Dealer: the Taycan was good for us; it's now a disaster
Discussion
Interesting observations gleaned from a car dealer forum.
https://twitter.com/hiltonholloway/status/16367342...
https://twitter.com/hiltonholloway/status/16367342...
Buyer of depreciating asset has regret that its dropping more than they expected shocker.
"EV values plummeting"
"Buyers of expensive EV's worried about long term values"
"Market worried about second hand values of EV's"
Yeah yeah. In the 30 years that I have been buying cars only once did I ever get back what I paid for one, which was a BMW i3 that we had for nearly 3 years and I sold at the peak last year. Got what I paid for it after nearly 20k miles. Great. Did it! Only the once, but great. A car I didnt lose my shirt on. But I have always gone into buying a car with the knowledge that it will always drop in value and I "might" be lucky and have it not drop like a stone.
If you are lucky enough to be able to afford an expensive car, I am pretty sure you should make sure you can handle the depreciation too. Its not as if the Taycan is a crap car!
"EV values plummeting"
"Buyers of expensive EV's worried about long term values"
"Market worried about second hand values of EV's"
Yeah yeah. In the 30 years that I have been buying cars only once did I ever get back what I paid for one, which was a BMW i3 that we had for nearly 3 years and I sold at the peak last year. Got what I paid for it after nearly 20k miles. Great. Did it! Only the once, but great. A car I didnt lose my shirt on. But I have always gone into buying a car with the knowledge that it will always drop in value and I "might" be lucky and have it not drop like a stone.
If you are lucky enough to be able to afford an expensive car, I am pretty sure you should make sure you can handle the depreciation too. Its not as if the Taycan is a crap car!
Sheepshanks said:
Old news, been discussed on here for a while. Dealers are buying again now.
There's two separate issues though, volatility in the market causes risk to the dealer, so they don't buy. Take out the volatility and they can buy again, but is that at the old rate of depreciation or a higher rate?There's a fundamental market distortion in play here; the tax situation means that the demand for leased new EVs is out of proportion to the demand for expensive two year old EVs that don't come with massive tax incentives. The only way that plays out is with huge depreciation, which then pushes up the lease costs, eroding the tax benefit until new supply and 2-year demand become realigned.
paulrockliffe said:
Sheepshanks said:
Old news, been discussed on here for a while. Dealers are buying again now.
There's two separate issues though, volatility in the market causes risk to the dealer, so they don't buy. Take out the volatility and they can buy again, but is that at the old rate of depreciation or a higher rate?There's a fundamental market distortion in play here; the tax situation means that the demand for leased new EVs is out of proportion to the demand for expensive two year old EVs that don't come with massive tax incentives. The only way that plays out is with huge depreciation, which then pushes up the lease costs, eroding the tax benefit until new supply and 2-year demand become realigned.
But you're right, the market is distorted, partly be tax incentives but also the car market itself, in its entirety, has been distorted simply by high demand at a time when supply has struggled. For a period cars gained value... It'll all settle down again - eventually. And then get flipped on it's head again when the ICE deadlines are looming and people suddenly don't want to buy the millions of second hand ICE cars that will be for sale at that point!
I can well believe that specifically used Taycan's are a tricky proposition for independent dealers to accept as a trade in, but in general the independents are going to have to be very smart and 'on it' throughout this transition period - there are endless shifts in buyer preference that could rapidly leave them with a yard half full of cars that no one will buy if they don't heavily cut the prices and flog them for a loss.
Transitioning away from ICE is sensible in my view, but that does not mean it's going to be a smooth process - it absolutely won't be.
TheDeuce said:
Actually the huge tax incentive (BIK) does apply to a used EV, they make great company cars for the millions that operate a Ltd in the UK.
But you're right, the market is distorted, partly be tax incentives but also the car market itself, in its entirety, has been distorted simply by high demand at a time when supply has struggled. For a period cars gained value... It'll all settle down again - eventually. And then get flipped on it's head again when the ICE deadlines are looming and people suddenly don't want to buy the millions of second hand ICE cars that will be for sale at that point!
I can well believe that specifically used Taycan's are a tricky proposition for independent dealers to accept as a trade in, but in general the independents are going to have to be very smart and 'on it' throughout this transition period - there are endless shifts in buyer preference that could rapidly leave them with a yard half full of cars that no one will buy if they don't heavily cut the prices and flog them for a loss.
Transitioning away from ICE is sensible in my view, but that does not mean it's going to be a smooth process - it absolutely won't be.
