Are EV cars anti consumerism?

[Zero Fuchs]

mickythefish said:

Modern cars aren't made to last 10 years so I highly doubt it tbh.

Given the average age of cars in the UK is 10 years, I suspect your statement is incorrect.

[Chris Peacock]

mickythefish said:

Modern cars aren't made to last 10 years so I highly doubt it tbh.

That's quite a claim, based on what?

[GT9]

Caddyshack said:

I think that batteries will not fail in a linear fashion such as 2% per x years. They will possibly drop like a stone at some point. I am trying to check but my EV battery has had a sudden drop. It is now 12 yrs old and was showing very little signs. It may just be a cell causing issues but the drop is quite dramatic.

I'm inclined to agree that a first generation 2012 battery will probably fall off it's plateau at some point.
An indication of the mileage it's done so far would be useful, is it a Leaf or a Tesla?
A battery manufactured in 2020 won't necessarily exhibit the same behaviour.

[Kermit power]

mickythefish said:

If you get an EV car, not many moving parts, only issues seem to be battery. Electricity used to power them is becoming more substance.

So why would there be a need to keep replacing them?

Also won't all cars end up just being the same?

Electric motor and battery just different user interfaces and tech? Is the car industry going to change forever?

If my experience of testing a Skoda Enyaq, VW ID.7 and Ford Explorer which are all on the same platform is anything to go by, then no, they're not all going to end up the same. They felt very, very different to drive.

[Caddyshack]

GT9 said:

Caddyshack said:

I think that batteries will not fail in a linear fashion such as 2% per x years. They will possibly drop like a stone at some point. I am trying to check but my EV battery has had a sudden drop. It is now 12 yrs old and was showing very little signs. It may just be a cell causing issues but the drop is quite dramatic.

I'm inclined to agree that a first generation 2012 battery will probably fall off it's plateau at some point.
An indication of the mileage it's done so far would be useful, is it a Leaf or a Tesla?
A battery manufactured in 2020 won't necessarily exhibit the same behaviour.

Twizy…about 15,000 miles which is nothing for a battery but it’s a lot of cycles when you have 40-50 miles to a charge. I suspect cycles and age are the issue.

Has much changed from a 2012 to 2020 battery tech in terms of longevity behaviour?

[blueacid]

RizzoTheRat said:

mickythefish said:

I actually love EVs, but would rather see lighter ones covered in solar panels that need minimal electricity off the grid to run.

A big car is what, 5m x 2m? Bright sunlight is about 1000W/M^2, but current panels are around 20% efficient, so potentially a car sized solar panel can generate about 2kW in bright sunlight. Modern EV's do about 3.5 miles per kWh, call it 4 for a lightweight one with minimal batteries as it's relying on the solar power. I make that about 8 miles range per hour of full sunshine. Actually better than thought.

True - but if you're buying 10m^2 of solar, it's far wiser to put that on a good roof than to put it on a car which might be parked in the shade of surrounding buildings / trees / garage roof / etc.

If the car battery is full, you then squander whatever power is generated (outwith running the A/C perhaps?)

Given how solar panels look, and the change to glass rather than painted metal, you've got challenging looks, the task of keeping it clean / damage free, and inferior insolation compared to putting them on a building.

I think this is the same conclusion a number of car makers have reached; the only solar panels on cars I can think of was the early Nissan Leaf, and the Audi A8; both of which used them just to power the climate control blower in direct sun, to take the edge off the cabin temperature. I'd imagine in the early days of EVs, with 20-30kWh batteries, the impact of a solar panel on range was seriously considered - I'm guessing it got dismissed for similar reasons. Now that you can get 250+ mile ranges, adding 5-10 miles on a peak sunny day is likely not worth the effort.

Whataguy said:

There will definitely be a need to keep replacing them due to the batteries.

The warranty is generally 8 years/100k miles and as I do 25k miles a year that’s only 4 years - the same as my current hybrid Toyota Corolla.

Yes, you can usually get longer than the warranty out of a battery pack but it’s a gamble that writes the car off completely when it fails. You can even refurbish the packs, but you are playing whack a mole as the other cells are just as old/used as the ones that have failed so not something I’d do.

There will also be people changing as better batteries/faster charging/longer range come out. Plus people changing as their needs change - sports car to SUV, etc.

Does it write it off completely? This is quite similar to ICE engine faults; within warranty a new engine / entire new traction battery might be the route a dealer takes.

But out of warranty, now it's worth digging deeper and doing a component-level repair. EV batteries are pretty dumb; largely they're made up of several tens of identical 'bricks'. If one of those fails, it can drag the whole pack down. by replacing just that one brick, the pack is good to go.
So a crashed EV with an unharmed battery could repair, say, 40 other packs, for a fraction of the cost of a new battery.

[off_again]

Kermit power said:

If my experience of testing a Skoda Enyaq, VW ID.7 and Ford Explorer which are all on the same platform is anything to go by, then no, they're not all going to end up the same. They felt very, very different to drive.

Manufacturers and brands know where they fit and sell to a market. As a result, they feel different, are different to drive and more. I totally agree though - we are heading into a new way of doing things. Ok, so a lot of this will be in software I guess, but it doesnt stop the final tuning to be very different. I cant drive an Explorer EV as its not coming to the US, but from all of the reviews, Ford has done a great job in the final suspension setup etc.

Shared powertrains have been around for years and its fair to say that an Aston with the AMG V8 feels very different to any Mercedes with the same engine. But thats OK, how we engineer everything else looks to be very interesting to me. I cant wait to see what the engineers can come up with going forward. The future might be different, but from my view, its looking positive.