Dealer: the Taycan was good for us; it's now a disaster
Discussion
Flying machine said:
Is this based on your experience as an owner of a new Taycan, or just internet conjecture? I've never had any problems booking cars in for service or repairs with Porsche, petrol or EV. IME I don't recognise no "lengthly (sic) delays to fit you in like they are doing you a favour, lack of parts, being without the car you have paid for for a long time". I am probably fortunate not to have suffered with the heater failure that some have - that does sound utterly miserable.
Everything is made to a budget, everywhere, Porsche being no different. Compared to the Tesla that I had before, the Taycan feels a much nicer car, as it should IMO as it cost a lot more.
Experience of Porsche ownership in general.Everything is made to a budget, everywhere, Porsche being no different. Compared to the Tesla that I had before, the Taycan feels a much nicer car, as it should IMO as it cost a lot more.
IME are worse than say BMW in terms of build, yet have some marketing magic where people who have never owned one think they are bullet proof. Just cheap parts with a good badge.
Comparing to a Tesla isn’t exactly high praise, you must be able to do better than that?
Benny Saltstein said:
Are there similar issues with the Etron GT in terms of reliability (actual or perceived) and residual values?
In spite of the lesser range, lack of charging infrastructure etc etc, the Taycan and Etron GT are the only EVs which would appeal when I decide to change out of my Model 3. Nothing else really appeals although I have a secret guilty appreciation of the iX.
It's a good question. It'd be interesting if the Audi contained Audi bits that work better and were tested properly. It's not like you need Porsche supposedly made out of unobtainium bits in an EV. The internet is not full of negativity around the Audi etron GT. It's possible that they learnt from the SUV (which has a good reputation from what I know) and carried some of the non-drivetrain stuff over. Like the heater. In spite of the lesser range, lack of charging infrastructure etc etc, the Taycan and Etron GT are the only EVs which would appeal when I decide to change out of my Model 3. Nothing else really appeals although I have a secret guilty appreciation of the iX.
m12nathan said:
Flying machine said:
Is this based on your experience as an owner of a new Taycan, or just internet conjecture? I've never had any problems booking cars in for service or repairs with Porsche, petrol or EV. IME I don't recognise no "lengthly (sic) delays to fit you in like they are doing you a favour, lack of parts, being without the car you have paid for for a long time". I am probably fortunate not to have suffered with the heater failure that some have - that does sound utterly miserable.
Everything is made to a budget, everywhere, Porsche being no different. Compared to the Tesla that I had before, the Taycan feels a much nicer car, as it should IMO as it cost a lot more.
Experience of Porsche ownership in general.Everything is made to a budget, everywhere, Porsche being no different. Compared to the Tesla that I had before, the Taycan feels a much nicer car, as it should IMO as it cost a lot more.
IME are worse than say BMW in terms of build, yet have some marketing magic where people who have never owned one think they are bullet proof. Just cheap parts with a good badge.
Comparing to a Tesla isn’t exactly high praise, you must be able to do better than that?
DMZ said:
Benny Saltstein said:
Are there similar issues with the Etron GT in terms of reliability (actual or perceived) and residual values?
In spite of the lesser range, lack of charging infrastructure etc etc, the Taycan and Etron GT are the only EVs which would appeal when I decide to change out of my Model 3. Nothing else really appeals although I have a secret guilty appreciation of the iX.
It's a good question. It'd be interesting if the Audi contained Audi bits that work better and were tested properly. It's not like you need Porsche supposedly made out of unobtainium bits in an EV. The internet is not full of negativity around the Audi etron GT. It's possible that they learnt from the SUV (which has a good reputation from what I know) and carried some of the non-drivetrain stuff over. Like the heater. In spite of the lesser range, lack of charging infrastructure etc etc, the Taycan and Etron GT are the only EVs which would appeal when I decide to change out of my Model 3. Nothing else really appeals although I have a secret guilty appreciation of the iX.
Flying machine said:
Fair enough, I am interested to hear about your ownership of which Porsche's in general though as you seem to think that they are all just cheap parts. Which models do/did you own? From new or old tatty examples? Not the Taycan presumably? As we are on a Taycan thread in the EV section I thought that this would be the relevant model to discuss, hence the Tesla comparison.
