Best electric premium hatchback on the horizon?
Discussion
I wouldn’t be surprised if PHEV will make a return seeing as that’s what you guys are describing in effect. Small battery for day to day and a zero hassle solution for the other few percent of driving.
Even if for me the current 200-ish mile range at motorway speeds of most EVs works well.
Even if for me the current 200-ish mile range at motorway speeds of most EVs works well.
DMZ said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if PHEV will make a return seeing as that’s what you guys are describing in effect. Small battery for day to day and a zero hassle solution for the other few percent of driving.
Even if for me the current 200-ish mile range at motorway speeds of most EVs works well.
That means lugging an engine, gearbox, ancillaries, fuel tank etc etc around though. Might as well just have a bigger battery, lower centre of gravity, lighter weight, better performance…Even if for me the current 200-ish mile range at motorway speeds of most EVs works well.
Olibol said:
DMZ said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if PHEV will make a return seeing as that’s what you guys are describing in effect. Small battery for day to day and a zero hassle solution for the other few percent of driving.
Even if for me the current 200-ish mile range at motorway speeds of most EVs works well.
That means lugging an engine, gearbox, ancillaries, fuel tank etc etc around though. Might as well just have a bigger battery, lower centre of gravity, lighter weight, better performance…Even if for me the current 200-ish mile range at motorway speeds of most EVs works well.
SWoll said:
Agree on the PHEV complexity, but lighter weight in a BEV? As an example the BMW 330e weighs 1800KG, the i4 40 2050KG and i4 M50 2300KG
I think people were referring to a series hybrid setup with a decent sized battery which can do almost all of its driving as a pure EV. The 330e has an electric range of, what, 20 miles and has a pretty pathetic power to weight ratio on electric only anyway so wouldn't be much run to run as primarily an EV. I suspect if you look at a 250bhp electric motor and all the associated hardware plus, say, a 50kwh battery to give a decent electric range, than the weight difference between adding another 50kwh of battery or an ICE and generator is not clear-cut.
Edited by kambites on Monday 9th May 13:27
Hardly a hot hatch in the original sense but it's a hatch and it's hot:
https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/2023-hyundai-ion...
Then again my Model S is a hatch and at 762bhp it's hot, I guess for now with EV's we have to adjust our expectations a little.
Spotted a mid engined Renault 5 at the weekend, we need an EV version of that.
https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/2023-hyundai-ion...
Then again my Model S is a hatch and at 762bhp it's hot, I guess for now with EV's we have to adjust our expectations a little.
Spotted a mid engined Renault 5 at the weekend, we need an EV version of that.
RobbyJ said:
Hardly a hot hatch in the original sense but it's a hatch and it's hot:
https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/2023-hyundai-ion...
As big as an Audi Q5 though https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/2023-hyundai-ion...
Renault Megane E-Tech EV60 220hp?
Granted it's still slower than a M3P, less power, etc etc, but it's IS a small(ish) hatchback, and it doesn't have the VAG infotainment issue.
Who knows, maybe it's fun?
I drove the Born, and TBH the Kia EV6 was more exciting to drive... as was the Honda E.
Granted it's still slower than a M3P, less power, etc etc, but it's IS a small(ish) hatchback, and it doesn't have the VAG infotainment issue.
Who knows, maybe it's fun?
I drove the Born, and TBH the Kia EV6 was more exciting to drive... as was the Honda E.
- Update, just looked at the stats, it's NOT small, and weighs the same as a small moon...
I too would like a decent EV hot hatch but don't want the Tesla, I don't like the handling at all.
It's a shame VW seem to have misjudged their sportier EV offerings so far. I don't really see why there is a 'GTX' variant when the performance stats for it are extremely typical in EV world and not at all 'hot'. I understand there is to be a potential power hike.. but to 350hp? Still not exactly big news.
BMW so far seem to getting it most right although as said, the i4 is a large car, albeit also a true hatchback. As such I'd wait out for the i1 or perhaps coming sooner, the i2. There could well be a 500hp+ option in a car that would weigh something under 2000kg's.
