Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet???
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
The greenest form of power generation overall, including build costs and maintenance is actually nuclear. And it's safe enough at this point to be a sensible choice.
It's a tough sell though! BoJo was struggling to make a case for it even before he was caught out for having Christmas drinks...
Anyway as I keep saying, the fact you can point to what is being proposed and identify faults isn't useful or important. Nothing is perfect. It's far better to generate power centrally and deliver it into car in the form of electricity than it is to install a mini power plant inside every car - which is what ICE is. If, in addition to that, the power plants themselves can be improved in terms of efficiency, then everyone wins.
???? Does Chernobyl come to mind ????, No power , no EV cars going anywhere !!!!!It's a tough sell though! BoJo was struggling to make a case for it even before he was caught out for having Christmas drinks...
Anyway as I keep saying, the fact you can point to what is being proposed and identify faults isn't useful or important. Nothing is perfect. It's far better to generate power centrally and deliver it into car in the form of electricity than it is to install a mini power plant inside every car - which is what ICE is. If, in addition to that, the power plants themselves can be improved in terms of efficiency, then everyone wins.
If I lunch an IC motor, off to the dealer/scrappy/ebay and off we go, happy days.
whirlybird said:
I didn't delete my original message, so who did ????
And another thought
after 2030 will Piston Heads have to change its name to "Comutator Heads "
Are they planning on scrapping all ICE cars worldwide overnight and forcing everyone to buy an EV? Now that is news.And another thought
after 2030 will Piston Heads have to change its name to "Comutator Heads "
You're very obviously ill informed and a number of years behind the curve. Perhaps go away, do some research and come up with an original thought?
whirlybird said:
???? Does Chernobyl come to mind ????, No power , no EV cars going anywhere !!!!!
If I lunch an IC motor, off to the dealer/scrappy/ebay and off we go, happy days.
On second thoughts, I'd give up now if that's an example of your powers of reasoning.If I lunch an IC motor, off to the dealer/scrappy/ebay and off we go, happy days.
Edited by SWoll on Saturday 6th August 22:14
whirlybird said:
TheDeuce said:
The greenest form of power generation overall, including build costs and maintenance is actually nuclear. And it's safe enough at this point to be a sensible choice.
It's a tough sell though! BoJo was struggling to make a case for it even before he was caught out for having Christmas drinks...
Anyway as I keep saying, the fact you can point to what is being proposed and identify faults isn't useful or important. Nothing is perfect. It's far better to generate power centrally and deliver it into car in the form of electricity than it is to install a mini power plant inside every car - which is what ICE is. If, in addition to that, the power plants themselves can be improved in terms of efficiency, then everyone wins.
???? Does Chernobyl come to mind ????, No power , no EV cars going anywhere !!!!!It's a tough sell though! BoJo was struggling to make a case for it even before he was caught out for having Christmas drinks...
Anyway as I keep saying, the fact you can point to what is being proposed and identify faults isn't useful or important. Nothing is perfect. It's far better to generate power centrally and deliver it into car in the form of electricity than it is to install a mini power plant inside every car - which is what ICE is. If, in addition to that, the power plants themselves can be improved in terms of efficiency, then everyone wins.
If I lunch an IC motor, off to the dealer/scrappy/ebay and off we go, happy days.
If we're to move forwards people need to stop pointing to problems of the past and start to look as solutions for the future with a fresh mindset. Look at where we are today, not where a poorly regulated administration was decades ago.
If it makes you feel better I also wouldn't recommend we all go out and buy communist manufactured cars from that time period either. But these days, I would recommend a few contemporary communist state cars.
SWoll said:
whirlybird said:
I didn't delete my original message, so who did ????
And another thought
after 2030 will Piston Heads have to change its name to "Comutator Heads "
Are they planning on scrapping all ICE cars worldwide overnight and forcing everyone to buy an EV? Now that is news.And another thought
after 2030 will Piston Heads have to change its name to "Comutator Heads "
You're very obviously ill informed and a number of years behind the curve. Perhaps go away, do some research and come up with an original thought?
Why buy a copy of the Daily Fail when the within hours it's all repeated on here anyway..
TheDeuce said:
Nickbrapp said:
I’m sure if we had all had EVS before and where now talking about building massive rigs to drill into the sea bed to suck out dead dinosaurs, that sometimes spill some into the sea killing millions of birds, coral and fish, before refining it into a explosive liquid to the fill up a tank with it every few hundred miles and then polluting the air in our cities with the fumes and gases which then warm up the planet we would think it was a great idea that made so much sense
Exactly!Imagine 100 years of BEV being normal and then some moron comes along and announces that the future of personal transport is to be propelled along the road by 3000 explosions per minute with the resultant fumes pouring out of a tube at the back.
