Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet???
Discussion
I have deleted my initial message from this topic.
The "word police" deleted my initial op, its now (amended) on page 7
[footnote]Edited by whirlybird on Monday 8th August 13:06[/footnote
There seems to be a push to convert existing classics into EV, & Planet Friendly transport !!!
A company in London and I am sure in many other places can convert said classic for around £30,000 (FFS)
Now how about crunching these numbers !!! take a Mini, a rebuilt A- Series, I guess costs about £3000 + - ?
leaving £27,000 for lovely PETROL, and even at today's rip-off fuel prices would give you approximately 120,000 miles, with no fear of
Range Anxiety,
If anybody actually think they're saving the planet by buying a huge EV BMW X3 then I sorry, but simply cannot agree ( This is the clean version ) Discuss.
The "word police" deleted my initial op, its now (amended) on page 7
[footnote]Edited by whirlybird on Monday 8th August 13:06[/footnote
There seems to be a push to convert existing classics into EV, & Planet Friendly transport !!!
A company in London and I am sure in many other places can convert said classic for around £30,000 (FFS)
Now how about crunching these numbers !!! take a Mini, a rebuilt A- Series, I guess costs about £3000 + - ?
leaving £27,000 for lovely PETROL, and even at today's rip-off fuel prices would give you approximately 120,000 miles, with no fear of
Range Anxiety,
If anybody actually think they're saving the planet by buying a huge EV BMW X3 then I sorry, but simply cannot agree ( This is the clean version ) Discuss.
Edited by whirlybird on Monday 8th August 19:40
Hear hear. Politics aside (as much as possible) why on Earth would we choose to put levies on necessities like electricity to cook and keep warm, plus bully people into giving up the vehicles they love for electric cars they will never be able to afford, plus ruin millions of peoples' lives in other ways, when the UK makes 0.9% of the world's pollution? UNTIL the countries currently building coal stations rapidly and the ones with countless ancient bangers running around their cities change their ways, you may as well tell your kid not to pee in the ocean in the UK. Electric cars are not the long term answer. I have owned 2 and driven several. Yes they have advantages but far too many bad points.
I’m sure if we had all had EVS before and where now talking about building massive rigs to drill into the sea bed to suck out dead dinosaurs, that sometimes spill some into the sea killing millions of birds, coral and fish, before refining it into a explosive liquid to the fill up a tank with it every few hundred miles and then polluting the air in our cities with the fumes and gases which then warm up the planet we would think it was a great idea that made so much sense
Nickbrapp said:
I’m sure if we had all had EVS before and where now talking about building massive rigs to drill into the sea bed to suck out dead dinosaurs, that sometimes spill some into the sea killing millions of birds, coral and fish, before refining it into a explosive liquid to the fill up a tank with it every few hundred miles and then polluting the air in our cities with the fumes and gases which then warm up the planet we would think it was a great idea that made so much sense
Electric cars run on power sourced from the very things the nett zero loons want to abolish.I cannot see how building an electric car can, or ever will, use less energy/fuel than an IC car.
The basic structure is roughly the same, but now fill the drivetrain with copper(Heavy and expensive) cables,
etc. Battery packs using even more energy to produce than they would ever return in motive power, + disposal at end of life
and if Mr Musks Mega factories did not use fossil fuel in there construction, how many wind turbines would need to be used to supply energy, And wind turbines need to be built in factories too, hence my initial thread > EV cars are the planets biggest con/lie .
The basic structure is roughly the same, but now fill the drivetrain with copper(Heavy and expensive) cables,
etc. Battery packs using even more energy to produce than they would ever return in motive power, + disposal at end of life
and if Mr Musks Mega factories did not use fossil fuel in there construction, how many wind turbines would need to be used to supply energy, And wind turbines need to be built in factories too, hence my initial thread > EV cars are the planets biggest con/lie .
Nickbrapp said:
I’m sure if we had all had EVS before and where now talking about building massive rigs to drill into the sea bed to suck out dead dinosaurs, that sometimes spill some into the sea killing millions of birds, coral and fish, before refining it into a explosive liquid to the fill up a tank with it every few hundred miles and then polluting the air in our cities with the fumes and gases which then warm up the planet we would think it was a great idea that made so much sense
Exactly!Imagine 100 years of BEV being normal and then some moron comes along and announces that the future of personal transport is to be propelled along the road by 3000 explosions per minute with the resultant fumes pouring out of a tube at the back.
BEV ain't a con, and no it's not perfect - nothing is. But it's sensible progress and the best option available today taking all things into account.
Deciding there is no reason to change course because the new course isn't perfect is the mark of an idiot. It's about better, not perfect.
