Best electric premium hatchback on the horizon?

Best electric premium hatchback on the horizon?

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Discussion

DMZ

445 posts

137 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
I wouldn’t be surprised if PHEV will make a return seeing as that’s what you guys are describing in effect. Small battery for day to day and a zero hassle solution for the other few percent of driving.

Even if for me the current 200-ish mile range at motorway speeds of most EVs works well.

Olibol

11 posts

62 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
DMZ said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if PHEV will make a return seeing as that’s what you guys are describing in effect. Small battery for day to day and a zero hassle solution for the other few percent of driving.

Even if for me the current 200-ish mile range at motorway speeds of most EVs works well.
That means lugging an engine, gearbox, ancillaries, fuel tank etc etc around though. Might as well just have a bigger battery, lower centre of gravity, lighter weight, better performance…




SWoll

14,035 posts

235 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
Olibol said:
DMZ said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if PHEV will make a return seeing as that’s what you guys are describing in effect. Small battery for day to day and a zero hassle solution for the other few percent of driving.

Even if for me the current 200-ish mile range at motorway speeds of most EVs works well.
That means lugging an engine, gearbox, ancillaries, fuel tank etc etc around though. Might as well just have a bigger battery, lower centre of gravity, lighter weight, better performance…
Agree on the PHEV complexity, but lighter weight in a BEV? As an example the BMW 330e weighs 1800KG, the i4 40 2050KG and i4 M50 2300KG

kambites

64,247 posts

198 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
SWoll said:
Agree on the PHEV complexity, but lighter weight in a BEV? As an example the BMW 330e weighs 1800KG, the i4 40 2050KG and i4 M50 2300KG
I think people were referring to a series hybrid setup with a decent sized battery which can do almost all of its driving as a pure EV. The 330e has an electric range of, what, 20 miles and has a pretty pathetic power to weight ratio on electric only anyway so wouldn't be much run to run as primarily an EV.

I suspect if you look at a 250bhp electric motor and all the associated hardware plus, say, a 50kwh battery to give a decent electric range, than the weight difference between adding another 50kwh of battery or an ICE and generator is not clear-cut.

Edited by kambites on Monday 9th May 13:27

Greenmantle

735 posts

85 months

Monday 9th May
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Renault 5
and yes in yellow

RobbyJ

1,200 posts

199 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
Hardly a hot hatch in the original sense but it's a hatch and it's hot:

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/2023-hyundai-ion...

Then again my Model S is a hatch and at 762bhp it's hot, I guess for now with EV's we have to adjust our expectations a little.

Spotted a mid engined Renault 5 at the weekend, we need an EV version of that.

ZesPak

23,592 posts

173 months

Monday 9th May
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RobbyJ said:
Hardly a hot hatch in the original sense but it's a hatch and it's hot:

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/2023-hyundai-ion...
As big as an Audi Q5 though biggrin

RobbyJ

1,200 posts

199 months

Monday 9th May
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ZesPak said:
As big as an Audi Q5 though biggrin
Very true but I was having a good nose round one in London the other day and they do look a lot more hatch like than a Q5, and hopefully with the weight low down the N version will handle better than an SQ5. Still no 205 1.9 GTI!


Bogga

42 posts

214 months

Tuesday 10th May
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Renault Megane E-Tech EV60 220hp?

Granted it's still slower than a M3P, less power, etc etc, but it's IS a small(ish) hatchback, and it doesn't have the VAG infotainment issue.

Who knows, maybe it's fun?

I drove the Born, and TBH the Kia EV6 was more exciting to drive... as was the Honda E.

  • Update, just looked at the stats, it's NOT small, and weighs the same as a small moon...

TheDeuce

13,907 posts

43 months

Tuesday 10th May
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I too would like a decent EV hot hatch but don't want the Tesla, I don't like the handling at all.

It's a shame VW seem to have misjudged their sportier EV offerings so far. I don't really see why there is a 'GTX' variant when the performance stats for it are extremely typical in EV world and not at all 'hot'. I understand there is to be a potential power hike.. but to 350hp? Still not exactly big news.

BMW so far seem to getting it most right although as said, the i4 is a large car, albeit also a true hatchback. As such I'd wait out for the i1 or perhaps coming sooner, the i2. There could well be a 500hp+ option in a car that would weigh something under 2000kg's.