Not all the 'millions' who operate LTD Co's in the UK have 70k to spend on a used car, and not all of them would if they could.But you're right, the market is distorted, partly be tax incentives but also the car market itself, in its entirety, has been distorted simply by high demand at a time when supply has struggled. For a period cars gained value... It'll all settle down again - eventually. And then get flipped on it's head again when the ICE deadlines are looming and people suddenly don't want to buy the millions of second hand ICE cars that will be for sale at that point!
I can well believe that specifically used Taycan's are a tricky proposition for independent dealers to accept as a trade in, but in general the independents are going to have to be very smart and 'on it' throughout this transition period - there are endless shifts in buyer preference that could rapidly leave them with a yard half full of cars that no one will buy if they don't heavily cut the prices and flog them for a loss.
Transitioning away from ICE is sensible in my view, but that does not mean it's going to be a smooth process - it absolutely won't be.
If you've got £70k of actual money, there are many other opportunities to spend it.
Used Taycans, there seems to be a shipload on autotarder, they look over priced compared to leasing a new one.
It's not like they 've dropped below the price of a new Skoda is it?
Based on this guys experiences of owning a toucan I woud not have one for free.
Limp mode restricted to 60 mph and 200 odd horsepower - at least your ICE car doesn’t do that when you get to 50 mile range.
As for paying a grand to have your windscreen washer juice replaced and drain holes inspected, there are Mayfair call girls who can do the same job for 25 percent of the price in an hour.
https://youtu.be/DKHtNqO2knc
Pains me to say it but if you are buying in that range you are just better off with a Tesla Model S long range, nobody is fooled that your toucan is a proper Porsche and i’d hardly say crawling along the M1 with no bearing on stressing about charging up is the sort of premium executive experience you’d walk past a M5, E63, or RS6 to enjoy.
Limp mode restricted to 60 mph and 200 odd horsepower - at least your ICE car doesn’t do that when you get to 50 mile range.
As for paying a grand to have your windscreen washer juice replaced and drain holes inspected, there are Mayfair call girls who can do the same job for 25 percent of the price in an hour.
https://youtu.be/DKHtNqO2knc
Pains me to say it but if you are buying in that range you are just better off with a Tesla Model S long range, nobody is fooled that your toucan is a proper Porsche and i’d hardly say crawling along the M1 with no bearing on stressing about charging up is the sort of premium executive experience you’d walk past a M5, E63, or RS6 to enjoy.
Had a look at this as my employer has recently introduced an EV salary sacrifice scheme.
Cheapest Taycan on Autotrader is £67,500 and 3 year old, 58k on the clock. Private sale so limited / no warranty.
Assuming 4.9% interest, 50% depreciation and £7.5 deposit, my monthly payments would be £943. Insurance, tyres, servicing and warranty (or repairs) would all be my problem.
Brand new Taycan is £985 net cost through the work scheme, all costs covered and slight higher annual mileage (PCP calc only offered 10 or 15k? Company deal is 12k).
So for £42 a month more ( £1512 over 3 years) I get insurance, servicing, tyres etc and a brand new car vs the cheapest one on the market.
Cheapest Taycan on Autotrader is £67,500 and 3 year old, 58k on the clock. Private sale so limited / no warranty.
Assuming 4.9% interest, 50% depreciation and £7.5 deposit, my monthly payments would be £943. Insurance, tyres, servicing and warranty (or repairs) would all be my problem.
Brand new Taycan is £985 net cost through the work scheme, all costs covered and slight higher annual mileage (PCP calc only offered 10 or 15k? Company deal is 12k).
So for £42 a month more ( £1512 over 3 years) I get insurance, servicing, tyres etc and a brand new car vs the cheapest one on the market.
survivalist said:
Had a look at this as my employer has recently introduced an EV salary sacrifice scheme.
Cheapest Taycan on Autotrader is £67,500 and 3 year old, 58k on the clock. Private sale so limited / no warranty.
Assuming 4.9% interest, 50% depreciation and £7.5 deposit, my monthly payments would be £943. Insurance, tyres, servicing and warranty (or repairs) would all be my problem.
Brand new Taycan is £985 net cost through the work scheme, all costs covered and slight higher annual mileage (PCP calc only offered 10 or 15k? Company deal is 12k).
So for £42 a month more ( £1512 over 3 years) I get insurance, servicing, tyres etc and a brand new car vs the cheapest one on the market.
And if you can do those sums why the chuff are these independent dealers taking them as part exchanges? They should offer a lot less for the px and drive the used prices down.Cheapest Taycan on Autotrader is £67,500 and 3 year old, 58k on the clock. Private sale so limited / no warranty.
Assuming 4.9% interest, 50% depreciation and £7.5 deposit, my monthly payments would be £943. Insurance, tyres, servicing and warranty (or repairs) would all be my problem.
Brand new Taycan is £985 net cost through the work scheme, all costs covered and slight higher annual mileage (PCP calc only offered 10 or 15k? Company deal is 12k).
So for £42 a month more ( £1512 over 3 years) I get insurance, servicing, tyres etc and a brand new car vs the cheapest one on the market.
Obviously there is still significant value in the car but as used it has to also be significantly cheaper than a brand new one..
survivalist said:
Had a look at this as my employer has recently introduced an EV salary sacrifice scheme.
Cheapest Taycan on Autotrader is £67,500 and 3 year old, 58k on the clock. Private sale so limited / no warranty.
Assuming 4.9% interest, 50% depreciation and £7.5 deposit, my monthly payments would be £943. Insurance, tyres, servicing and warranty (or repairs) would all be my problem.
Brand new Taycan is £985 net cost through the work scheme, all costs covered and slight higher annual mileage (PCP calc only offered 10 or 15k? Company deal is 12k).
So for £42 a month more ( £1512 over 3 years) I get insurance, servicing, tyres etc and a brand new car vs the cheapest one on the market.
That’s a great deal - for the company supplying the car. They’re getting almost 2 grand a month.Cheapest Taycan on Autotrader is £67,500 and 3 year old, 58k on the clock. Private sale so limited / no warranty.
Assuming 4.9% interest, 50% depreciation and £7.5 deposit, my monthly payments would be £943. Insurance, tyres, servicing and warranty (or repairs) would all be my problem.
Brand new Taycan is £985 net cost through the work scheme, all costs covered and slight higher annual mileage (PCP calc only offered 10 or 15k? Company deal is 12k).
So for £42 a month more ( £1512 over 3 years) I get insurance, servicing, tyres etc and a brand new car vs the cheapest one on the market.
There’s been talk of stopping this for years - everything would be cheaper if you could get it by salary sacrifice - so grab it while you can.
survivalist said:
Had a look at this as my employer has recently introduced an EV salary sacrifice scheme.
Cheapest Taycan on Autotrader is £67,500 and 3 year old, 58k on the clock. Private sale so limited / no warranty.
Assuming 4.9% interest, 50% depreciation and £7.5 deposit, my monthly payments would be £943. Insurance, tyres, servicing and warranty (or repairs) would all be my problem.
Brand new Taycan is £985 net cost through the work scheme, all costs covered and slight higher annual mileage (PCP calc only offered 10 or 15k? Company deal is 12k).
So for £42 a month more ( £1512 over 3 years) I get insurance, servicing, tyres etc and a brand new car vs the cheapest one on the market.
On a deal that's being subsidized by the government via your tax bill, is only available to a small number of working people and varies in cost according to what tax band you are in.Cheapest Taycan on Autotrader is £67,500 and 3 year old, 58k on the clock. Private sale so limited / no warranty.
Assuming 4.9% interest, 50% depreciation and £7.5 deposit, my monthly payments would be £943. Insurance, tyres, servicing and warranty (or repairs) would all be my problem.
Brand new Taycan is £985 net cost through the work scheme, all costs covered and slight higher annual mileage (PCP calc only offered 10 or 15k? Company deal is 12k).
So for £42 a month more ( £1512 over 3 years) I get insurance, servicing, tyres etc and a brand new car vs the cheapest one on the market.
Of course it's cheaper, it's a benefit of your employment contract.
Pepperpots said:
None.
Remember, incentives gave us cities full of diesel
Gosh. Who wants cities full of EVs and cleaner air? What a terrible use of funds to incentivise people and companies to switch from diesels to EVs. Remember, incentives gave us cities full of diesel
A truly horrendous future awaits us as more people in cities ditch diesels.
I dread to think what it will be like in decades to come when people can walk down the street during rush hour without having to inhale all the toxic emissions from cars idling away.
As you say, completely wrong use of taxpayer funds.
Pepperpots said:
Clean air is great, maybe if they didn't subsidise all those diesels we'd have it?
Tax payers shouldn't subsidise private car sales is my point.
So just to clarify, are you against Salary sacrifice schemes in general (which also save money for employers and help retain staff as a perk) whether it's for a car, childcare vouchers, laptops, or a bicycle? Or are you only opposed to salary sacrifice for employer provided cars that may or may not be used for official business use?Tax payers shouldn't subsidise private car sales is my point.
Pepperpots said:
Tax payers shouldn't subsidise private car sales is my point.
I don't have a problem with that, but the same incentives should be available to everyone.And the leasing companies are absolutely creaming it with these deals - all they've got to do is make the deal for the user slighty better than is available on the open market.
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