The real problem is that whilst we love a hot hatch in Europe.. the rest of the world's biggest car markets right now tend to have a different idea of what makes a car appealing. The car makers can only get battery materials at a certain rate so they're all going to focus on the cars they can sell most easily for the highest ££ rather than flesh out their full electric portfolio.
It's a shame VW seem to have misjudged their sportier EV offerings so far. I don't really see why there is a 'GTX' variant when the performance stats for it are extremely typical in EV world and not at all 'hot'. I understand there is to be a potential power hike.. but to 350hp? Still not exactly big news.
BMW so far seem to getting it most right although as said, the i4 is a large car, albeit also a true hatchback. As such I'd wait out for the i1 or perhaps coming sooner, the i2. There could well be a 500hp+ option in a car that would weigh something under 2000kg's.
The real problem is that whilst we love a hot hatch in Europe.. the rest of the world's biggest car markets right now tend to have a different idea of what makes a car appealing. The car makers can only get battery materials at a certain rate so they're all going to focus on the cars they can sell most easily for the highest ££ rather than flesh out their full electric portfolio.
kambites said:
SWoll said:
Agree on the PHEV complexity, but lighter weight in a BEV? As an example the BMW 330e weighs 1800KG, the i4 40 2050KG and i4 M50 2300KG
I think people were referring to a series hybrid setup with a decent sized battery which can do almost all of its driving as a pure EV. The 330e has an electric range of, what, 20 miles and has a pretty pathetic power to weight ratio on electric only anyway so wouldn't be much run to run as primarily an EV. I suspect if you look at a 250bhp electric motor and all the associated hardware plus, say, a 50kwh battery to give a decent electric range, than the weight difference between adding another 50kwh of battery or an ICE and generator is not clear-cut.
Edited by kambites on Monday 9th May 13:27
The main issue are the usage corner cases, optimistically you only need a 15kw generator to keep the thing cruising on the motorway and charge the battery. However if the battery is flat there are many scenarios where you need 100kw+, e.g. climbing hills.
You've the extra complexity, cost and weight of the generator, fuel system etc all of which requires maintenance. Which runs into the classic hybrid problem of if you're using the electric drive system 99.9% of the time (especially with a 50kwh battery), then the generator is not being used, which they don't like and you're lugging around a lot of dead weight for no benefit and the point you do come to use it, then it may not work after being sat idle for too long.
Vauxhall Ampere, Fisker Karma etc, where are the follow ups?
annodomini2 said:
Vauxhall Ampere, Fisker Karma etc, where are the follow ups?
Chevy Volt sold from 2011-2019 for two generations, eventually having about 50 miles electric range.However, once government policy moved away from Plugin Extended Range Vehicles it then ceased being a viable sales product. Had the Chevy Bolt battery issues come to light sooner then perhaps Volt sales would have continued.
Evanivitch said:
annodomini2 said:
Vauxhall Ampere, Fisker Karma etc, where are the follow ups?
Chevy Volt sold from 2011-2019 for two generations, eventually having about 50 miles electric range.However, once government policy moved away from Plugin Extended Range Vehicles it then ceased being a viable sales product. Had the Chevy Bolt battery issues come to light sooner then perhaps Volt sales would have continued.
dmsims said:
ajap1979 said:
The cars you think are small, i.e the ID3 aren't really small at all. I parked my Polestar 2 next to one at a restaurant yesterday and there is barely anything in it size-wise, in fact the ID3 was much taller.
New glasses needed ?ID3 is 50mm narrower and 345mm shorter
272BHP said:
DMZ said:
Maybe the upcoming Macan EV is the answer? It’s kinda the global market friendly Porsche hot hatch. The sportier versions are quite low.
Yeah we have an eye on that one. Still might be a bit big and I wouldn't really call it a hot hatch, more like a sporty small SUV.This is where we are at. Trying to convince ourselves that an SUV is a hot hatch because the hot hatch doesn’t exist. I decided to look down size-wise rather than up and went with the mini - which as far as I can see is the only ev approximating a small sporty car. Thankfully we don’t have to worry about range as have a bigger ev too.
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