Dealer: the Taycan was good for us; it's now a disaster
Discussion
alock said:
What am I missing here? Don't most normal cars lose 40-50% depreciation in their first 3 years?
Brand new Taycan 4S is £87k.
3 year old versions on Autotrader start around £70k.
That's 20%. Owners should be very happy.
I bet if dealers offered £45k and then listed them at £50k they'd fly out the door.
Thing is with the Taycan being a Porsche many if not most will have thousands of pounds worth of extras. Some which are to add stuff that comes as standard on cars much cheaper. So the realistic price of a new 4S is imho touching 100k. Brand new Taycan 4S is £87k.
3 year old versions on Autotrader start around £70k.
That's 20%. Owners should be very happy.
I bet if dealers offered £45k and then listed them at £50k they'd fly out the door.
Then used dealers in this sector also want more than £5k of margin. 10 or even 15k of margin is typical to cover the risk of the car sticking and needing to be discounted to move. Yes 40 to 45k of used buy back value would be more realistic but that’s not what the finance deals behind these assumed. Also little under a year ago you’d have to pay effective overs on a 6 to 12 month old used example. So there are used buyers that stand to take quite a hit when trying to move on two year old examples.
The market dynamics are completely distorted and unrealistic for new vs used.
Predicted residuals were IMHO based on much lower sales volumes of typical exec cars.
raspy said:
Pepperpots said:
None.
Remember, incentives gave us cities full of diesel
Gosh. Who wants cities full of EVs and cleaner air? What a terrible use of funds to incentivise people and companies to switch from diesels to EVs. Remember, incentives gave us cities full of diesel
A truly horrendous future awaits us as more people in cities ditch diesels.
I dread to think what it will be like in decades to come when people can walk down the street during rush hour without having to inhale all the toxic emissions from cars idling away.
As you say, completely wrong use of taxpayer funds.
TX.
survivalist said:
As I understand it, it’s a tax related benefit being offered by the government. It’s just especially beneficial because I’m a higher rate tax payer.
I do think that salary sacrifice and low BIK rates for company car users are the major force driving new EV purchases. I don’t know anyone who’s spent their own money on an EV, everyone is getting them ‘cheap’ using these schemes.
I am not saying that low bik isn’t a very significant driving force, but I know quite a lot of EV drivers who have bought (or rented) the cars personally. Some new, some used. So it definitely isn’t “everyone” getting tax relief on their EV. Some personal friends, quite a lot of people I have encountered in various Ev forums / Facebook groups I do think that salary sacrifice and low BIK rates for company car users are the major force driving new EV purchases. I don’t know anyone who’s spent their own money on an EV, everyone is getting them ‘cheap’ using these schemes.
Pflanzgarten said:
I thought EVs needed to be new or demonstrators to be bought via the company car scheme? Or was that only for the 100% tax write down?
It certainly has to be when I bought one through my Ltd company.
If so, I understand the depression of second hand values a bit due to that.
For the 100% write down that's correct, but when you dispose of the vehicle, whether bought new or used, a balancing calculation is made that reduces the actual CT offset to be whatever value the vehicle actually depreciated by.It certainly has to be when I bought one through my Ltd company.
If so, I understand the depression of second hand values a bit due to that.
So buy a new £100k car, you can I think put it's full value down against CT. Sell it 3 years later for £60k, and a balancing adjustment is made and, unless you buy another new car, the CT on the £60k would become due. So it's essentially an exercise in kicking the can along the street - it's a tax delay, not saving.
If you buy the same car at 3 years old, instead of 100% you get, I think, 25% year one then 18% each year until you dispose of it, and again you then make a balancing calculation so that the CT offset represents the actual depreciation during the period of ownership.
BIK is the real tax saving and that applies however the car is bought/leased.
TheDeuce said:
Pflanzgarten said:
I thought EVs needed to be new or demonstrators to be bought via the company car scheme? Or was that only for the 100% tax write down?
It certainly has to be when I bought one through my Ltd company.
If so, I understand the depression of second hand values a bit due to that.
For the 100% write down that's correct, but when you dispose of the vehicle, whether bought new or used, a balancing calculation is made that reduces the actual CT offset to be whatever value the vehicle actually depreciated by.It certainly has to be when I bought one through my Ltd company.
If so, I understand the depression of second hand values a bit due to that.