BEV ain't a con, and no it's not perfect - nothing is. But it's sensible progress and the best option available today taking all things into account.
Deciding there is no reason to change course because the new course isn't perfect is the mark of an idiot. It's about better, not perfect.
captain.scarlet said:
TheDeuce said:
Nickbrapp said:
I’m sure if we had all had EVS before and where now talking about building massive rigs to drill into the sea bed to suck out dead dinosaurs, that sometimes spill some into the sea killing millions of birds, coral and fish, before refining it into a explosive liquid to the fill up a tank with it every few hundred miles and then polluting the air in our cities with the fumes and gases which then warm up the planet we would think it was a great idea that made so much sense
Exactly!Imagine 100 years of BEV being normal and then some moron comes along and announces that the future of personal transport is to be propelled along the road by 3000 explosions per minute with the resultant fumes pouring out of a tube at the back.
BEV ain't a con, and no it's not perfect - nothing is. But it's sensible progress and the best option available today taking all things into account.
Deciding there is no reason to change course because the new course isn't perfect is the mark of an idiot. It's about better, not perfect.
The vast majority buying EV's are more than aware pollution still exists and tbh environmental concerns are not typically the main reason to choose an EV anyway.
But it's not at all as simple as you make out. It's a complex equations for both ICE and EV and overall EV is the most environmentally friendly choice. No one with half a brain thinks it's guilt free though, and only a person with less than a full brain would think that was what was driving the change.
Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 6th August 22:37
TheDeuce said:
Catch up with mate.
The vast majority buying EV's are more than aware pollution still exists and tbh environmental concerns are not typically the main reason to choose an EV anyway.
But it's not at all as simple as you make out. It's a complex equations for both ICE and EV and overall EV is the most environmentally friendly choice. No one with half a brain thinks it's guilt free though, and only a person with less than a full brain would think that was what was driving the change.
Low BIK and high petrol proces are what is driving the change. Remove the tax incentives and make petrol £1 a litre and see how many people swap.The vast majority buying EV's are more than aware pollution still exists and tbh environmental concerns are not typically the main reason to choose an EV anyway.
But it's not at all as simple as you make out. It's a complex equations for both ICE and EV and overall EV is the most environmentally friendly choice. No one with half a brain thinks it's guilt free though, and only a person with less than a full brain would think that was what was driving the change.
On the pollution thing, I've always assumed that removing street level pollution in heavily populated and often poor areas is a good thing. And of course Petrol/Diesel doesn't just magically arrive at the pump. It's collection, refinement and transport needs to be considered along with the pollution caused by its end use. As you say, a lot to consider.
Fastlane said:
This anti-EV trolling is just getting tragic.
0 out of 10 for effort or originality.
It doe appear to be getting more and more agressive though I've noticed, which I'd suggest doesn't bode well.0 out of 10 for effort or originality.
SWoll said:
Low BIK and high petrol proces are what is driving the change. Remove the tax incentives and make petrol £1 a litre and see how many people swap.
Let people opt out of paying to treat their sewage and the rivers would run with s
t. Let them dump their garbage in the street and we’d be up to our necks in rats and flies. captain.scarlet said:
EVs simply shift the pollution and emissions somewhere else in the chain (where, mistakenly, it is out of sight and other senses, out of mind), be it (for example) in the mining of parts for the battery, the manufacture of the vehicle itself, the charging of the vehicle or the life cycle of the battery, its disposal and its replacement.
Of course there’s still pollution involved in building a EV, but it’s not in the middle of the city and a EV is still cleaner because a big bulk of the energy powering it is renewables, that’s not the case for petrol, which by the way, those cars aren’t just made from dust, mining happens to make the steel and the batteries in them and the circuit boards getting flown from China.It always makes me laugh people go on and on about WHAT ABOUT THE BATTERY MINING, but then are perfectly content to type that on their smart phone that they replace every 2 years or on the laptop which again has a battery in it which at some point will more than likely end up in landfill.
It’s a lazy way to moan about progress. If people don’t like EV then fine, don’t buy one, it’s not hard.
As a lifelong ICE fan I have had amazing experiences with them..
However, if you look at the plans of any large manufacturer the direction is unmistakable. ICE cars will not disappear in a single day, but I expect production of new ICE cars to last less than 10 years.