In order to give a balanced view on my thread, can someone give the expected lifespan, of both core vehicle and battery pack, this I consider 2 separate structures to consider, possibly a third element to consider could/would be the 'electronics/computer hard and software', And who is going to buy a 10 year old Nissan Leaf. ???? It won't be me, for sure.
Gary C said:
Electrics not for me said:
Electric cars run on power sourced from the very things the nett zero loons want to abolish.
the question is, do you believe CO2 will change the environment to our detriment ?Obviously most power still comes from power stations, but it's about improvement, not evangelism. BEV's will also help to make the most of wind and solar in the near future, a lot of which is currently wasted.
TheDeuce said:
Gary C said:
Electrics not for me said:
Electric cars run on power sourced from the very things the nett zero loons want to abolish.
the question is, do you believe CO2 will change the environment to our detriment ?Obviously most power still comes from power stations, but it's about improvement, not evangelism. BEV's will also help to make the most of wind and solar in the near future, a lot of which is currently wasted.
"Obviously most power still comes from power stations, but it's about improvement, not evangelism. BEV's will also help to make the most of wind and solar in the near future, a lot of which is currently wasted."
BUT, power stations, solar panels and wind turbines need energy to manufacture, so at what point does a wind turbine start to produce more energy than it took to build ?? I guess several years.
the core issue is energy use to produce energy efficient products, nobody has yet invented 'free energy"
Bit like Chicken and Egg, who built the first Lathe ??? because to make a Lathe you need a Lathe, see my point.
BUT, power stations, solar panels and wind turbines need energy to manufacture, so at what point does a wind turbine start to produce more energy than it took to build ?? I guess several years.
the core issue is energy use to produce energy efficient products, nobody has yet invented 'free energy"
Bit like Chicken and Egg, who built the first Lathe ??? because to make a Lathe you need a Lathe, see my point.
Gary C said:
TheDeuce said:
Gary C said:
Electrics not for me said:
Electric cars run on power sourced from the very things the nett zero loons want to abolish.
the question is, do you believe CO2 will change the environment to our detriment ?Obviously most power still comes from power stations, but it's about improvement, not evangelism. BEV's will also help to make the most of wind and solar in the near future, a lot of which is currently wasted.
I hesitated to talk about beliefs because whilst I accept man has had a detrimental influence, I think the media has exaggerated how big that influence is. For example, there are constant stories about the polar ice caps melting, but they're not even supposed to be there in the first place, they're a relic of the last ice age that we're still technically exiting. Has mankind sped that process up? yes, but by about 100 years apparently, which on a geological timescale is hardly worth thinking about. But it is worth reducing that influence if we can, and we can.
but over and above all that, I'm an engineer and I recognise the common sense behind BEV, it's a better way to make a car. It's also more efficient than ICE on many a level, regardless of planet saving efficiencies. It's a better machine from start to finish which appeals to me. I also have a soul though, and fully intend to buy a V8 M3 coupe as soon as prices settle down - as an investment, and also so that one day a week I may get to do a tiny bit of global damage and smell the smell of hot tyres and petrol. Please don't mistake me for an eco-warrior
whirlybird said:
"Obviously most power still comes from power stations, but it's about improvement, not evangelism. BEV's will also help to make the most of wind and solar in the near future, a lot of which is currently wasted."
BUT, power stations, solar panels and wind turbines need energy to manufacture, so at what point does a wind turbine start to produce more energy than it took to build ?? I guess several years.
the core issue is energy use to produce energy efficient products, nobody has yet invented 'free energy"
Bit like Chicken and Egg, who built the first Lathe ??? because to make a Lathe you need a Lathe, see my point.
The greenest form of power generation overall, including build costs and maintenance is actually nuclear. And it's safe enough at this point to be a sensible choice.BUT, power stations, solar panels and wind turbines need energy to manufacture, so at what point does a wind turbine start to produce more energy than it took to build ?? I guess several years.
the core issue is energy use to produce energy efficient products, nobody has yet invented 'free energy"
Bit like Chicken and Egg, who built the first Lathe ??? because to make a Lathe you need a Lathe, see my point.
It's a tough sell though! BoJo was struggling to make a case for it even before he was caught out for having Christmas drinks...
Anyway as I keep saying, the fact you can point to what is being proposed and identify faults isn't useful or important. Nothing is perfect. It's far better to generate power centrally and deliver it into car in the form of electricity than it is to install a mini power plant inside every car - which is what ICE is. If, in addition to that, the power plants themselves can be improved in terms of efficiency, then everyone wins.
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