So buy a new £100k car, you can I think put it's full value down against CT. Sell it 3 years later for £60k, and a balancing adjustment is made and, unless you buy another new car, the CT on the £60k would become due. So it's essentially an exercise in kicking the can along the street - it's a tax delay, not saving.
If you buy the same car at 3 years old, instead of 100% you get, I think, 25% year one then 18% each year until you dispose of it, and again you then make a balancing calculation so that the CT offset represents the actual depreciation during the period of ownership.
BIK is the real tax saving and that applies however the car is bought/leased.
If it stays reliable, I can’t see us ever “selling” it. If the BIK rules change we’ll simply sell it to ourselves and run it privately as the other on going costs are so low.
We can luckily run a commercial pick up truck alongside it in our game so that’s two family vehicles run through the company for buttons.
Just a real shame we can’t get the Ineos Grenadier through the books as a commercial otherwise I’d have one of those too.
anonymous said:
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Exactly, and Salary Sacrifice only works for the well paid. Wife used to work part time and her pension contribution was normally SS, in weeks she didn’t work enough hours it took her under the cutoff and was a standard deduction which meant she paid more NI and was worse off.IJWS15 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Exactly, and Salary Sacrifice only works for the well paid. Wife used to work part time and her pension contribution was normally SS, in weeks she didn’t work enough hours it took her under the cutoff and was a standard deduction which meant she paid more NI and was worse off.As an example 4 x £30k earners will pay a combined £20k in tax over a year. 1 x £120k earner will pay £45k in tax over the same period.
SWoll said:
The counter argument would be that the poorest in society aren't subsiding anything, it's the high earners who are subsidising them with tax contributions that far outweigh what they take out of the system over the same period?
As an example 4 x £30k earners will pay a combined £20k in tax over a year. 1 x £120k earner will pay £45k in tax over the same period.
Maybe. As an example 4 x £30k earners will pay a combined £20k in tax over a year. 1 x £120k earner will pay £45k in tax over the same period.
Or perhaps that 120k earner might be stuffing a pension via salsac for other tax-efficient benefits, taking a R2W bike, etc
It seems unfair but I’m not sure it’s a zero sum game.
The money used to lease an Taycan would otherwise probably not be taxed as income but diverted to other tax efficient ways of remuneration. At least this way brings some social good.
The unfairness if there is any is the different way that income from employment, investments, share options and dividends etc are treated by the tax system. That’s a far bigger issue than just a few pricy EVs
The money used to lease an Taycan would otherwise probably not be taxed as income but diverted to other tax efficient ways of remuneration. At least this way brings some social good.
The unfairness if there is any is the different way that income from employment, investments, share options and dividends etc are treated by the tax system. That’s a far bigger issue than just a few pricy EVs
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You seem to misundertand the tax benefits on EVs, as the government/ poor people aren't subsidising company cars. The company buys/leases/PCPs the car at full price and then like a company ICE car purchase, can offset the depreciation against the company's profits and hence corporation tax. Nothing new here and no poor people are involved.
The driver of a company car then pays income tax on the benefit in kind. Because BiK tax on company cars had become so high in this country, there were virtually no company cars anymore, so I believe very little car BIK tax was being collected.
Then the government introduced the zero and now 2% BiK rate for EVs. Given the subsequent massive increase in company cars, the government I would imagine is getting at least as much if not far more BiK tax than previously. So again, no poor people subsidising £160k Taycans.
This enormous number of ex-company EVs are now starting to leave company fleets and appear on the second hand market. Given the sheer volume of them, they depreciate and become affordable to many others who don't have access to company car. The £160k Taycan will then be sold on for far less and the company will pay for the depreciation, in one form or another, not any poor people.
So, the poorest in society are not subsidising £160k Taycans or any other EV as companies are paying full price for them out of their profits, their employees are paying more tax and as has been well reported on here, EVs are becoming more and more affordable.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Society is better off keeping the tiny percentage of people earning £120k+ happy and productive in the face of an ever increasing tax burden. They do in the most part contribute significantly more to society from a financial perspective than low earners so offering additional incentives to continue doing so is a good idea and something the government are well aware of. Keep squeezing them for more and they'll just bugger off to somewhere that is more appreciative of their contribution, as is already happening at the moment in many industries.Pflanzgarten said:
God forbid there’s any reward for working hard and being successful.
Some of the hardest working people are very successful in their careers but will never ever be able to afford a brand new taycanBut having said that they could save your life because of their hard work and success
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