I would expect to keep my current ICE cars and probably add some kind of EV for city use which will be small and easy to park.
I also expect that we will see the infotainment and comfort controls on all new cars to move to the phone so that the car has less complexity to get obsolescent. Even with existing cars this is a problem. I have an old Mercedes SL 500 with a Nav system that consists of 8 CDs which you change when entering a different region, a GT3RS with a tiny nav screen and so one. Getting all of the stuff onto the phone allows much better upgrading over time.
We can argue all we want on the web, but the direction is very clear.
However, if you look at the plans of any large manufacturer the direction is unmistakable. ICE cars will not disappear in a single day, but I expect production of new ICE cars to last less than 10 years.
I would expect to keep my current ICE cars and probably add some kind of EV for city use which will be small and easy to park.
I also expect that we will see the infotainment and comfort controls on all new cars to move to the phone so that the car has less complexity to get obsolescent. Even with existing cars this is a problem. I have an old Mercedes SL 500 with a Nav system that consists of 8 CDs which you change when entering a different region, a GT3RS with a tiny nav screen and so one. Getting all of the stuff onto the phone allows much better upgrading over time.
We can argue all we want on the web, but the direction is very clear.
TheDeuce said:
The greenest form of power generation overall, including build costs and maintenance is actually nuclear.
I've not seen a single study that agrees with that. Can you reference once?I will accept that renewables inevitably require huge amounts of storage to function as a viable grid, and as yet I've yet to see a value placed on that storage ability.
captain.scarlet said:
EVs simply shift the pollution and emissions somewhere else in the chain (where, mistakenly, it is out of sight and other senses, out of mind), be it (for example) in the mining of parts for the battery, the manufacture of the vehicle itself, the charging of the vehicle or the life cycle of the battery, its disposal and its replacement.
It's almost as if you believe the manufacturing of cars and constant production of petroleum products is emission free?RDMcG said:
As a lifelong ICE fan I have had amazing experiences with them..
However, if you look at the plans of any large manufacturer the direction is unmistakable. ICE cars will not disappear in a single day, but I expect production of new ICE cars to last less than 10 years.
I would expect to keep my current ICE cars and probably add some kind of EV for city use which will be small and easy to park.
I also expect that we will see the infotainment and comfort controls on all new cars to move to the phone so that the car has less complexity to get obsolescent. Even with existing cars this is a problem. I have an old Mercedes SL 500 with a Nav system that consists of 8 CDs which you change when entering a different region, a GT3RS with a tiny nav screen and so one. Getting all of the stuff onto the phone allows much better upgrading over time.
We can argue all we want on the web, but the direction is very clear.
Your closing statement is one I repeat often. This is no longer up for debate, the direction is set - I can't think of any such shift since WW2 when so many governments united on set targets to bring about change. It's totally a done deal, we go BEV for new cars and that's about as simple as a car can become - a battery and a motor, as simple as Scalextric car from the 60's.. Beyond that, we also look to greener/cleaner ways of generating power.However, if you look at the plans of any large manufacturer the direction is unmistakable. ICE cars will not disappear in a single day, but I expect production of new ICE cars to last less than 10 years.
I would expect to keep my current ICE cars and probably add some kind of EV for city use which will be small and easy to park.
I also expect that we will see the infotainment and comfort controls on all new cars to move to the phone so that the car has less complexity to get obsolescent. Even with existing cars this is a problem. I have an old Mercedes SL 500 with a Nav system that consists of 8 CDs which you change when entering a different region, a GT3RS with a tiny nav screen and so one. Getting all of the stuff onto the phone allows much better upgrading over time.
We can argue all we want on the web, but the direction is very clear.
BEV solves 'enough' of the car pollution debate to accept the change ad move on to other areas of improvement further up the chain.
otolith said:
SWoll said:
Low BIK and high petrol proces are what is driving the change. Remove the tax incentives and make petrol £1 a litre and see how many people swap.
Let people opt out of paying to treat their sewage and the rivers would run with st. Let them dump their garbage in the street and we’d be up to our necks in rats and flies. That doesn't mean ICE cars should be banned, but you at least need to own up to your choice.
Maybe worth remembering that oil isn’t forever, is mostly in the hands of people I would rather not give money to, and I’m not sure they can be trusted either. If most of the energy can be generated locally in a renewable way, it will have an enormously positive impact on pretty much everything. I do enjoy making bang bang noises but to argue that oil has a sensible sustainable future is utterly daft. We need to get off it at some stage so it may as well be now.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff