunday 8th May
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I'm very interested in the upcoming Smart EV. Check it out - it seems a good combination of decent range, good size (not cramped or too podgy), nice looking, blah blah blah. Expected cost is £35K, so surely a contender.

SWoll

14,030 posts

235 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
Europa Jon said:
I'm very interested in the upcoming Smart EV. Check it out - it seems a good combination of decent range, good size (not cramped or too podgy), nice looking, blah blah blah. Expected cost is £35K, so surely a contender.
I think it's safe to say that 'nice looking' is very subjective. smile



Looks Mini Countryman in size so perhaps a bit small? Basically another branding exercise from Geely, but if they can hit the suggested price and specs will be a popular addition to the market I'm sure.

gmaz

3,878 posts

187 months

Sunday 8th May
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Genesis GV60 looks promising. A bit longer than the ID3 but still a usable size.

survivalist

4,635 posts

167 months

Sunday 8th May
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SWoll said:
I think it's safe to say that 'nice looking' is very subjective. smile



Looks Mini Countryman in size so perhaps a bit small? Basically another branding exercise from Geely, but if they can hit the suggested price and specs will be a popular addition to the market I'm sure.
Looks like a modern version of this. So all that’s required is 30 years, a hit film and a touch of nostalgia.

In the meantime, it’s the motoring equivalent of sensible shoes.



jaydeeuk1

111 posts

37 months

Sunday 8th May
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So you want an EV, with similar performance to the m3p, which will obv need a meaty battery pack, yet be light (to me, light is under 1200 kilos)




272BHP

Original Poster:

3,077 posts

213 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
jaydeeuk1 said:
So you want an EV, with similar performance to the m3p, which will obv need a meaty battery pack, yet be light (to me, light is under 1200 kilos)
Given that the tiny carbon tubbed BMW i3s was 1300kg then no I expect any hatchback EV to weigh about 1600-1800kg.

Not interested in parity with a M3P at all but I don't think an ID3 sized EV with around 350bhp should be beyond the realms of possibility.

NelsonM3

1,550 posts

148 months

Sunday 8th May
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BMW iX1 due end of year.

SWoll

14,030 posts

235 months

Sunday 8th May
quotequote all
272BHP said:
jaydeeuk1 said:
So you want an EV, with similar performance to the m3p, which will obv need a meaty battery pack, yet be light (to me, light is under 1200 kilos)
Given that the tiny carbon tubbed BMW i3s was 1300kg then no I expect any hatchback EV to weigh about 1600-1800kg.

Not interested in parity with a M3P at all but I don't think an ID3 sized EV with around 350bhp should be beyond the realms of possibility.
The i3 will go down as an anomaly, using it a a benchmark will always end up in disappointment I'd suggest as I don't expect to see any of the big manufacturers investing in the kind of tech the i3 employed any time soon. Similar sized EV's from other manufacturers are 200KG+ heavier.

As above the M3P manages to keep weight down (1850KG) due to being a ground up EV and being quite flimsy of build (had one for 2 years so well aware), if you want a better built more solid feeling EV than the Tesla but of a similar size then 2000KG should be expected with current tech, and worse for a compromised platform share car. The flimsy feeling ground up ID3 weighs 1950Kg with a 77kW battery.

Edited by SWoll on Sunday 8th May 21:25

DMZ

438 posts

137 months

Sunday 8th May
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I don’t think an ID3 feels flimsy, more leaden and unresponsive. Same or possibly worse with the ID4. I would be utterly amazed if that platform can yield an interesting car seeing as VW suddenly stopped making class leading and very expensive platforms that could stretch to performance variants. Other than the ID Buzz which I think is interesting in a different way.

I’m waiting to see what an Alpine version of the Renault Megane EV thing might bring. But being realistic about it, power means big battery in an EV and it’s very hard to package that and the motors in a hatchback without it being bloated across every measurement. And you can’t really do aggressive looking EVs in the traditional sense because of aero so you will nearly always end up with a smooth featureless blob (it seems).

rscott

13,182 posts

168 months

Monday 9th May
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jaydeeuk1 said:
So you want an EV, with similar performance to the m3p, which will obv need a meaty battery pack, yet be light (to me, light is under 1200 kilos)
A Ford Focus is anything from 1,235 to 1,518kg, so I think your "light" figure needs updating.

Even an MX5 only just comes in under that at 1,058kg.

annodomini2

6,563 posts

228 months

Monday 9th May
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Maybe the proposed Renault 5 EV, if they get around to launching it

page3

4,509 posts

228 months

Monday 9th May
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It’s a segment all but abandoned by the industry, especially for EVs.

Almost everything coming out is a SUV or crossover. The id3 (and derivatives) is one of the few that fits in that segment. Even the trusty Leaf and Ioniq Electric haven’t been replaced by similar segment cars.