991.2 3 months old when I got it as missed the boat on ordering a new one and all the in stock new ones had sunroofs which I didn’t want, so not brand new but not tatty, had 1200 miles or something on it from OPC.
Pipes are all cheap brittle VW cost cutting things, open the bonnet too many times when it is cold and the pipe snaps and you have no washer jets (or washer jets that clean the inside of the boot)
Water pumps on 5th revision as it just fails over and over - Porsche have a 10 year warranty on it in the US, rest of world suck it up
Turbo failure at a year old, dealer too busy to look so just paid to sort it myself
Carplay - forward track button on steering wheel doesn’t work, same for every 991.2, dealership claim because they all do it it must be by design…
Windows don’t drop when it is cold outside so you can’t get in the car, if you get in then you cannot shut the door so end up sat with engine running for 15-20 mins before it warms up enough to close it without shattering window
Demist on screen is really slow
Just badly engineered and not properly tested IME. Drives well and is fast but their reputation as an engineering first company was based on earlier models and is no longer deserved.
Anyway - glad your Taycan is ok at least!
m12nathan said:
Flying machine said:
Fair enough, I am interested to hear about your ownership of which Porsche's in general though as you seem to think that they are all just cheap parts. Which models do/did you own? From new or old tatty examples? Not the Taycan presumably? As we are on a Taycan thread in the EV section I thought that this would be the relevant model to discuss, hence the Tesla comparison.
991.2 3 months old when I got it as missed the boat on ordering a new one and all the in stock new ones had sunroofs which I didn’t want, so not brand new but not tatty, had 1200 miles or something on it from OPC.
Pipes are all cheap brittle VW cost cutting things, open the bonnet too many times when it is cold and the pipe snaps and you have no washer jets (or washer jets that clean the inside of the boot)
Water pumps on 5th revision as it just fails over and over - Porsche have a 10 year warranty on it in the US, rest of world suck it up
Turbo failure at a year old, dealer too busy to look so just paid to sort it myself
Carplay - forward track button on steering wheel doesn’t work, same for every 991.2, dealership claim because they all do it it must be by design…
Windows don’t drop when it is cold outside so you can’t get in the car, if you get in then you cannot shut the door so end up sat with engine running for 15-20 mins before it warms up enough to close it without shattering window
Demist on screen is really slow
Just badly engineered and not properly tested IME. Drives well and is fast but their reputation as an engineering first company was based on earlier models and is no longer deserved.
Anyway - glad your Taycan is ok at least!
m12nathan said:
The poorest in society should not be subsidising the company owner buying a £160k car, getting 100% write down and then not paying BIK.
My view (and I appreciate there is no perfect solution) is that the EV tax breaks should exist to promote cleaner air but the value of the vehicles should be capped. If someone wants £160k car they do not need the tax payer to subsidise it. Someone buying an ID3 or whatever I am fine with - there just needs to be a limit as to how much money the tax payer should be spending on subsiding other people’s purchases.
How many low income workers have to pay tax for a full year so that one person can buy a Taycan Turbo S via their company?
If you want a £160k car then go and buy one, just don’t use public money that could be used for schooling, health etc to do so.
Can be bothered to do the maths but one company owner buying a Taycan Turbo S must cost the tax payer the equivalent of a fair few people using SS to buy a Cupra Born or model 3 etc. I believe the latter benefits society more for the same cost to the public.
Replace say 4 family cars with an EV that will be used daily or add a Taycan to a fleet of existing sports and GT cars? One of those will give us cleaner air than the other for the same money IMO.
Low income workers are not net contributors but net recipients. The tax breaks on EVs are being paid out of the net contributions of higher rate tax payers. It's command economics in order to build a free market on the back of higher income earners that can then benefit lower income earners. My view (and I appreciate there is no perfect solution) is that the EV tax breaks should exist to promote cleaner air but the value of the vehicles should be capped. If someone wants £160k car they do not need the tax payer to subsidise it. Someone buying an ID3 or whatever I am fine with - there just needs to be a limit as to how much money the tax payer should be spending on subsiding other people’s purchases.
How many low income workers have to pay tax for a full year so that one person can buy a Taycan Turbo S via their company?
If you want a £160k car then go and buy one, just don’t use public money that could be used for schooling, health etc to do so.
Can be bothered to do the maths but one company owner buying a Taycan Turbo S must cost the tax payer the equivalent of a fair few people using SS to buy a Cupra Born or model 3 etc. I believe the latter benefits society more for the same cost to the public.
Replace say 4 family cars with an EV that will be used daily or add a Taycan to a fleet of existing sports and GT cars? One of those will give us cleaner air than the other for the same money IMO.
DonkeyApple said:
Low income workers are not net contributors but net recipients. The tax breaks on EVs are being paid out of the net contributions of higher rate tax payers. It's command economics in order to build a free market on the back of higher income earners that can then benefit lower income earners.
Indeed. All these people posting here with allegations, opinions and plain jealousy, yet they don't even bother to examine the actual statistics when it comes to where most of the tax receipts in this country come from. "Income tax payments are concentrated amongst those with the largest incomes. The 10% of income taxpayers with the largest incomes contribute over 60% of income tax receipts."
"The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) – an economic think tank – has analysed how much households pay in tax. Their analysis – which covers around three quarters of tax revenues (including income tax, NICs, VAT, excise duties and council tax) – found that the 50% of households with the largest incomes contribute around 78% of taxes."
Source: Tax statistics published by the government on 16 Jan 2023
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brie...
Yup. I'm not a fan of subsidies such as this and I certainly believe that EVs could have been easily incentivised via credit solutions as a far smarter and less socially abrasive means as well as being less market distorting but as a means to an end, that end being to force the formation of a viable market, it's one being paid for by the correct section of society, those who can afford to do so.
As for dealers whinging, meh! Let the actual market find the value of the cars for a change. We can't have the price of used goods forever going up nor has the year 3 price manipulations by the manufacturers done anyone any favours. It's actually refreshing to potentially see values breaking from vendor control and free to find their true worth in a free market.
As for dealers whinging, meh! Let the actual market find the value of the cars for a change. We can't have the price of used goods forever going up nor has the year 3 price manipulations by the manufacturers done anyone any favours. It's actually refreshing to potentially see values breaking from vendor control and free to find their true worth in a free market.
I was fairly oblivious to Taycan woes, but a client has just been explaining the issues he's had. It's being handed back next week.
He's very friendly with the local dealer(s) and always gets to the front of the queue for a number of cars. The OPC have confirmed the Taycan really hasn't done them (and Porsche) any favours.
He's very friendly with the local dealer(s) and always gets to the front of the queue for a number of cars. The OPC have confirmed the Taycan really hasn't done them (and Porsche) any favours.
CABC said:
this is ver 1.0
they'll fix it and all will be forgotten in a few years. painful if you suffered, but a mere blip historically.
the bigger issue for all the Germans is that the Chinese really are coming - good price and good performance. there's going to be a shift in next 10 yrs.
People who can afford a Porsche would be unlikely to swop for a Chinese product. they'll fix it and all will be forgotten in a few years. painful if you suffered, but a mere blip historically.
the bigger issue for all the Germans is that the Chinese really are coming - good price and good performance. there's going to be a shift in next 10 yrs.
To a slightly less extent Mercedes and BMW are also very popular because of the Brand but maybe their loyalty will not be inelastic.
For people on or about average incomes the greater the competition the better.
DonkeyApple said:
Low income workers are not net contributors but net recipients. The tax breaks on EVs are being paid out of the net contributions of higher rate tax payers. It's command economics in order to build a free market on the back of higher income earners that can then benefit lower income earners.
Low income workers are indeed net recipients but there are several million workers on or slightly above average pay that are net contributors. It is inherently unfair that a vehicle over £100k should have any tax breaks attached to it. Where the exact number should be is difficult to assess but certainly over £40K there could be a sliding scale reducing the benefit.
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