The real problem is that whilst we love a hot hatch in Europe.. the rest of the world's biggest car markets right now tend to have a different idea of what makes a car appealing. The car makers can only get battery materials at a certain rate so they're all going to focus on the cars they can sell most easily for the highest ££ rather than flesh out their full electric portfolio.

annodomini2

6,563 posts

228 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
kambites said:
SWoll said:
Agree on the PHEV complexity, but lighter weight in a BEV? As an example the BMW 330e weighs 1800KG, the i4 40 2050KG and i4 M50 2300KG
I think people were referring to a series hybrid setup with a decent sized battery which can do almost all of its driving as a pure EV. The 330e has an electric range of, what, 20 miles and has a pretty pathetic power to weight ratio on electric only anyway so wouldn't be much run to run as primarily an EV.

I suspect if you look at a 250bhp electric motor and all the associated hardware plus, say, a 50kwh battery to give a decent electric range, than the weight difference between adding another 50kwh of battery or an ICE and generator is not clear-cut.

Edited by kambites on Monday 9th May 13:27
Series hybrids aren't practical, if battery energy density was lower and/or charging speeds were much lower, they might make sense.

The main issue are the usage corner cases, optimistically you only need a 15kw generator to keep the thing cruising on the motorway and charge the battery. However if the battery is flat there are many scenarios where you need 100kw+, e.g. climbing hills.

You've the extra complexity, cost and weight of the generator, fuel system etc all of which requires maintenance. Which runs into the classic hybrid problem of if you're using the electric drive system 99.9% of the time (especially with a 50kwh battery), then the generator is not being used, which they don't like and you're lugging around a lot of dead weight for no benefit and the point you do come to use it, then it may not work after being sat idle for too long.

Vauxhall Ampere, Fisker Karma etc, where are the follow ups?




Evanivitch

12,972 posts

99 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
annodomini2 said:
Vauxhall Ampere, Fisker Karma etc, where are the follow ups?
Chevy Volt sold from 2011-2019 for two generations, eventually having about 50 miles electric range.

However, once government policy moved away from Plugin Extended Range Vehicles it then ceased being a viable sales product. Had the Chevy Bolt battery issues come to light sooner then perhaps Volt sales would have continued.

annodomini2

6,563 posts

228 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
annodomini2 said:
Vauxhall Ampere, Fisker Karma etc, where are the follow ups?
Chevy Volt sold from 2011-2019 for two generations, eventually having about 50 miles electric range.

However, once government policy moved away from Plugin Extended Range Vehicles it then ceased being a viable sales product. Had the Chevy Bolt battery issues come to light sooner then perhaps Volt sales would have continued.
2nd gen was never sold in the UK

dmsims

5,153 posts

244 months

Wednesday 11th May
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ajap1979 said:
The cars you think are small, i.e the ID3 aren't really small at all. I parked my Polestar 2 next to one at a restaurant yesterday and there is barely anything in it size-wise, in fact the ID3 was much taller.
New glasses needed ?

ID3 is 50mm narrower and 345mm shorter

ajap1979

5,735 posts

164 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
dmsims said:
ajap1979 said:
The cars you think are small, i.e the ID3 aren't really small at all. I parked my Polestar 2 next to one at a restaurant yesterday and there is barely anything in it size-wise, in fact the ID3 was much taller.
New glasses needed ?

ID3 is 50mm narrower and 345mm shorter
Visual perception is very different to on-paper statistics. Take your point on the length, but 5cm difference in width isn't going to be appreciable. The ID3 is nearly 10cm taller, which combined with the one box design, makes it look quite big.

DMZ

445 posts

137 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
Maybe the upcoming Macan EV is the answer? It’s kinda the global market friendly Porsche hot hatch. The sportier versions are quite low.

272BHP

Original Poster:

3,079 posts

213 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
DMZ said:
Maybe the upcoming Macan EV is the answer? It’s kinda the global market friendly Porsche hot hatch. The sportier versions are quite low.
Yeah we have an eye on that one. Still might be a bit big and I wouldn't really call it a hot hatch, more like a sporty small SUV.

TheDeuce

13,907 posts

43 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
272BHP said:
DMZ said:
Maybe the upcoming Macan EV is the answer? It’s kinda the global market friendly Porsche hot hatch. The sportier versions are quite low.
Yeah we have an eye on that one. Still might be a bit big and I wouldn't really call it a hot hatch, more like a sporty small SUV.
I'd say about the same as my iPace, which is basically more of a super-sized hatch back than an SUV.

Olibol

11 posts

62 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
This is where we are at. Trying to convince ourselves that an SUV is a hot hatch because the hot hatch doesn’t exist. I decided to look down size-wise rather than up and went with the mini - which as far as I can see is the only ev approximating a small sporty car. Thankfully we don’t have to worry about range as have a bigger ev too.

272BHP

Original Poster:

3,079 posts

213 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
The more I think about it the more I just want to try and get back in one of the last BMW i3s

So close to perfection - we will surely never see its like again.