At Fully Charged we had the opportunity to look at quite a lot. The small car market seems to be picking up - mini, smart, Honda, Peugeot, fiat etc all there. But not the size up.

I ended up with a Model 3. It’s too big and isn’t a hatchback, but it’s the closest I could find that I liked.

ajap1979

5,733 posts

164 months

Monday 9th May
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The cars you think are small, i.e the ID3 aren't really small at all. I parked my Polestar 2 next to one at a restaurant yesterday and there is barely anything in it size-wise, in fact the ID3 was much taller.

ZesPak

23,591 posts

173 months

Monday 9th May
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Evanivitch said:
If you're just going to play it by numbers then sure, not much is going to beat the M3P in that bracket. But then it's somewhat a one-trick pony in that regard.
Wouldn't call the M3P a one-trick pony tbh, it does many things really well. There's a reason it tops many charts.
As mentioned before, it feeling "not that well put together" comes with the territory if you want to keep the weight relatively low. Anything that competes with it outweighs it.

There are many gaps yet to be filled in the EV market, so far it seems we've mostly got SUV's of all sizes.

The main issue I've seen with the more obvious candidates for "premium hatchback" is that they will be cumbersome to do long trips in compared to their ICE equivalent. The Mini Cooper SE is actually pretty good, but with the range and tops 50kW charging it was clearly designed as a second car. Same goes for the Fiat 500 although it's a bit better in 42kWh guise , but still 85kW charging. The Honda E was also clearly designed as a second car.

272BHP

Original Poster:

3,077 posts

213 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
page3 said:
It’s a segment all but abandoned by the industry, especially for EVs.

Almost everything coming out is a SUV or crossover. The id3 (and derivatives) is one of the few that fits in that segment. Even the trusty Leaf and Ioniq Electric haven’t been replaced by similar segment cars.

At Fully Charged we had the opportunity to look at quite a lot. The small car market seems to be picking up - mini, smart, Honda, Peugeot, fiat etc all there. But not the size up.

I ended up with a Model 3. It’s too big and isn’t a hatchback, but it’s the closest I could find that I liked.
It is weird isn't it? I much preferred my BMW i3s to my Tesla M3P, except for range and pace - I just need 50 mile more range and a little bit bigger and it would have been perfect.

But of course the i3 was way ahead of its time and costs far too much to manufacture so we won't see its like again.

ZesPak

23,591 posts

173 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
The i3 was a brilliant car. But again, as an only car restricted by range and fast charging limits.

SWoll

14,030 posts

235 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
ZesPak said:
Evanivitch said:
If you're just going to play it by numbers then sure, not much is going to beat the M3P in that bracket. But then it's somewhat a one-trick pony in that regard.
Wouldn't call the M3P a one-trick pony tbh, it does many things really well. There's a reason it tops many charts.
As mentioned before, it feeling "not that well put together" comes with the territory if you want to keep the weight relatively low. Anything that competes with it outweighs it.

There are many gaps yet to be filled in the EV market, so far it seems we've mostly got SUV's of all sizes.

The main issue I've seen with the more obvious candidates for "premium hatchback" is that they will be cumbersome to do long trips in compared to their ICE equivalent. The Mini Cooper SE is actually pretty good, but with the range and tops 50kW charging it was clearly designed as a second car. Same goes for the Fiat 500 although it's a bit better in 42kWh guise , but still 85kW charging. The Honda E was also clearly designed as a second car.
I don't agree with the "second car" label TBH. They're city cars and perfect for the vast majority of people doing <50 miles per day and a long trip once or twice per year. I personally find having to carry around an incredibly heavy 80kW+ battery all the time when < 20kW would be enough for 360 days of the year quite frustrating. But that's what people seem to demand, even though the vast majority 100% don't need it.

I'm not saying EV's should all have 20kW batteries BTW, but this continued obsession with more range and ever bigger batteries has significant downsides from a cost, availability and weight perspective obviously.

ZesPak said:
The i3 was a brilliant car. But again, as an only car restricted by range and fast charging limits.
TBH we found 170 miles and 50kW from 0-90% worked pretty well even on longer trips. The excellent efficiency really makes up for poor rapid charging rates.

Edited by SWoll on Monday 9th May 10:16

ZesPak

23,591 posts

173 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
I can agree that the obsession with range is unwarranted. I can do 95% of my trips in the Twizy.

BUT I do think to make it better to do a long trip, you'd want a higher charging rate, unfortunately for battery health, that is tied to the C rate so battery size...
The e-208 for example does 100kW, which sounds perfect for a car like that tbh.

Ah yes, the i3 did make up for the lack of charging speed by having very good efficiency. It's also deceptively large inside. It's like a completely reverse e-tron :P.